Hamas "We Con The World" Video

[August1991]

Video

This video is too close to the truth. Very good satire, precisely the kind that will enrage the people who don't understand satire - such as pro-Palestinian leftists.

I note that youtube has removed the video because of "copyright" infringement. I think the real reason is that Warner just doesn't need the political risk/hassle. I find this kind of censorship sad.

Edited June 12, 2010 by August1991

[waldo]

This video is too close to the truth.

truth?... is this the truth you favour?

Latma's editor, and the creative force behind the video, is Caroline Glick. Glick is the deputy-managing editor of The Jerusalem Post. But more importantly, she's the Senior Fellow for Middle East Affairs of the Center for Security Policy.

CSP is a far-right think tank founded by Reagan-era Defense Department official and "Scoop" Jackson protege Frank Gaffney. The board is made up of representatives of defense contractors who do business with Israel and the most implacably hawkish members of the neocon Republican foreign policy establishment. It's funded in large part by ultra-conservative American Zionists.

Latma, Glick tells us, is "is the initiative of the Center for Security Policy's Middle East media project...."

Yes, that's right, Frank Gaffney's ultra-right-wing, pro-Israel think tank is producing incredibly offensive "funny web videos."

A 2002 Nation article explained the influence and makeup of CSP (and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, its spiritual cousin). CSP's leaders were a team of hawks so intransigent that even Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rove began to get uncomfortable with their influence during Bush's first term.

Funding for this wacky satire was brought to you by:

Gaffney's operation has always been a small one, about $1 million annually--funded largely by a series of grants from the conservative Olin, Bradley and various Scaife foundations, as well as some defense contractor money--but he's recently been able to underwrite a TV and print ad campaign holding that the Palestinians should be Enemy Number One in the War on Terror, still obsessed with the destruction of Israel. It's here that one sees the influence not of defense contractor money but of far-right Zionist dollars, including some from Irving Moskowitz, the California bingo magnate. A donor to both CSP and JINSA (as well as a JINSA director), Moskowitz not only sends millions of dollars a year to far-right Israeli settler groups like Ateret Cohanim but he has also funded the construction of settlements, having bought land for development in key Arab areas around Jerusalem. Moskowitz ponied up the money that enabled the 1996 reopening of a tunnel under the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, which resulted in seventy deaths due to rioting.

Also financing Gaffney's efforts is New York investment banker Lawrence Kadish. A valued and valuable patron of both the Republican National Committee and George W. Bush, Kadish helps underwrite CSP as well as Americans for Victory Over Terrorism, an offshoot of conservative activist William Bennett's Empower America, on which he and Gaffney serve as "senior advisers" in the service of identifying "external" and "internal" post-9/11 threats to America. (The "internal" threats, as articulated by AVOT, include former President Jimmy Carter, Harper's editor Lewis Lapham and Representative Maxine Waters.) Another of Gaffney's backers is Poju Zabludowicz, heir to a formidable diversified international empire that includes arms manufacturer Soltam--which once employed Perle--and benefactor of the recently established Britain Israel Communication and Research Centre, a London-based group that appears to equate reportage or commentary uncomplimentary to Zionism with anti-Semitism.

.

.

I know it's a very controversial opinion, but perhaps the people charged with building and maintaining steadfast support of Israel among American Jews (and gentiles!) might try not being proudly violent racist nutcases who seem to cheer the death of their enemies and occasionally support the complete elimination of Arabs?

[August1991]

truth?...

I think your point is referred to as an ad hominem argument. That is, you argue against the person and not the point made. IOW, you play the man, not the ball.

So waldo, what was your point?

Edited June 12, 2010 by August1991

[waldo]

I think your point is referred to as an ad hominem argument. That is, you argue against the person and not the point made. IOW, you play the man, not the ball.

your pomposity presumes ad hominem - think again. Of course, you ignore answering the favoured truth question... as you also, apparently, ignore the background, motivations and funding of individuals/organizations supporting the video creation... supporting your favoured satirical "truth".

[August1991]

... satirical "truth".

Satirical truth, hmm. Waldo, do you know what satirical truth is?

Satire and irony are great inventions of Western Civilization, as well as the Scientific Method and the Enlightenment.

----

Waldo, if I were you, I would defend Satire with all my heart and soul - and my reason.

Edited June 12, 2010 by August1991

[Guest TrueMetis]

Satirical truth, hmm. Waldo, do you know what satirical truth is?

Satire and irony are great inventions of Western Civilization, as well as the Scientific Method and the Enlightenment.

Only the Enlightenment is an invention of Western Civilization.

[waldo]

you're the one attaching "truth" to the so-called satire... "truth" predicated upon the background, motivations and funding of individuals/organizations supporting the video creation. Apparently... your favoured "truth".

