scribblet Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 We already knew that. I think Harper wanted to over-spend just to show off to the rest of the G20 that Canada is the only nation that has money to burn. They couldn't do that with the Gun Registry which was intangible but actually useful. I wouldn't be surprised if Harper is late for another photo-op because he was peeing in the fake-lake. Actually we haven't seen the report on this yet, I'll reserve judgement until we do, however, all of this is speculation, but at least you do recognize that Canada is in a far better financial position than most of the G20 LOL the last statement has nothing to do with good gov't or spending. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Argus Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 Tornto needs another media centre? And what kind of media centre do you get for $2 million? (Answer: One in a tent.) It's a permanent facility to hold thousands of people. I'm sure they'll find all manner of uses for it. A billion dollars on these summits is overspending. Ordinary people in Canada know this. Is it? Everyone seems to agree the vast majority of the money was for security. So what should they have done? Told the security experts they didn't need the things they wanted? Taking a chance, of course, that the security experts knew more about this than the politicians? Told the G20 and G8 that we couldn't afford to host their meetings? The media centre, as I said, was jointly funded by the Ontario government, and if it included a lake to promote Canada, which tourism people believed would wind up getting us a lot of valuable free press, then I'm not marketing expert enough to argue the point. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Topaz Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Posted June 14, 2010 The G8 location was for the benefit for Clements to win the next election, how will the voters in Huntsville vote in the next election? The voters in Huntville and Toronto we'll pay for this more than Ontarians and other Cansdians. They get hit locally, provincially and federally in taxes for this. It costly many people just to get out town for the 3 days and traffic will be a really mess. The best way the protesters could protest will be stay away and show that govt is out control and didn't need to spend this money on security. http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/opinion/article/1093030 Quote
Molly Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 It's a permanent facility to hold thousands of people. I'm sure they'll find all manner of uses for it. The 'media centre' in Huntsville is a (shockingly expensive) new rink. The 'media centre' in Toronto... the $1.9 million fake lake extravaganza... is a one-weekend temporary installation inside the already long-existing and well-used Direct Energy Centre on the CNE grounds. At the end of the weekend, that 'media centre' will be stripped out in entirety, it's new, permanent location no doubt some landfill in Michigan. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Molly Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) It was planned to host about 2000 journalists. That's $1000 spending per reporter. (I should dust off my old credentials and see if I can join the party! A new Blackberry would come in handy, and maybe I could even get one of those special edition leather purses they are handing out.) It's a few hundred feet from a real lake. Edited June 14, 2010 by Molly Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
madmax Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 It's a media centre, actually. It's jointly funded by the feds and the Ontario Liberal government and will remain as a permanent facility. I don't have a problem with that. Most of the people at the wedding were probably just pig ignorant. Love your tatoo Quote
madmax Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 The 'media centre' in Huntsville is a (shockingly expensive) new rink. The 'media centre' in Toronto... the $1.9 million fake lake extravaganza... is a one-weekend temporary installation inside the already long-existing and well-used Direct Energy Centre on the CNE grounds. At the end of the weekend, that 'media centre' will be stripped out in entirety, it's new, permanent location no doubt some landfill in Michigan. Molly, While you and I disagree on many things, I hate to say you are wasting your time pointing out the obvious facts. The difference between fiscally responsible people such as yourself, who value money and legitimate expenses and those defending the G8/G20 Boondoggle is that for some, fiscal responsibility and good governance takes a backseat to Party loyalty. Quote
eyeball Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 Is there nobody else in Canada who is even remotely curious about why our leader is inviting liars to help showcase Canada and then signing a bunch of agreements these same liars agreed to in a secret meeting? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
wyly Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 G8-G20 cost one billion S the World Cup, a month long event with terrorist threats security cost $160 million, no fake lakes or 100K gazebos... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
eyeball Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 G8-G20 cost one billion S the World Cup, a month long event with terrorist threats security cost $160 million, no fake lakes or 100K gazebos... Yeah but no liars. Apparently liars need more protection. From truthful people? Does that make sense? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 The G8 location was for the benefit for Clements to win the next election, how will the voters in Huntsville vote in the next election? The G8 is always located in some sort of resort away from the limelight. If it wasn't in Huntsville it would be in another resort area. In what way do you suggest this influences the cost? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 The 'media centre' in Huntsville is a (shockingly expensive) new rink. The 'media centre' in Toronto... the $1.9 million fake lake extravaganza... is a one-weekend temporary installation inside the already long-existing and well-used Direct Energy Centre on the CNE grounds. At the end of the weekend, that 'media centre' will be stripped out in entirety, it's new, permanent location no doubt some landfill in Michigan. Your saying they'll just pack up the jumbotron and tent and all the other stuff and throw it away afterward? Why do I find that unlikely. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 The difference between fiscally responsible people such as yourself, who value money and legitimate expenses and those defending the G8/G20 Boondoggle is that for some, fiscal responsibility and good governance takes a backseat to Party loyalty. Fiscally responsible people wait to hear what the auditors say before jumping up and down screaming in anger. Stuff costs money, and I have yet to hear anyone say that they think we should announce to the world we're too poor to host summits like this so please everyone leave us alone. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 G8-G20 cost one billion S the World Cup, a month long event with terrorist threats security cost $160 million, no fake lakes or 100K gazebos... I'm guessing the average yearly salary of the South African soldiers and police are considerably lower than that of Canadian police and military people. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
