bjre Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 (edited) Police actions questioned following G20 weekend Jesse Rosenfeld, a Canadian activist freelance journalist, was on assignment for The Guardian when he was arrested Saturday night.Steve Paikin, host of the Agenda on TVO, witnessed the arrest and reported that Rosenfeld was punched in the stomach and then elbowed in the back when he was doubled over. Two Reuters photographers were arrested Sunday night while covering a protest near Queen West and Spadina, despite wearing prominent media badges. They were released without charges. Two National Post photographers, Brett Gundlock and Colin O'Connor, were arrested Saturday while attempting to photograph police clashing with protesters. They spent about 24 hours in custody and were both charged with obstruct peace officer and unlawful assembly. A CTV producer was also arrested and released without charge on the weekend. Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair told CTV News Channel that reporters would be arrested if they did not disperse with the protesters they were covering. "We asked the innocent to leave three times and they chose not, and if a tourist, or even a reporter, chooses to remain in that crowd . . . then they had to deal with the consequences of being detained," he said. ‘I will not forget what they have done to me’ Lulu Maxwell, 17, Grade 12, Rosedale HeightsMaxwell and a friend were hanging around near Queen and Dufferin Sts. at a convergence centre for protesters on Sunday afternoon when police started making arrests. “My friend was blowing bubbles and I was scribbling peace signs on the sidewalk.” Within minutes, her friend was grabbed and Lulu was put up against a wall. Her backpack was searched and Lulu says an officer said she could be charged with possession of dangerous weapons “because I had eyewash solution in my backpack.” She was taken to the detention centre and almost 12 hours after her arrest was allowed to call her parents. She was released, without charges being laid, at 5 a. m. Selwyn Firth, 59, Toronto mayoral candidate Wanting a better view of a protest outside Queen’s Park on Saturday, Firth walked to an elevated U of T building. When police told him to leave, he identified himself as a mayoral candidate. He refused and was forced to the ground, his cheek lacerated. He was arrested for obstruction. “I wasn’t obstructing anyone, I was asking questions,” said Firth, who was taken to the Eastern Ave. detention centre where he needed insulin for his Type 1 diabetes. Sunday morning he was taken to the Finch Ave., courthouse and again needed insulin, so was sent to hospital. He later returned to court and was released on $1,000 bail. He is considering suing the city and police. Cameron Fenton, 24, journalist with Dominion in Montreal “A bunch of us were peacefully protesting (near the Eastern Ave. detention centre) at about 2:30 a.m. when police told us that it was an unlawful assembly and we had to leave,” said Fenton. But they were boxed in and couldn’t leave. Some time later, about 30 of them were walking about two blocks away when they were boxed in again by police. Everyone was arrested. Fenton said he was never read his legal rights or allowed to make a phone call. “It was cold, there was barely any food or water… there was no place in the cages to even sit,” he said Monday. “That detention centre was tantamount to torture.” He was released on Sunday afternoon, after more than 17 hours in detention. Outraged protesters rally against police about 1,000 people rallied against alleged police brutality and the detention of people without charge during the G20 summit.The crowd buzzed with talk of conditions in the Eastern Ave. detention centre: cramped and filthy cells, mismanagement and disorganized paperwork, lack of food, water and toilet paper, and denial of legal aid and access to lawyers. Taylor Flook said she spent almost 24 hours in detention before being released without charge and witnessed strip searches of women by male officers, as well as sexist remarks made by several officers. She described being in a cell with a 17-year-old girl who had to urinate in front of male officers because there were no doors for the portable toilets at the makeshift jail. You can see clearly that your "human rights" and "freedom" is something that some people can take away from you as they like. "eyewash solution" is dangerous weapons, same as Robert Dziekański's Stapler, what else can not be a dangerous weapon? why police don't list all objects that can be "dangerous weapons" and out-law everything. It is very clear that make so many laws make it very easy for the cops to pick from when need to attack you when they like. Edited June 29, 2010 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
Shwa Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 (edited) It is very clear that make so many laws make it very easy for the cops to pick from when need to attack you when they like. That is a somewhat specious position isn't it? Ascribing the rights and freedoms of a group of people in a few blocks of a city in a sensitive situation as the rights and freedoms of all the rest of the people who were/are not within those few blocks? Perhaps it would be better for you to compare downtown Toronto during the G20 with, I dunno, say Tiananmen Square in Beijing in 1989. Or would such a comparison seem unfair to you? Edited June 29, 2010 by Shwa Quote
