Tory campaign chief throws down fall-election gauntlet

[Moonbox]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-campaign-chief-throws-down-fall-election-gauntlet/article1633200/

They're going to keep trying and trying until they get the majority. If it wasn't for Ignatief being such an unprincipled joke, I would say it's about time we got Harper out of office.

The clauses the Conservatives are trying to include the budget bill are as follows:

open overseas mail delivery to privatization, weaken environmental assessment, and facilitate the selloff of power division of Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd

I can't see why any of them need to be in the budget and frankly I'm pretty appalled that the Conservatives would want to turn this into a confidence motion. Here's why we need a Senate it seems.

[M.Dancer]

While I would hesitate to sell off Canada Post, I think their monopoly on domestic mail delivery, and laws that prevent private competition in that area should be abolished...

Whether speeding up environmental assessment actually means weakening it is a question of whether it is cutting red tape or actually limiting the due diligence aspect of the assessment...and selling of AEC ..go for it.

[Moonbox]

While I would hesitate to sell off Canada Post, I think their monopoly on domestic mail delivery, and laws that prevent private competition in that area should be abolished...

Whether speeding up environmental assessment actually means weakening it is a question of whether it is cutting red tape or actually limiting the due diligence aspect of the assessment...and selling of AEC ..go for it.

Is any of this confidence material though, to be included in a budget bill?

[M.Dancer]

Is any of this confidence material though, to be included in a budget bill?

Yes and No....but things like selling parts of canada post, the AECL would be in a budget bill...stream lining environmental assessments should not.

[August1991]

I think that this is the motivating factor:

Canada’s Liberal Party has the least support among voters since Michael Ignatieff took over as leader in December 2008, an EKOS Research Associates poll found.

Some 23.9 percent of voters back the Liberals, down from 27.7 percent in a poll EKOS released June 24. The governing Conservatives led by Prime Minister Stephen Harper picked up the lost Liberal support, rising to 34.4 percent in today’s poll from 31 percent last month.

Bloomberg

When were the Liberals last at 23.9% in any poll?

[Moonbox]

I think that's no secret August.

[M.Dancer]

I think that this is the motivating factor:Bloomberg

When were the Liberals last at 23.9% in any poll?

Read this...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-skeptical-of-their-own-10-point-lead/article1632934/

[ToadBrother]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-campaign-chief-throws-down-fall-election-gauntlet/article1633200/

They're going to keep trying and trying until they get the majority. If it wasn't for Ignatief being such an unprincipled joke, I would say it's about time we got Harper out of office.

The clauses the Conservatives are trying to include the budget bill are as follows:

open overseas mail delivery to privatization, weaken environmental assessment, and facilitate the selloff of power division of Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd

I can't see why any of them need to be in the budget and frankly I'm pretty appalled that the Conservatives would want to turn this into a confidence motion. Here's why we need a Senate it seems.

Unless the Liberals make up lost ground this summer in the polls, the Conservatives could probably get away with naming Stephen Harper Herr Chancellor and decreeing every second Tuesday in March "Kick an Iggy Day".

I'm sure they wouldn't mind testing the waters of an election, or alternatively, being able to act like a majority because the Liberals are too frightened to pull the plug. Only one person to blame, Iggy. He's been a disaster area. I'm sure Bob Rae is sharpening his knife as we speak.

[August1991]

Read this...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-skeptical-of-their-own-10-point-lead/article1632934/

From the link:

In talking points sent to party members Thursday, the Conservatives said:

A recent opinion poll purports to show a 10-point gap between the Conservatives and Liberals.

As you know, we never comment publicly on polling.

While we do hold a lead over the Liberals, Caucus members should be aware that a 10-point lead is inconsistent with the findings of other pollsters and our own, internal assessments.

Morris, it's not the 10 point lead. It's the fact that the Tories are only at 34.4%.

This is unprecedented. Canadians, across the country, are loudly saying "NONE OF THE ABOVE".

----

As far as I'm concerned, not only Ignatieff should be looking at career alternatives. Harper himself should too.

Moreover, Layton, Duceppe and May should not revel in any supposed support. Canada's two main parties have never had such mediocre leaders - or leaders less able to connect with the voting public.

It is ironic that in an era when mass communication is so much easier, we have leaders in Canada who cannot communicate.

[Moonbox]

I'm sure Bob Rae is sharpening his knife as we speak.

He'd be even worse than Iggy. The man is like acid on the lips of most people in Ontario. He's the worst premier we've ever had.

[Wild Bill]

He'd be even worse than Iggy. The man is like acid on the lips of most people in Ontario. He's the worst premier we've ever had.

Absolutely! If Bob Rae became Liberal party leader, it's entirely possible that Ontario might give Harper his majority!

[Jack Weber]

Absolutely! If Bob Rae became Liberal party leader, it's entirely possible that Ontario might give Harper his majority!

I agree!!!

