Bob Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I'm not your friend, and I'm not on Israel's PR payroll. I'm not here to make friends or sell anything. My demeanor doesn't alter the content of my posts. I've got quite a bit of free time on my hands before I leave for Israel and I came to this forum. I don't feel compelled to put my diplomatic hat on and "tolerate" your ignorance for the sake of getting bonus marks for good behaviour. Your desperate attempts to try and disparage my character don't mask your lack of responses to anything I've said, and your constant false statements. Really, it all boils down to you not caring. If you don't care, why would you be compelled to learn? And why do you feel bad about your own ignorance on these matters? I care, so I've spent thousands of hours learning about this in my free time, outside of growing up in an environment that learned about these matter (Jewish day-school, Jewish community events, Jewish friends, family in Israel, etc). It shouldn't offend you that my environment has compelled me to educate myself on these matter while for you it's a trivial matter to philosophize about casually in ignorance. You're not Jewish, you have no stake in these affairs, why should you feel that ignorance on these matters is something to be embarrassed about? Just admit it and be done with it. Post with a lot more humility going forward, stop talking about things you don't know. Maybe you'll learn something if you're honest enough to open yourself up to the truth rather than the propaganda that reinforces your false perspective of Palestinian victimhood at the hands of the oppressive Israeli war-machine?. Anything is possible. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 As usual, you've got it backwards. Israeli security was, and remains, threatened by its neighbours. Its establishment was in no way shape or form a threat to its neighbours, as neither the Jewish states words or deeds illustrated any security threat to its neighbours. What Israel did, however, was offend Muslim and Arab honour and machismo, which felt dissed having a Jewish independent state in its midst. Again, the moral equivalence police advocate on behalf of hostile dictatorship Arab states at the expense of democratic Israel. Bulls*it try forming a new country anywere and see if other countries nearby don't see it as a security threat. It doesn't matter who makes up the country but adding new borders and altering the political landscape like that always threatens the security of exsisting nations. What in the world are you talking about? All Israeli citizens enjoy equal rights. Palestinians under occupation are not Israeli citizens. Are you suggesting that Israel give citizenship to occupied Palestinians? Sounds exacltly like Dhimmi to mean, nice job. What the hell does this have to do with anything? You think Jews living outside of Israel aren't Zionists, or that all Zionist Jews of the diaspora must take it upon themselves to move to Israel I think if a majority of jews were after independance and thought Israel was the way to do it the majority of jews would live there. Pure ignorance. And even though you're wrong (Jews are more targeted than any other group on the planet, bar none, by terrorists), it's irrelevant. Even though other identifiable groups are at risk doesn't lessen the justification of a state as a tool towards self-defense. If First Nations were at risk of being murdered and discriminated against, it would add credence to a hypothetical popular movement towards independence. Uh huh, you've yet to actually show this but I won't let that get in the way of you delusion. Again, supreme ignorance of history. I can no longer continue a conversation about this subject with someone who's not so much read a book about these matters. Keep on wallowing in ignorance. Funny I was thinking the same about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Yeah its pretty obvious any time someone starts talking about their supposed credentials, experience, and "education", over and over again in every post. Someone with a strong command of the facts and a solid grasp of logic would never bother to do that. They also normally dont have temper tantrums a fire off endless barages of ad homs either. We've seen posters like this for sure. Rabble rabble rabble you don't know the history of *.*, and I'm not being glib. Stop being a(n) *.* ...... yawn. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Yeah its pretty obvious any time someone starts talking about their supposed credentials, experience, and "education", over and over again in every post. Someone with a strong command of the facts and a solid grasp of logic would never bother to do that. They also normally dont have temper tantrums a fire off endless barages of ad homs either. I'm a Jewish accountant, and as a result still know much more about these matters than a liberal arts grad who took a couple of courses in Middle Eastern history taught by some professor named Abdul Aziz Muhammad from an anti-Israel perspective. As I already said, I'm not here to try and make friends. I long ago lost my patience for ignorance, so I'm not gonna walk around on eggshells and be accommodating to those who spread lies and misinformation. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I'm a Jewish accountant, I should not have to say this but there is a stereotypical joke in there somewhere. and as a result still know much more about these matters than a liberal arts grad who took a couple of courses in Middle Eastern history taught by some professor named Abdul Aziz Muhammad from an anti-Israel perspective. As I already said, I'm not here to try and make friends. I long ago lost my patience for ignorance, so I'm not gonna walk around on eggshells and be accommodating to those who spread lies and misinformation. Let us know when you are fully 'settled' in. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I'm not your friend, and I'm not on Israel's PR payroll. I'm not here to make friends or sell anything. My demeanor doesn't alter the content of my posts. I've got quite a bit of free time on my hands before I leave for Israel and I came to this forum. I don't feel compelled to put my diplomatic hat on and "tolerate" your ignorance for the sake of getting bonus marks for good behaviour. Your desperate attempts to try and disparage my character don't mask your lack of responses to anything I've said, and your constant false statements. Really, it all boils down to you not caring. If you don't care, why would you be compelled to learn? And why do you feel bad about your own ignorance on these matters? I care, so I've spent thousands of hours learning about this in my free time, outside of growing up in an environment that learned about these matter (Jewish day-school, Jewish community events, Jewish friends, family in Israel, etc). It shouldn't offend you that my environment has compelled me to educate myself on these matter while for you it's a trivial matter to philosophize about casually in ignorance. You're not Jewish, you have no stake in these affairs, why should you feel that ignorance on these matters is something to be embarrassed about? Just admit it and be done with it. Post with a lot more humility going forward, stop talking about things you don't know. Maybe you'll learn something if you're honest enough to open yourself up to the truth rather than the propaganda that reinforces your false perspective of Palestinian victimhood at the hands of the oppressive Israeli war-machine?. Anything is possible. Youve done nothing but spend time indoctrinating yourself with one side of a story. Youre not fooling anybody... just a self-important little child throwing tantrums. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 (edited) I should not have to say this but there is a stereotypical joke in there somewhere. Let us know when you are fully 'settled' in. The funny thing is when he gets to the promised land hes going to find that only a small handfull of extremist zealots share his beliefs, and that the vast majority of Israelis have limited patience for the kind of militant ethnocentric supremecist rhetoric hes fond of. He'll be screaming "YOURE ALL ANTI SEMITES!!! IV SPENT THOUSANDS OF HOURS!" at the poor folks over there. Edited June 18, 2010 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Youve done nothing but spend time indoctrinating yourself with one side of a story. Youre not fooling anybody... just a self-important little child throwing tantrums. So Morris, Shlaim, Oren, Finkelstein, Dershowitz, Carter, Miller, Ross, Carter, Dayan, etc, etc, etc have all indoctrinated me? When I read Haaretz I'm indoctrinating myself? Get back to me when you've actually read something. ' Keep on linking us to dishonest fringe websites to support your misrepresentations of Israeli history and Zionism. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 The funny thing is when he gets to the promised land hes going to find that only a small handfull of extremist zealots share his beliefs, and that the vast majority of Israelis have limited patience for the kind of militant ethnocentric supremecist rhetoric hes fond of. He'll be screaming "YOURE ALL ANTI SEMITES!!! IV SPENT THOUSANDS OF HOURS!" at the poor folks over there. That would be a great comedy show. I very much enjoy shtick humour. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 The funny thing is when he gets to the promised land hes going to find that only a small handfull of extremist zealots share his beliefs, and that the vast majority of Israelis have limited patience for the kind of militant ethnocentric supremecist rhetoric hes fond of. He'll be screaming "YOURE ALL ANTI SEMITES!!! IV SPENT THOUSANDS OF HOURS!" at the poor folks over there. What's extreme about my views? Acknowledging that Arabs are a threat to Israel in words and actions? That makes me extreme? You think Haaretz and JStreet represent mainstream Israeli public opinion? Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 So Morris, Shlaim, Oren, Finkelstein, Dershowitz, Carter, Miller, Ross, Carter, Dayan, etc, etc, etc have all indoctrinated me? When I read Haaretz I'm indoctrinating myself? Get back to me when you've actually read something. ' Keep on linking us to dishonest fringe websites to support your misrepresentations of Israeli history and Zionism. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 how do you equate having a negative view on an apartheid/zionism being anti-semitic? the two are very different...what you're doing is what is falling into the zionist propaganda trap, to criticize Israel is to hate jews...the creation of Israel was an illegal abusive act, and Israeli/zionist politics and it's treatment of the Palestinian is repulsive but to have a negative view of that does not make one anti-semitic... The creation of Israel was approved by the United Nations, and is every bit as "legal" as the creation of Jordan and Saudi Arabia. For the most part, the only people who snivel about Israel's creation being illegal etc. are members of the KKK et al, and brain dead Muslims fanatics. However, of late, Lefties who are simply ignorant and stupid also make mouth noises along that line. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 The creation of Israel was approved by the United Nations, and is every bit as "legal" as the creation of Jordan and Saudi Arabia. For the most part, the only people who snivel about Israel's creation being illegal etc. are members of the KKK et al, and brain dead Muslims fanatics. However, of late, Lefties who are simply ignorant and stupid also make mouth noises along that line. I almost never see anyone whining about Israels creation on here. I think at least in this part of the world both people on the left and right realize that Israel is a legal state and will be one forever. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I almost never see anyone whining about Israels creation on here. I think at least in this part of the world both people on the left and right realize that Israel is a legal state and will be one forever. It's in every thread. When you see someone condemn Zionism, they're condemning Israel's foundation and ongoing development. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 (edited) Youve done nothing but spend time indoctrinating yourself with one side of a story. Youre not fooling anybody... just a self-important little child throwing tantrums. You mean you don't see it as his spending time "on a subject that he's obviously interested in?" This is what I was referring to before; you go after him, an obvious Irael supporter, as you not only give naomiglover, an obvious Palestine supporter, a pass, but you defend her. But then what do I know? I'm an American, so most of my knowledge on this conflict is extremely one-sided, too. And as an American, my views are based on all sorts of stupid beliefs. Certainly they're not based on any legitimate beliefs or knowledge. And that's why my views should be taken with a grain of salt. It's why only Americans who support Palestine should be taken seriously. Because they're smart, and obviously have studied both sides of the conflict, while Americans who support Israel are ignoramuses. What other possible reason could there be for supporting Israel? Edited June 18, 2010 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Really? Let's look at those questions. Would a Jewish state come at the expense of Arabian security? Well yes, you can't just plop down a new country and expect it not to screw with the security of the surronding countries. Nonsense. You think that now simply because you see Jews and Arabs as unremittingly hostile towards each other. But it needn't have been that way. Had the Arabs simply accepted the presence of Israel the entire face of the middle east could have been so much different. Israel could have helped kick start the industrialization and economies of all the surrounding Arab nations. Are Jews in imminent threat of discrimination and murder? No more than any other ethnic group. I would say that is pretty obviously untrue, as well. How many planes have been hijacked, how many cruise ships pirated so that, for example, Gypsies or Gays or Albanians or Blacks or natives aboard could be separated out and murdered? How many terrorists have stated happiness that all blacks/gays/hispanics/catholics/budhists are gathered in one place so he doesn't have to hunt them elsewhere? How much hate literature, including movies, plays, web sites and entire purportedly academic books (many, many books), have been created to vilify and express hatred for the Portuguese, for Muslims, Hindus or Baptists? Anyone who can't recognize that Jews are uniquely targeted in the world is so willfully blind on the issue his opinion is a joke. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Nonsense. You think that now simply because you see Jews and Arabs as unremittingly hostile towards each other. But it needn't have been that way. Had the Arabs simply accepted the presence of Israel the entire face of the middle east could have been so much different. Israel could have helped kick start the industrialization and economies of all the surrounding Arab nations. Not at all the arguement I was makeing but whatever. I would say that is pretty obviously untrue, as well. How many planes have been hijacked, how many cruise ships pirated so that, for example, Gypsies or Gays or Albanians or Blacks or natives aboard could be separated out and murdered? How many terrorists have stated happiness that all blacks/gays/hispanics/catholics/budhists are gathered in one place so he doesn't have to hunt them elsewhere? How much hate literature, including movies, plays, web sites and entire purportedly academic books (many, many books), have been created to vilify and express hatred for the Portuguese, for Muslims, Hindus or Baptists? Anyone who can't recognize that Jews are uniquely targeted in the world is so willfully blind on the issue his opinion is a joke. Hey another claim with no proof to back it up. why am I not surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Nonsense. You think that now simply because you see Jews and Arabs as unremittingly hostile towards each other. But it needn't have been that way. Had the Arabs simply accepted the presence of Israel the entire face of the middle east could have been so much different. Israel could have helped kick start the industrialization and economies of all the surrounding Arab nations. Earlier than that, had the Arabs