Mr.Canada Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 People need to listen to the police. If they do not, they suffer the consequences. Journalists are not perfect human beings and I certainly don't put them atop the pedestal as you do. Police in a riot situation don't have are given orders which everyone must follow. People are screaming and yelling and it's impossible to have a conversation. Police yell get back! That's what they expect to see if they don't they take it to the next level. Any journalist should know better. Instead of constantly deriding our Police officers why not trying to put yourself in their position and see what they go through. Police can grab anyone on the street under suspicion and hold them for 24 hours without charge. The public must listen when the police give a command to them, if they don't it's called obstruction of justice. Go look it up. I don't know what you guys think jail and prison is like but it isn't a pleasure cruise. What a bunch of babies crying about the conditions. It's called jail. One day ask anyone who's been in the tombs at any courthouse waiting for an appearance, it's filthy and disgusting and in jail there are no doors on any washroom so you have to do your business in front of men, women, everyone who happens by. It's called jail. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Keepitsimple Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 It's very telling that our media has not run one story that shows these protests from the point of view of individual policeman - where are the interviews with them so we can hear what it's like to be pushed, spat upon, sworn at and humiliated? Quote Back to Basics
madmax Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 It's very telling that our media has not run one story that shows these protests from the point of view of individual policeman - where are the interviews with them so we can hear what it's like to be pushed, spat upon, sworn at and humiliated? Dang that National post and its one sided opinion LOL. I think you have a great idea and there should be a story because what you have described is real and happens. It is no less of a story then a 17 year old girl drawing on the sidewalk and taking a club to the head. The Police are put in a very difficult situation. A no win situation, and they do their jobs as best they can under the circumstances. Things have progressed and luckily its not as bad as the past when peaceful protests could lead to 4 dead in ohio..... Quote
Shakeyhands Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 (edited) It's very telling that our media has not run one story that shows these protests from the point of view of individual policeman - where are the interviews with them so we can hear what it's like to be pushed, spat upon, sworn at and humiliated? Just like those Viet Nam boys eh KiS. I'd be interested to hear those storys too. Poor guys, sworn at... terrible. I think there are bound to be lots more whose rights were violated from the other side of the protest. Read what is being said by them, then see how you feel about it. Failing to be able to seperate those actually doing damage is telling, especially with so many police there. Seems they didn't do their jobs very well and took the lazy route. $900 Million indeed. Edited June 29, 2010 by Shakeyhands Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Army Guy Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 (edited) You can see clearly that your "human rights" and "freedom" is something that some people can take away from you as they like. I think it's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee...all your rights and freedoms have limitations. All you've done since you have moved here to Canada is bitched and whined about how you where fooled into thinking Canada was better than mother China....And now spend every waking moment complaining and voicing that opinion....try that in China with out getting a vist from the government....] Besides i don't recall the protest being broken up with heavy armoured vehs and machine gun fire, can China say the same thing.... It is very clear that make so many laws make it very easy for the cops to pick from when need to attack you when they like. Strong words , but they lack any evidence, and yet the police quote this.... "We asked the innocent to leave three times and they chose not, and if a tourist, or even a reporter, chooses to remain in that crowd . . . then they had to deal with the consequences of being detained," he said. Shit even in most of the examples you quote from those mistreated people quote the same....the police asked them to leave....when they refused Bamm....look at that they arrested my ass.....so whats it take to get people to move on, to leave a written memo...a bull horn, a translator because perhaps they don't understand english.... The only charge that i can see that violated any rights is proabley this one if it can be proved.... Taylor Flook said she spent almost 24 hours in detention before being released without charge and witnessed strip searches of women by male officers, as well as sexist remarks made by several officers. This can only happen in exceptional cases, shit this even applies to us in combat... Edited June 29, 2010 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Shakeyhands Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 People need to listen to the police. If they do not, they suffer the consequences. Journalists are not perfect human beings and I certainly don't put them atop the pedestal as you do. Police in a riot situation