[August1991]

Only the Enlightenment is an invention of Western Civilization.

Ancient Greeks made satire/irony public. It was a great invention.

IME, non-westerners have difficulty understanding satire/irony. If you work with non-Westerners, try satire/irony with them. Chances are, they won't "get it". Even the phrase "get it" - hard to translate - is typically western. IOW, the stated truth is other than what is apparent, the essence of satire.

you're the one attaching "truth" to the so-called satire...

Waldo, can you imagine that what is presented is not an exact presentation of what happened? That is, can you understand symbols?

-----

Sadly, we Westerners face a world of Muslims (and many others) who do not understand this idea of symbols.

As I say often, the world does not lack for children - but it lacks for educated children. Our world lacks children who understand satire, irony and the scientific method. We do not lack for children, but we lack for children who are free to choose.

Edited June 12, 2010 by August1991

[Guest TrueMetis]

Ancient Greeks made satire/irony public. It was a great invention.

Irony has been around since stuff exsisted, and people have been using it as long as they've been able to talk, probably longer. The Egyptians have written satire dating back from the 2nd millenium BC. Verbal satire is probably older.

IME, non-westerners have difficulty understanding satire/irony. (If you work with non-Westerners, try satire/irony with them. Chances are, they won't "get it". (The phrase "get it" is typically western. IOW, the stated truth is other than what is apparent, the essence of satire.)

This is just plain untrue.

[August1991]

Irony has been around since stuff exsisted, and people have been using it as long as they've been able to talk, probably longer. The Egyptians have written satire dating back from the 2nd millenium BC. Verbal satire is probably older.

Uh, no. There is a difference between satire and irony.

And both are western (Ancient Greek) inventions.

----

TrueMetis, don't confuse modern life (and movies) with life in the past. Satire is a hard concept to grasp. 5000 years ago, people did not understand satire. They certainly didn't understand irony.

If you don't believe me, try satire with a five year old. That is, try to tell (ironically, satirically) a five year old that it is raining - when the day is sunny. And Truemetis - or anyone else here, with this question on record, do you know the difference between irony and sarcasm?

Well, IME, Westerners understand not only satire (which many Muslims don't) but Westerners also understand irony, which few non-Westerners - Muslim or not - "get".

Thanks to Ancient Greeks, I have a measure of Western Civilization. Does the person before me understand sarcasm, or irony? Do they even understand the difference?

IME, most Westerners get sarcasm and irony with a quick smile.

Edited June 12, 2010 by August1991

[Guest TrueMetis]

Your comparing ancient civilizations to five year olds.

Edited June 12, 2010 by TrueMetis

[waldo]

Ancient Greeks made satire/irony public. It was a great invention.

IME, non-westerners have difficulty understanding satire/irony. If you work with non-Westerners, try satire/irony with them. Chances are, they won't "get it". Even the phrase "get it" - hard to translate - is typically western. IOW, the stated truth is other than what is apparent, the essence of satire.

Waldo, can you imagine that what is presented is not an exact presentation of what happened? That is, can you understand symbols?

-----

Sadly, we Westerners face a world of Muslims (and many others) who do not understand this idea of symbols.

As I say often, the world does not lack for children - but it lacks for educated children. Our world lacks children who understand satire, irony and the scientific method. We do not lack for children, but we lack for children who are free to choose.

what was it you opened with... oh ya, "pro-Palestinian leftists" just wouldn't get it... wouldn't get the satire - and, consequently, your attached "truth". I note you didn't bother to qualify a Westerners vs. non-Westerners attachment to your OP leftists reference

perhaps you could quit your feverish back-peddling, if only long enough to translate the intent of the supposed satire/truth, particularly in the context of the background, motivations and funding of individuals/organizations supporting the video creation. You're clearly avoiding the Salon article I linked and quoted from...

uhhh... you can add a few Israelis to your growing list of pro-Palestinian leftists, non-Westerners, Muslims, uneducated children... you know, your growing list of those who just don't get it!

"Israel forced to apologise for YouTube spoof of Gaza flotilla"

But Didi Remez, an Israeli who runs the liberal-left news analysis blog Coteret, said the clip was "repulsive" and reflected how out of touch Israeli opinion was with the rest of the world. "It shows a complete lack of understanding of how the incident is being perceived abroad," he said. Award-winning Israeli journalist Meron Rapoport said the clip demonstrated prejudice against Muslims. "It's roughly done, not very sophisticated, anti-Muslim – and childish for the government to be behind such a clip," he said.

[August1991]

Your comparing ancient civilizations to five year olds.

I'm asking you to understand satire and irony. I'm saying that a measure of Western Civilization/Education is whether someone understands satire. (Hard to do for Muslims, non-Westerners.)

