56% of Canadians are anti-semites!

[wyly]

Honestly, I don't feel like participating in this thread anymore. About 99% of what's being said in here by the anti-Israel crows is false. I do not have the patience to go into a history lesson about either the Holocaust or the origins and early history of the Zionist-Arab conflict. As has been said already, Benny Morris created the quintessential resource for this history with "1948". With respect to Holocaust education, it's the most well-documented historical event of all-time. If anybody has a sincere interest in it, there are thousands of books and many rich museums.

I simply don't have the patience to argue with people who are aware of the unique persecution suffered by the Jewish people during the Holocaust or those who make false allegations of "ethnic cleansing" in the pre-Israel Palestine without having so much as read a book about the history of these events.

sucks when you're wrong eh bob?...

bob-

wyly's revisionist claims (which will of course never be substantiated because they're all false),

and what did bob say was revisionist and false?

bob-

try to find even one example of anti-Roma propaganda (posters, radio ads, public humiliations, labelling and targeting of individuals and properties for vandalism, etc).

NAZI anti-roma propaganda courtesy of the Holocaust Museum in Washington didn't you claim you were there bob?

bob-"No worthwhile Holocaust museum (the Holocaust Museum in Washington, Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, The Jewish Museum in Berlin) glosses over the broad scope of catastrophe of the entirety of WWII. You've never been to any of these museums, let alone read a book about the Holocaust" -apparently you've never been there either bob

bob-

there were no pink or purple triangles!

the multi coloured identificationpatches bob says did not exist

bob-

There were virtually no blacks in Europe!

France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, were all colonial powers with african populations, one part of the french army had 40,000 black soldiers...

bob-

Roma persecuted years before the Jews, as we've been persecuted for thousands of years?

Roma were required to register in 1926, 1933 marked the beginning of their persecution(as well as the Jews, 1938 the Nazi's began rounding Roma up and sending them to the concentration camps...earlier centuries Roma were hunted, enslaved raped, murdered...what the Jews went through was no worse...

then there was the best of all

Bob-

The number "six million" means nothing to you.

it was 12 million bob, but in bob's world only jews are people...bob the holcaust denier.... Edited June 23, 2010 by wyly

[Bryan]

I simply don't have the patience to argue with people who are aware of the unique persecution suffered by the Jewish people during the Holocaust or those who make false allegations of "ethnic cleansing" in the pre-Israel Palestine without having so much as read a book about the history of these events.

You should take your own advice and actually read a book or two.

[Jack Weber]

You should take your own advice and actually read a book or two.

He should do what he's planning to do and move to the place he would be most happy...

Ben Gurian awaits...

[Bob]

I stand corrected with respect to the propaganda campaign against Gypsies. I should've been more clear, though, formal legislation passed by the Nazis specifically targeted Jews (imposing obstacles on business, free association, university admission, enrolment in certain professions, etc).

With respect to the triangles you are referring to, I stand corrected. I didn't know that prisoners were delineated in such ways within specific concentration camps. I'll clarify, Jews were the only group to have identification markings (in the form of the yellow Jude star) them as individuals as well as their places of association (businesses, schools, etc) in public, outside of the concentration camps.

Still, your comparisons are ridiculous. To gloss over the unique targeting of Jews in the Holocaust illustrates supreme ignorance of the events.

[Jack Weber]

I stand corrected with respect to the propaganda campaign against Gypsies. I should've been more clear, though, formal legislation passed by the Nazis specifically targeted Jews (imposing obstacles on business, free association, university admission, enrolment in certain professions, etc).

With respect to the triangles you are referring to, I stand corrected. I didn't know that prisoners were delineated in such ways within specific concentration camps. I'll clarify, Jews were the only group to have identification markings (in the form of the yellow Jude star) them as individuals as well as their places of association (businesses, schools, etc) in public, outside of the concentration camps.

Still, your comparisons are ridiculous. To gloss over the unique targeting of Jews in the Holocaust illustrates supreme ignorance of the events.

Of course the Africans in the African Slave Trade were already "pre-marked"...

There's no business like Shoah business is there,Bob?

[Moonlight Graham]

In a new poll it has been revealed that 100% of naomiglover is anti-semetic!

[Jack Weber]

In a new poll it has been revealed that 100% of naomiglover is anti-semetic!

Of course,the complete flipside of that is...well...Bob...

[Machjo]

I think my new signature answers this thread nicely.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I think my new signature answers this thread nicely.