That's why I think the "braintrust" in the Liberal partt will want to stay away from him.Plus,he does'nt fit the federal Liberal leader MO...If things go to historical form,the next leader will be French...

[August1991]

Absolutely! If Bob Rae became Liberal party leader, it's entirely possible that Ontario might give Harper his majority!

Wild Bill, I wonder.

Bob Rae can communicate, he can connect in both French and English; Stephen Harper cannot.

----

Years ago, I thought that Harper could go above the media to reach ordinary Canadians (in Quebec or English Canada) but in the past few months, I have realized that Harper cannot. Harper's a lousy communicator, and so is Ignatieff.

I won't go into Harper's weakness in French Canada, and instead, I'll just note how Harper has failed/avoided to explain this $1 billion G8-G20 summit in Ontario.

---

We voters are all busy and we elect politicians to choose, and explain their choices. In this, Harper and Ignatieff both are failures. Harper has not explained why he chose as he did.

Like many Canadians, I gave Harper a chance. He has maybe one more chance to explain.

To me, Harper is a Mackenzie King style politician. In the 21st century, Harper is an intellectual Karl Rove - not a glad-handing, zillion personal-friends Mulroney PM. IMV, Harper should be behind the scenes, not front and centre.

As a fiscal conservative voter in Quebec, I don't want some incompetent public speaker, a Stephen Harper, explaining my point of view to other Canadians, other Quebecers.

At best, I would like someone from English Canada who can communicate. Harper is not that person. Someone from Quebec, acceptable in English Canada, fine with me.

I want someone who can speak clearly to all Canadians, gain their trust, and reduce government spending, regulation, taxes.

Is that too much to ask for?

Edited July 8, 2010 by August1991

[Jack Weber]

Wild Bill, I wonder.

Bob Rae can communicate, he can connect in both French and English; Stephen Harper cannot.

----

I thought that Harper could go above the media to reach ordinary Canadians (in Quebec or English Canada) but in the past few months, I have realized that Harper cannot. Harper's a lousy communicator, and so is Ignatieff.

I won't go into Harper's weakness in French Canada, and instead, I'll just note how Harper has failed/avoided to explain this $1 billion G8-G20 summit in Ontario.

We voters are all busy and we elect politicians to choose, and explain their choices. Harper and Ignatieff both are failures. Harper has not explained why he chose as he did.

Like many Canadians, I gave him a chance. He has maybe one more chance to explain. To me, Harper is a Mackenzie King style politician. In the 21st century, Harper is an intellectual Karl Rove - not a glad-handing, zillion personal-friends Mulroney PM.

Rae is nuclear waste in Ontario.In fact,Rae and Mike Harris are polar opposites but eleicit the same reaction...Both have a small group who actually think they might be electable.Most people find them equally detestable...

[Wild Bill]

Wild Bill, I wonder.

Bob Rae can communicate, he can connect in both French and English; Stephen Harper cannot.

As a fiscal conservative voter in Quebec, I don't want some incompetent public speaker, a Stephen Harper, explaining my point of view to other Canadians, other Quebecers.

At best, I would like someone from English Canada who can communicate. Harper is not that person. Someone from Quebec, acceptable in English Canada, fine with me.

I want someone who can speak clearly to all Canadians, gain their trust, and reduce government spending, regulation, taxes.

Is that too much to ask for?

August, you've missed the point. It doesn't matter if Rae looks better to Quebecers. He still looks AWFUL to those voters in Ontario!

Unless the day comes when a party only has to do well in Quebec to form the government the Liberals could never win with Bob Rare. If he got two seats in Ontario I would be amazed!

Bless your heart, you remind me of when Charest was still in the PCs, some years ago. I was working as a resident salesman for a big American distributor, answering to a sales office in Pointe Claire, Quebec. One summer week I was at an office party where the rest of the sales staff and I got the chance to drink beer and shoot the breeze. Talk turned to politics and how the PCs had been all but destroyed, with only Charest and another MP left. All the other salesfolk were francophone Quebecers and ALL of them loved Charest! However, NONE of them would vote for him! They saw their choices as Liberal or BQ, seulement!

So they figured that all of us in Anglo Canada should vote for him!

I love my Quebecois friends deeply but I find that they are so introverted they just are incapable of seeing the big picture across the country, outside of the borders of Quebec. You just did it yourself, thinking in terms of Bob being a more attractive choice for Quebec when the issue was his terrible legacy in Ontario. Your head is more than intelligent enough to understand things when they are pointed out, but your gut just seems to blind you from seeing such things on your own.

If Rae becomes the Liberal party leader Harper will treat his caucus to a 3 day shindig, complete with fireworks!

[Shakeyhands]

I think you guys may be off on how Rae will be received in Ontario. The people who wouldn't vote for him are the same ones that will vote for a Harper led CPC candidate. I believe those that are Liberal will welcome him as leader and he is sure to bring some centrist NDP backers along as well.