[August1991]

what was it you opened with... oh ya, "pro-Palestinian leftists" just wouldn't get it... wouldn't get the satire - and, consequently, your attached "truth". I note you didn't bother to qualify a Westerners vs. non-Westerners attachment to your OP leftists reference

perhaps you could quit your feverish back-peddling, if only long enough to translate the intent of the supposed satire/truth, particularly in the context of the background, motivations and funding of individuals/organizations supporting the video creation. You're clearly avoiding the Salon article I linked and quoted from...

uhhh... you can add a few Israelis to your growing list of pro-Palestinian leftists, non-Westerners, Muslims, uneducated children... you know, your growing list of those who just don't get it!

"Israel forced to apologise for YouTube spoof of Gaza flotilla"

Waldo, I'm often confused like you.

And then, I think again - go back to to find a truth. I urge people to go back to the first post of this thread (mine) and watch the linked video.

It's funny!

The great thing about Israelis is that they are Westerners like you and me. We must all defend this style of Western humour, this Western way of being. The world must never lose this Israeli/Western/individual/feminist way of being.

A Saudi/Iran/Muslim way of life is death. It is the end of humour, the end of civilization.

Edited June 12, 2010 by August1991

[waldo]

I suggest we will simply need to agree to disagree... for the extended portion I watched, I certainly didn't find anything funny in that video. I could go on, but I have an early rise this morning.

[scribblet]

I thought it was funny and to the point. The propaganda arm of Hamas is going full throttle, Israel needs to fight back.

[eyeball]

I'd much rather see them throwing jokes at one another than missiles and bullets.

That said, I sure hope they come up with some better material.

[kimmy]

I guess I found the video funny mostly because it agrees with a viewpoint I already had: that the flotilla was a situation designed from the start to force Israel into a situation that would result in a P.R. nightmare.

If I didn't already have that viewpoint, I doubt the video would have persuaded me otherwise, and I probably wouldn't have found it very funny either.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

....If I didn't already have that viewpoint, I doubt the video would have persuaded me otherwise, and I probably wouldn't have found it very funny either.

Certainly not, but for pure entertainment value, the video executed a satirical mocking in the finest tradition. Hell, even the original 1985 "We Are The World" music video was roundly mocked as a pretentious gambit to aid Africans.

Edited June 12, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[August1991]

Certainly not, but for pure entertainment value, the video executed a satirical mocking in the finest tradition.

B_C, you state succintly my basic point (made in too many posts above. I generally avoid these A/B/A/B/A/B forum posts because they quickly become repetitive.)

----

This video is good satire and satire is a typically Western form of humour. Israel is a Western country. We must defend these Western values.

Centuries ago, people like Galileo and Voltaire defended Western values against heathens. We in our time must do the same. Sarcasm and irony remind ourselves of what is at stake, but they are useless tools against heathens who don't get it.

Edited June 14, 2010 by August1991

[Guest TrueMetis]

I'm asking you to understand satire and irony. I'm saying that a measure of Western Civilization/Education is whether someone understands satire. (Hard to do for Muslims, non-Westerners.)

And you proof that non-westerners don't understand irony and satire is?

Centuries ago, people like Galileo and Voltaire defended Western values against heathens.

Which is funny because a lot of those values came from said "heathens" and Galileo seemed to spend most of his time defending those values from the Catholic Church, a core institute of the west at that time.

[bush_cheney2004]

This video is good satire and satire is a typically Western form of humour. Israel is a Western country. We must defend these Western values.

Yes...I'm still waiting for a good Islamic Henny Youngman.

[August1991]

And you proof that non-westerners don't understand irony and satire is?

Uh, you?

Which is funny because a lot of those values came from said "heathens" and Galileo seemed to spend most of his time defending those values from the Catholic Church, a core institute of the west at that time.

Those Catholics. So scientific and enlightened.

Yes...I'm still waiting for a good Islamic Henny Youngman.

Take one of my wives for example, please - take all four of them. Edited June 14, 2010 by August1991

[Guest TrueMetis]

Uh, you?

Using a born and raised westerner who understands satire and irony to prove that non-westerners don't understand satire and irony. If this is a joke it's not a very good one.

There are examples of satire and irony in almost all civilizations, and the Muslims have plenty themselves. Why they would be able to do it hundreds of years ago but not now is beyond me, perhaps you would care to explain it.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Take one of my wives for example, please - take all four of them.

Put back the giggle...you earned it. Yours is an interesting observation....where is the cutting, biting, mocking Islamic humor? Where are their Voltaire or Cervantes...their Twain or Wilde....their Smothers Brothers or Mel Brooks.

Oh yea...there is Salman Rushdie...he lives with death threats from Islamic extremists.