Nice.

[Bonam]

I stand corrected with respect to the propaganda campaign against Gypsies. I should've been more clear, though, formal legislation passed by the Nazis specifically targeted Jews (imposing obstacles on business, free association, university admission, enrolment in certain professions, etc).

With respect to the triangles you are referring to, I stand corrected. I didn't know that prisoners were delineated in such ways within specific concentration camps. I'll clarify, Jews were the only group to have identification markings (in the form of the yellow Jude star) them as individuals as well as their places of association (businesses, schools, etc) in public, outside of the concentration camps.

Still, your comparisons are ridiculous. To gloss over the unique targeting of Jews in the Holocaust illustrates supreme ignorance of the events.

Bob, I dunno where you're going with this at all. Jews were not the only group targeted for extermination by the Nazis, this is widely known historical fact. The suffering certain other groups endured is as tragic as happened to the Jews, except that there were more Jews in Europe for the Nazis to kill. In some sense, perhaps what happened to certain other groups was even more tragic, because at least Jews were able to found their own state and rise again out of the ashes of WWII and prosper, whereas other groups continued to be persecuted and marginalized for years to come, in some cases to this very day.

In any case, linking the Holocaust to the justification of Israel's existence is a bad move in any debate. A Jewish state should still exist, even if the Holocaust had never happened. The existence of the state of Israel is based on the legitimate and ancient desire of the Jewish people for self-determination in their homeland; it is based on life and the love of it, not on death and suffering.

[wyly]

double post

Edited June 23, 2010 by wyly

[Jack Weber]

Bob, I dunno where you're going with this at all. Jews were not the only group targeted for extermination by the Nazis, this is widely known historical fact. The suffering certain other groups endured is as tragic as happened to the Jews, except that there were more Jews in Europe for the Nazis to kill. In some sense, perhaps what happened to certain other groups was even more tragic, because at least Jews were able to found their own state and rise again out of the ashes of WWII and prosper, whereas other groups continued to be persecuted and marginalized for years to come, in some cases to this very day.

In any case, linking the Holocaust to the justification of Israel's existence is a bad move in any debate. A Jewish state should still exist, even if the Holocaust had never happened. The existence of the state of Israel is based on the legitimate and ancient desire of the Jewish people for self-determination in their homeland; it is based on life and the love of it, not on death and suffering.

Well,as I said before,for folks like Bob "There's no business like Shoah business!"

If he sticks to that script,he can attempt to make the claim that Jews have cornered the market of human misery because of the Holocaust,and therefore...Are justified in whatever behaviour is manifested,as it relates to Israel.It also gives him the convenient cover of calling anyone an "Anti-Semite" for questioning him.

It's a common tactic of the Israel "Uber Alles" types....He is the 180 degree opposite in the unreasonable category that Naomi also occupies....

[Guest TrueMetis]

It's a common tactic of the Israel "Uber Alles" types....He is the 180 degree opposite in the unreasonable category that Naomi also occupies....

Oh ya, but he's a lot more fun than Naomi.

[wyly]

Well,as I said before,for folks like Bob "There's no business like Shoah business!"

If he sticks to that script,he can attempt to make the claim that Jews have cornered the market of human misery because of the Holocaust,and therefore...Are justified in whatever behaviour is manifested,as it relates to Israel.It also gives him the convenient cover of calling anyone an "Anti-Semite" for questioning him.

It's a common tactic of the Israel "Uber Alles" types....He is the 180 degree opposite in the unreasonable category that Naomi also occupies....

but in a rare day on the forum he's had the balls to admit he was wrong on some points...don't see that to often...

[Jack Weber]

but in a rare day on the forum he's had the balls to admit he was wrong on some points...don't see that to often...

I'll give him that...

[Argus]

Bob, I dunno where you're going with this at all. Jews were not the only group targeted for extermination by the Nazis, this is widely known historical fact. The suffering certain other groups endured is as tragic as happened to the Jews, except that there were more Jews in Europe for the Nazis to kill.

Bob allowed himself to be misled and drawn off the topic at hand on a pointless red herring. Recall that this started when some idiots suggested that Jews were not in any way targeted or endangered or subjected to more ethnic abuse then scads of other minority groups. When challenged, one of them raised the Gypsies as a defense. It's patently, ludicrously absurd to suggest Roma are subjected to the same level of hate, vilification and violence as Jews, so they drew the conversation back into olden times, to claim that gypsies were also murdered by the Nazis. To which I say - so? How is that in any way relevant to the original suggestion that Jews are not threatened any more than others NOW?