don't have are given orders which everyone must follow. People are screaming and yelling and it's impossible to have a conversation. Police yell get back! That's what they expect to see if they don't they take it to the next level. Any journalist should know better. Instead of constantly deriding our Police officers why not trying to put yourself in their position and see what they go through. Police can grab anyone on the street under suspicion and hold them for 24 hours without charge. The public must listen when the police give a command to them, if they don't it's called obstruction of justice. Go look it up. I don't know what you guys think jail and prison is like but it isn't a pleasure cruise. What a bunch of babies crying about the conditions. It's called jail. One day ask anyone who's been in the tombs at any courthouse waiting for an appearance, it's filthy and disgusting and in jail there are no doors on any washroom so you have to do your business in front of men, women, everyone who happens by. It's called jail. This whole post is assinine. I especially find the comment about the press telling. Journalists are there to cover the news, with proper accredation, they should not have been rounded up with everyone else. You would be happy to live in a country with absolutely no freedoms wouldn't you. Where were you in jail again tough guy? Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Shakeyhands Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 Shit even in most of the examples you quote from those mistreated people quote the same....the police asked them to leave....when they refused Bamm....look at that they arrested my ass.....so whats it take to get people to move on, to leave a written memo...a bull horn, a translator because perhaps they don't understand english.... The only charge that i can see that violated any rights is proabley this one if it can be proved.... This can only happen in exceptional cases, shit this even applies to us in combat... They are entitled to protest. End of story. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Topaz Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 One thing you have to know. There's a number of Canadians that want to do away with the Queen, as head of state and by doing so the PM will have even MORE POWER. Do we want that? I say no and this also lead to an Americanize state, which if you look have less liberties now. So when you talk about freedoms and human rights, we better be careful what we do to get and keep them. There could be another Harper down the road in the PMO from any party. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 It is very clear that make so many laws make it very easy for the cops to pick from when need to attack you when they like. Yes, bjre, and therefore Canada is just as bad as China, right ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 It's very telling that our media has not run one story that shows these protests from the point of view of individual policeman - where are the interviews with them so we can hear what it's like to be pushed, spat upon, sworn at and humiliated? Individual police officers are not allowed to speak to the press. If they were, then that would open Toronto Police Services up to lawsuits based on whatever they said (i.e. let slip) during interviews. You see, there are reasons for these things. The protesters are required to lodge complaints as to how they were treated - which likely won't go too far. On the other hand, there is no way for the press to verify or disprove their assertions of abuse. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
g_bambino Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 They are entitled to protest. End of story. Not where they want when they want. Streets are for transportation, not for mobs to take over and loiter on. Quote
g_bambino Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 On the other hand, there is no way for the press to verify or disprove their assertions of abuse. Exactly. But media like the Star love to publish those accounts without challenge, implying to the less discerning reader that they're true. There are some people I feel sorry for - I believe there must have been innocent bystanders caught up in the melee; there is indeed a streetcar stop right in the middle of where the police boxed protesters in at Spadina and Queen - but the majority seem to be the usual suspects: self-righteous university students whining about rights they know nothing about and as though the concept of responsibility never applied to them. My favourite comment that was published was from a man just released from the temporary jail: "They treated us like animals... We only got cheese sandwiches." Who could make this stuff up!? Quote