nicky10013 Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 Fiscally responsible people wait to hear what the auditors say before jumping up and down screaming in anger. Stuff costs money, and I have yet to hear anyone say that they think we should announce to the world we're too poor to host summits like this so please everyone leave us alone. It's also a month long event. Quote
Jack Weber Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 Is there nobody else in Canada who is even remotely curious about why our leader is inviting liars to help showcase Canada and then signing a bunch of agreements these same liars agreed to in a secret meeting? Neoliberal free market bag men(and women) are liars?? Impossible!!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Molly Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 Your saying they'll just pack up the jumbotron and tent and all the other stuff and throw it away afterward? Why do I find that unlikely. Well the jumbotron is likely a rental... (and I don't know what tent you are ltalking about, unless you have equated 'pavillion' with 'tent') but maybe it's because a Tory communications officer told you to believe that it was all organized without error or waste, regardless of what the facts say. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
eyeball Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Neoliberal free market bag men(and women) are liars?? Impossible!!!! I don't know about these, I was referring to the leaders of the countries that BS'd their own people on the true cost of security for these Summits. The strongest argument our government has used to defend our costs is that other governments are lying about their true costs. Why are we spending so much money to make these liars feel so welcome? I'm afraid I just don't get that part at all. How do these liars like being called liars by our government? That's another thing I don't get. Edited June 14, 2010 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 Well the jumbotron is likely a rental... (and I don't know what tent you are ltalking about, unless you have equated 'pavillion' with 'tent') but maybe it's because a Tory communications officer told you to believe that it was all organized without error or waste, regardless of what the facts say. Well, no, I was reading the Toronto Star, which said it was half funded by the Ontario government and would be used for a number of future purposes. As far as waste goes I haven't heard anyone with any credibility speak of any specific examples. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 As far as waste goes I haven't heard anyone with any credibility speak of any specific examples. Neither of I....it's simply a case of some people thinking that they know more about what security costs than security experts hired by the government. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 Let forget about being hosts and get down to the nitty gritty - take the 2 billion bucks and divide it up 20 ways and just send the G boys a tribute..that way they can stay home - and all this drama will disappear - plus - who needs those pesky protesters to give us a bad name? Quote
nicky10013 Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) Neither of I....it's simply a case of some people thinking that they know more about what security costs than security experts hired by the government. 2 million on a media centre. The Toronto Police bought 4 sound cannons that couldn't have been too cheap. Forgive me, but I've lived in Toronto for a while and honestly, the G20 is about the only event where the city has needed anything like that. So 4? How is the city going to put them to use after the summit is over? Are they going to rent them out for concerts? As for the rest of the costs, you, nor anyone else can claim they've seen anything that would be termed a waste of money because the extensive breakdown of costs, surprise surprise, won't be released until after the summit. Considering the backlash I'd be surprised if the breakdown of costs aren't released at all. At least without a protracted legal battle. Frankly, considering the behaviour of the government, have they given us ANY reason at all to trust them or their experts? They've never acted openly or with good faith in any of their 4 years in power. They've wasted money left and right and we're just supposed to swallow it? This is yet another example of, if it's no where near as bad as people are claiming, then just release the cost of the summit. I really honestly don't understand how saying, "we spent so much on police and barricades" constitutes a security concer. It doesn't say where the cops are posted. Everyone knows where the barricades are. Show me the money. Edited June 15, 2010 by nicky10013 Quote
Smallc Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 2 million on a media centre. The Toronto Police bought 4 sound cannons that couldn't have been too cheap. Forgive me, but I've lived in Toronto for a while and honestly, the G20 is about the only event where the city has needed anything like that. So 4? How is the city going to put them to use after the summit is over? Are they going to rent them out for concerts? I'm not talking about the media centre, which, quite frankly, in a $280B budget, is inconsequential. The sound cannons, according to what I've heard, will be used by the marine unit during and after the event to communicate with boaters. As for the rest of the costs, you, nor anyone else can claim they've seen anything that would be termed a waste of money because the extensive breakdown of costs, surprise surprise, won't be released until after the summit. Considering the backlash I'd be surprised if the breakdown of costs aren't released at all. At least without a protracted legal battle. According to media reports, the PBO will release a report saying that there is basically nothing wrong with the costs and the expenditures. Telling all before the summit would be stupid anyway. The terrorists shouldn't know exactly what security there is. Quote
g_bambino Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 The Toronto Police bought 4 sound cannons that couldn't have been too cheap.... How is the city going to put them to use after the summit is over? Perhaps you've forgotten about Toronto's perennial and professional mob protesters: OCAP. Quote
nicky10013 Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 I'm not talking about the media centre, which, quite frankly, in a $280B budget, is inconsequential. The sound cannons, according to what I've heard, will be used by the marine unit during and after the event to communicate with boaters. Sigh. According to media reports, the PBO will release a report saying that there is basically nothing wrong with the costs and the expenditures. Telling all before the summit would be stupid anyway. The terrorists shouldn't know exactly what security there is. Funny, doing a quick search I couldn't find anything related to the PBO and spending. As I mentioned, it's stupid to even think that releasing a prelim budget of where the money generally went isn't giving up state secrets. Security is the most tired excuse in the history of governance. The funny thing is I should be and probably am a lot more worried about security than you. I live in Toronto and have to deal with these batshit crazy idiots who riot. The reason why I'm so upset and think it's a waste of money is because this thing has been bungled so bloody badly that even after 1 billion dollars, I, nor anyone else I know is confident that this thing is actually going to be handled properly considering what people in the city have been told. To see other cities do it relatively successfully for so much cheaper is insulting. Quote
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