Frankly, the only reason the question even arises is because certain individuals despise Jews so much they cannot bear the thought anyone might have sympathy for them, and so tortuously draw out elaborate justifications to deny that Jews should get any sympathy. And if the Roma, and scads of others, are subjected to the same level of hatefulness then there's really nothing special about Jews, right, and they deserve no particular sympathy or aid.

[Remiel]

Frankly, the only reason the question even arises is because certain individuals despise Jews so much they cannot bear the thought anyone might have sympathy for them, and so tortuously draw out elaborate justifications to deny that Jews should get any sympathy. And if the Roma, and scads of others, are subjected to the same level of hatefulness then there's really nothing special about Jews, right, and they deserve no particular sympathy or aid.

By the logic which you suggest that people who draw comparisons between Jews and Roma suggest that Jews do not deserve any sympathy because they do not suffer more than another suffering group, it is in fact you who suggest that none of those people deserve any sympathy. Why are you not drawing the other conclusion? That Jews deserve sympathy because others do as well, but not a unique sympathy?

[bloodyminded]

Bob allowed himself to be misled and drawn off the topic at hand on a pointless red herring.

Bob's only important topic is that everybody is an anti-semite.

[Bonam]

Frankly, the only reason the question even arises is because certain individuals despise Jews so much they cannot bear the thought anyone might have sympathy for them, and so tortuously draw out elaborate justifications to deny that Jews should get any sympathy. And if the Roma, and scads of others, are subjected to the same level of hatefulness then there's really nothing special about Jews, right, and they deserve no particular sympathy or aid.

Jews do not particularly need "sympathy". They have achieved prosperity both in the diaspora and in Israel. Supporting Israel is not about sympathy, it is about pragmatism, common values, and the reality of the history of the conflict.

[Born Free]

Unmitigated bullshit.

Its a shame your ignorance is so often put on display as exemplified by your last unenlightened missive.

[jbg]

Why? Because..

In this International BBC Poll:

27% of Canadians have a positive view of Israel, while 56% have a negative.

This a big contrast to the United States where, 41% have a positive view of Israel and 33% a negative view.

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the world, possibly because the poll was conducted less than six months following the Israel/Hezbollah war in Lebanon. On average, 56 percent have a mainly negative view of the country, and just 17 percent have a positive view, the least positive rating for any country evaluated. In 23 countries the most common view was negative, with only two leaning towards a positive view and two divided.

Is'nt it time for you to take a vacation...Ya' know....At a place...

Let's not call it a facilty,because that has ugly connotations...

Just a nice,calm place where you can get your thoughts and mind together?

I think her hatred of Jews warps her mind.

[Uncle 3 dogs]

Why? Because..

In this International BBC Poll:

27% of Canadians have a positive view of Israel, while 56% have a negative.

This a big contrast to the United States where, 41% have a positive view of Israel and 33% a negative view.

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the world, possibly because the poll was conducted less than six months following the Israel/Hezbollah war in Lebanon. On average, 56 percent have a mainly negative view of the country, and just 17 percent have a positive view, the least positive rating for any country evaluated. In 23 countries the most common view was negative, with only two leaning towards a positive view and two divided.

Your title is BS. A "negative view of Israel" does NOT equal anti-semite.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Uncle 3 dogs

[Bortron]

Why? Because..

In this International BBC Poll:

27% of Canadians have a positive view of Israel, while 56% have a negative.

This a big contrast to the United States where, 41% have a positive view of Israel and 33% a negative view.

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the world, possibly because the poll was conducted less than six months following the Israel/Hezbollah war in Lebanon. On average, 56 percent have a mainly negative view of the country, and just 17 percent have a positive view, the least positive rating for any country evaluated. In 23 countries the most common view was negative, with only two leaning towards a positive view and two divided.

Naomiglover I take it you kinda hate Israel. Seems like I see your name a lot on Israeli topics. I don't care much for them either.

[Bortron]

You guys know Jesus can't come back till all the Palestinians are out of the land of milk and honey right? Every illegal Jewish settlement dismantled is that much longer ya gotta wait for Jesus.

[DogOnPorch]

You guys know Jesus can't come back till all the Palestinians are out of the land of milk and honey right? Every illegal Jewish settlement dismantled is that much longer ya gotta wait for Jesus.

Are you religious? I'm not.