Army Guy Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 They are entitled to protest. End of story. Where did i say they are not entitled to protest, there is laws that limits where and when, and how you can protest....and like any other law it can, and was enforced....Keep in mind that these same people who are whinning where given serveral warnings to move on that they where involved in an unlawful gathering.... It's not about thier right to protest it is about the choices they made...to stay and break the law or move on... Does the right to protest include breaking the laws you don't like or fully understand....does it give you the right to stay and argue the piont with law officals.... "We asked the innocent to leave three times and they chose not, and if a tourist, or even a reporter, chooses to remain in that crowd . . . then they had to deal with the consequences of being detained," he said. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 This whole post is assinine. I especially find the comment about the press telling. Journalists are there to cover the news, with proper accredation, they should not have been rounded up with everyone else So what do we do with the journalist below, he clearly states he was "peacefully protesting" yet goes out of his way to piont out he was a journalist with the dominon in montreal.... So did he come to cover the protests or act in them, ...you can't have it both ways here....your covering the news or your part of the news....kind of kills it for the rest of the journalist does it not.... Cameron Fenton, 24, journalist with Dominion in Montreal“A bunch of us were peacefully protesting (near the Eastern Ave. detention centre) at about 2:30 a.m. when police told us that it was an unlawful assembly and we had to leave,” Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Bryan Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 "Peacefully Protesting" is writing a letter, not joining a crowd of rioters in a situation that has a history of getting out of hand. People know what the anti-G8/G20 mobs get like. People also know that the organizers were so concerned that they spent a lot of money on security. If you went there, and did not disperse when asked, anything that happens to you was your own doing. Quote
PIK Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 This explains alot. lol http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/06/28/jonathan-kay-toronto-city-of-wimps/#ixzz0sFkVlMr4 Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
GostHacked Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 Police were given special powers for the summit. Legislation wen through the Ontario Parliment in the beginning of June. The legislation was NOT voted on by Queens Park. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/25/g20-new-powers.html The regulation also says that if someone has a dispute with an officer and it goes to court "the police officer's statement under oath is considered conclusive evidence under the act." A cops word is law, and you don't have a hope in hell of contesting it. That is a very bad precedent. This law was to give police more power, but it was specifically regarding the security fence and the small buffer area surrounding the fence. But we find people being searched when they are no where near the fence. http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100625/g20-security-perimeter-100625/20100625/?hub=TorontoNewHome Earlier in the day, locals spending time in Queen's Park -- about two kilometers from the security perimeter -- were searched by police officers. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 So what do we do with the journalist below, he clearly states he was "peacefully protesting" yet goes out of his way to piont out he was a journalist with the dominon in montreal.... So did he come to cover the protests or act in them, ...you can't have it both ways here....your covering the news or your part of the news....kind of kills it for the rest of the journalist does it not.... There were plenty more detained besides that one guy. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
M.Dancer Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 So what do we do with the journalist below, he clearly states he was "peacefully protesting" yet goes out of his way to piont out he was a journalist with the dominon in montreal.... So did he come to cover the protests or act in them, ...you can't have it both ways here....your covering the news or your part of the news....kind of kills it for the rest of the journalist does it not.... The Dominion is a news magazine in the same fashion that the Loblaws flyer is a newspaper...I can't say for certain but I doubt he was an acredited journalist...given that journalists only protest when they are on strike. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 .... But we find people being searched when they are no where near the fence. T'was a good idea. Searching and detaining the hooligans and wannabe thugs at the UofT likely saved a few more burning police vehicles and smashed store fronts. Way to go cops! Quote
g_bambino Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 Legislation wen through the Ontario Parliment... The legislation was NOT voted on by Queens Park. Um... Self-contradictory much? Quote
Remiel Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 A cops word is law, and you don't have a hope in hell of contesting it. That is a very bad precedent. I had not noticed that before. There is no way in hell that would pass any fair test under the Charter. And by " fair test " I mean the ones the judiciary has actually developed to judge whether infringement on a right is " reasonable " . Quote
Argus Posted June 29, 2010 Report Posted June 29, 2010 I dunno. If I was walking down a street minding my own business and a bunch of cops ran across the street in front of me and refused to let me pass - then another bunch of cops ran across the street behind me and refused to let me go back, and I had to stand there in the rain for four hours I think I, as a conservative, police supporting kind of guy would really want to punch out some cops. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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