All bets are off though until a debate between Harper and Rae, I think we all know what would happen there.

[Moonbox]

I think you guys may be off on how Rae will be received in Ontario. The people who wouldn't vote for him are the same ones that will vote for a Harper led CPC candidate. I believe those that are Liberal will welcome him as leader and he is sure to bring some centrist NDP backers along as well.

All bets are off though until a debate between Harper and Rae, I think we all know what would happen there.

Look at the NDP's results in the last few provincial elections. Rae alienated the left, right and centre when he was premier. He overspent and ran the biggest deficits Ontario has ever seen. At the same time, he pissed off the unions and lost the NDP's traditional base as well.

I've met the man in person and he's VERY intelligent and VERY personable, but he has a terrible legacy and the CPC would have the easy time in the world turning Ontario against him. His record speaks to his politics.

[Alta4ever]

decreeing every second Tuesday in March "Kick an Iggy Day".

Thats a great idea, might be time to start up a new novelty facebook page.

[capricorn]

If things go to historical form,the next leader will be French...

You see, Jack, this is where the Liberal Party has gone wrong. This French/English rotation business may have been a good thing in the last century. But the country has moved on, demographics have changed, and the Liberal Party has not kept up. Forget about trying to please both the English and French factions. Just go with the best leader for the times that can connect with the majority of Canadians regardless of language.

[Keepitsimple]

The Liberals are hamstrung by their party's constitution. They cannot get rid of Ignatieff unless he resigns or loses an election. Many (most?) in the party and the shadowy backgrooms want him gone. The party may end up having to pull the plug on the government and lose the ensuing election simply to get rid of this boat-anchor - rather than struggle on for the next three years, passing Conservative budget after Conservative budget.

[Jack Weber]

You see, Jack, this is where the Liberal Party has gone wrong. This French/English rotation business may have been a good thing in the last century. But the country has moved on, demographics have changed, and the Liberal Party has not kept up. Forget about trying to please both the English and French factions. Just go with the best leader for the times that can connect with the majority of Canadians regardless of language.

I agree...

Ironically,the best guy for the job right now,at least to me,is Dominic LeBlanc...

So,things would hold true to form if he were to become leader,but in this case,it would probably work out better for them...

[ToadBrother]

You see, Jack, this is where the Liberal Party has gone wrong. This French/English rotation business may have been a good thing in the last century. But the country has moved on, demographics have changed, and the Liberal Party has not kept up. Forget about trying to please both the English and French factions. Just go with the best leader for the times that can connect with the majority of Canadians regardless of language.

Which explains why we've had three minority governments in a row.

[nicky10013]

The Liberals are hamstrung by their party's constitution. They cannot get rid of Ignatieff unless he resigns or loses an election. Many (most?) in the party and the shadowy backgrooms want him gone. The party may end up having to pull the plug on the government and lose the ensuing election simply to get rid of this boat-anchor - rather than struggle on for the next three years, passing Conservative budget after Conservative budget.

I disagree that things are as bad as they look. As someone mentioned above, right now Canadians are chosing the none-of-the-above option. There are a LOT of undecided voters which could certainly sway an election either way. The CPC was doing worse in the polls vis-a-vis the Liberals when they were elected than the Liberals are now. That being said it could still be a disaster. That's just the nature of politics.

What about the elephant in the room? What does the CPC do with Harper if he can't win a majority after 3 kicks at the can with leaders of the Liberal Party which the CPC claims are progressively weaker? I've said it before and I'll say it again, the log jam in Canadian politics today isn't the Liberals or the Conservatives, it's Harper himself. He'll always have the 30% of his base that will vote for him no matter what but he isn't moderate enough to really steal Liberal votes. Once he's gone, there's a majority. Which party it will be is dependent on who the CPC picks as their leader.

Edited July 9, 2010 by nicky10013

[Remiel]

I think it would be incredibly stupid for the Liberals to ditch Ignatieff without an election first. It would merely be a demonstration of even greater weakness.

[Keepitsimple]

What about the elephant in the room? What does the CPC do with Harper if he can't win a majority after 3 kicks at the can with leaders of the Liberal Party which the CPC claims are progressively weaker? I've said it before and I'll say it again, the log jam in Canadian politics today isn't the Liberals or the Conservatives, it's Harper himself. He'll always have the 30% of his base that will vote for him no matter what but he isn't moderate enough to really steal Liberal votes. Once he's gone, there's a majority. Which party it will be is dependent on who the CPC picks as their leader.

The elephant only exists in the minds of wishful opponents. The longer Harper stays as PM, the more comfortable Canadians will become (or not) with the path of the Conservatives. Conservatives will gladly take a few more minority governments. There hasn't been one squeak about Harper's leadership and as much as his antagonists try to paint him as a control freak, internally, there is very much a team at work. The "control freak" accusation is nothing more than party discipline that minimizes the media's ability to get their "gotcha" sensationalist headlines, try as they will. Staying "on message".