and their Islamic perspective allowed them to views Jews as equal and not as subhumans, there might have been a difference in the subsequent conflict. Unfortunately, cultural evils die hard. Muslim society has not liberalized to the point that anti-semitism is a fringe trend, rather than the cultural norm. I would say that is pretty obviously untrue, as well. How many planes have been hijacked, how many cruise ships pirated so that, for example, Gypsies or Gays or Albanians or Blacks or natives aboard could be separated out and murdered? How many terrorists have stated happiness that all blacks/gays/hispanics/catholics/budhists are gathered in one place so he doesn't have to hunt them elsewhere? How much hate literature, including movies, plays, web sites and entire purportedly academic books (many, many books), have been created to vilify and express hatred for the Portuguese, for Muslims, Hindus or Baptists?Anyone who can't recognize that Jews are uniquely targeted in the world is so willfully blind on the issue his opinion is a joke. Absolutely. TrueMetis' perspectives on this issue were a joke as soon as started posting. Being the most hated enemy of Islamic fundamentalists (and other anti-semites) isn't a fact of life I enjoy, it's not like we're trying to win some award for being so hated by so many. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I should not have to say this but there is a stereotypical joke in there somewhere. I note that when asked why he didn't follow in the footsteps of his accountant family Stephen Harper responds that he lacked the magnetism for that profession. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not at all the arguement I was makeing but whatever. No, I was pointing out the argument you were making was stupid. Hey another claim with no proof to back it up. why am I not surprised? No proof? No proof of what? Suppose you pick out what you want to argue against and I'll find you proof of it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 No, I was pointing out the argument you were making was stupid. I don't think you even know what my arguement is. No proof? No proof of what? Suppose you pick out what you want to argue against and I'll find you proof of it. I would have thought that was obvious, that jews are more persecuted than any of the hundreds of other ethnicities out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I almost never see anyone whining about Israels creation on here. I think at least in this part of the world both people on the left and right realize that Israel is a legal state and will be one forever. how is a state created by the UN powers against the will of the majority of residents legal?...if the UN Security Council carved up Canada against the wishes of the people and gave half of it homeless persecuted gypsies from europe or Tamils from Sri Lanka this then becomes legal???there was nothing legal about the creation of Israel, it was theft conducted and endorsed by super powers who did not want to accept the homeless jewish refugees of ww2... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I would have thought that was obvious, that jews are more persecuted than any of the hundreds of other ethnicities out there. it's typical, they were the only people ever persecuted,zionists would have us believe only they were targeted for extermination in WW2, they don't want us distracted by the extermination of gays, gypsies, blacks, Jehovah Witness...no, according to the propaganda it was only the jews who were targeted so they alone deserve our sympathy and the exclusive right to steal another peoples homes and land.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 how is a state created by the UN powers against the will of the majority of residents legal?...if the UN Security Council carved up Canada against the wishes of the people and gave half of it homeless persecuted gypsies from europe or Tamils from Sri Lanka this then becomes legal??? there was nothing legal about the creation of Israel, it was theft conducted and endorsed by super powers who did not want to accept the homeless jewish refugees of ww2... Israel's legitimacy is not dependent on the UN. If tomorrow the UN didn't recognize Israel, Israel would still exist. With respect to majority wishes, the majority of the resident population of the Middle East wants the Jewish state destroyed and the Jewish population liquidated. Thankfully, the UN and some in the international community are opposed to these wishes. Clearly, you are a supporter of Islamic dictatorships. How honourable of you. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 how is a state created by the UN powers against the will of the majority of residents legal?... Are you really this stupid? How many nations on Earth do you imagine held a referendum of all adult citizens before creation? None, that I'm aware of. Were the citizens of Lebanon consulted and did they get to vote on the creation of that state by the French in 1926? No? Then it's an illegal state! Right? But no, nobody who harps on Israel's creation ever tries to declare Lebanon an illegal state, nor Saudi Arabia nor Jordan, created by the British, nor Libya, created by the UN in 1949, nor Pakistan, nor any other country which was created out of chaos or pieces knotted together or the remnants of former colonies or whatever. No, the "illegal" designation is reserved strictly for Israel. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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