Research Paper: Seal Hunt

[bush_cheney2004]

Come seals have the second largest natural animal population in the world. They only rank behind deer, and they aint going away. Hunt them, employ northern Canadians. Heck I will start wearing seal if it isn't good enough for those in the EU, Canadians can provide a market for it.

Not even close.....think ants....lots and lots of ants. Insects laugh at your animal facts!

[Wild Bill]

Stuff they've never eaten before they are also ranging farther than they ever have. My link There are also less predators as they have been hit by hunting and fishing as well, directly or indirectly.

It's the seals' own damn fault! They wouldn't be facing a population explosion and have a harder time finding enough food if they had just respected the size limits on small cod fish!

If they had just respected the conservation laws they wouldn't be in this mess!

Oh well, at least the sharks are now well fed. Great Whites have been eating so much seal that now they're experiencing a population explosion!

http://www.capelinks.com/cape-cod/main/entry/too-many-seals-not-enough-sharks/

[GostHacked]

Sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about. But this thread is about the seal hunt, and as I pointed out, even Russia has put a stop to hunting baby seals.

Russia’s seal-hunt ban pushes Canada further into isolation

Furthermore, evidently most Canadians support such a ban. Polling shows 85% of Canadians believe seals under one year of age should be protected from all hunting. Well over ninety-five percent of the seals killed are under three months of age. link

If the sole reason is for the fur trade, then I'd support the ban. Real fur is a fashion faux pas to most people these days. There are probably lots of things you can do with the rest of the seal (food should be the main reason). But in terms of the seal hunt, it's mostly for the fur of the young pups and in the end this is the main reason most people would support the ban.

[wyly]

If the sole reason is for the fur trade, then I'd support the ban. Real fur is a fashion faux pas to most people these days. There are probably lots of things you can do with the rest of the seal (food should be the main reason). But in terms of the seal hunt, it's mostly for the fur of the young pups and in the end this is the main reason most people would support the ban.

how is the fur trade different than the leather trade? leather is just a skin with the fur removed...

the entire problem is man made, human's screwing up nature's natural balances....there were always seals, there were always fish and both were abundance before man depleted the fish stocks...fishing stopped because in our greed we took all the fish and now the seals prevent the fish stocks from recovering... then man decided sharks the oceans prime seal control were great for shark fin soup and destroyed their numbers and now we have a problem with too many seals...

[myata]

It's the seals' own damn fault! They wouldn't be facing a population explosion and have a harder time finding enough food if they had just respected the size limits on small cod fish!

If they had just respected the conservation laws they wouldn't be in this mess!

Yes right. Because we just can't ourselves live within constraints of those laws and will go and scoop it all to every one last bit, driven by the dire need to "survive" (and stuff our pockets with paper in the process), the only hope that remains is now for the seals, fish and holy mother Earth.

[dlkenny]

I have to think that this shouldn't be such an issue. There is no harvesting of "baby seals" as the media would like people to believe. In addition, the seals are no longer killed with a club as animal rights groups would like us to believe, they are killed instantly. What I find disturbing is the same people who oppose the seal hunt have no problem to go buy a steak for supper at the supermarket. What is the difference between killing a seal and killing a cow? The difference is that the killing of cattle occurs out of sight, within the confines of a farm or slaughterhouse. If the seals were killed within the confines of 4 walls like cattle, there wouldn't be any outcry. If anything the seals have a much better quality of life leading up to the harvest, unlike farm animals which if people understood how they're treated would truly cry foul. In reality there's nothing inhumane about the seal hunt, the animals live a free and healthy life and are of considerable abundance. It doesn't make it cruel to kill an animal simply because it is aesthetically "cuter" than another species.

[GostHacked]

how is the fur trade different than the leather trade? leather is just a skin with the fur removed...

Overall they are not much different, I guess.

We get leather from cows, but we also get milk and beef from cows as well. Most of the cow is used in some fashion for clothing or food. Leather is more durable than fur and will keep being the 'fabric' of choice for many items. I'll take a good leather belt over a man made fabric any day, it simply lasts a lot longer. Durable and pliable

However in the seal case, it is the young pups being targeted for their furs, and specifically for the furs and nothing else. No other part of the animal is used at all. Not even for meat!

the entire problem is man made, human's screwing up nature's natural balances....there were always seals, there were always fish and both were abundance before man depleted the fish stocks...fishing stopped because in our greed we took all the fish and now the seals prevent the fish stocks from recovering... then man decided sharks the oceans prime seal control were great for shark fin soup and destroyed their numbers and now we have a problem with too many seals...

Humans have been screwing up nature for a long time, and it's really starting to show. I am wondering if we essentially killed off land-migrating species because of the barriers we put in place (8 lane hiways, rail, fences, urban sprawl)

[wyly]

However in the seal case, it is the young pups being targeted for their furs, and specifically for the furs and nothing else. No other part of the animal is used at all. Not even for meat!

some people eat the meat but no doubt there is waste, I thought the seal industry was looking to china for exporting the meat...would you feel better if the leftover seals were ground up into fertilzer or pet food?...I would think carcasses left on the ice will go back into the food chain, and many of those pups do drown regardless if the ice melts early...

Humans have been screwing up nature for a long time, and it's really starting to show. I am wondering if we essentially killed off land-migrating species because of the barriers we put in place (8 lane hiways, rail, fences, urban sprawl)

well the bison would certianly do better if we removed barriers...I know snakes have suffered because of roads... Edited May 18, 2010 by wyly

[myata]

Nah. We kill a cow to eat it. And we kill that seal simply because it's there, and then we're trying to figure out what to do with it ("vitamin A"; "fur"; stupid "aphrodisiak"; etc).

Of course I already commented on tranditional hunt with which I have no problem.

[Smallc]

Nah. We kill a cow to eat it. And we kill that seal simply because it's there, and then we're trying to figure out what to do with it ("vitamin A"; "fur"; stupid "aphrodisiak"; etc).

[Sir Bandelot]

I'll take a good leather belt over a man made fabric any day, it simply lasts a lot longer. Durable and pliable

part of the argument for using real fur and animal hide vs. synthetic stuff... unfortunately the synthetic becomes more of a hazardous waste when it enters the environment. Real organic products break down better. thus they are more "green".

Not saying I like it. Just sayin

[Sir Bandelot]

some people eat the meat but no doubt there is waste, I thought the seal industry was looking to china for exporting the meat...would you feel better if the leftover seals were ground up into fertilzer or pet food?...I would think carcasses left on the ice will go back into the food chain, and many of those pups do drown regardless if the ice melts early...

The meat is used in pet food.

There is a tendency to feel pity for young animals that are killed. Yet this is most common in nature, it's one reason why animals often have large numbers of young. Think fish, etc. There is a proliferation of young that are born, to increase the chances of survival of just one or two to become adults, and this is a normal part of the food chain. The same goes for animals like birds, and seals.

It seems cruel to kill an innocent baby seal but it's the way the biosphere naturally works.

[Guest TrueMetis]

However in the seal case, it is the young pups being targeted for their furs, and specifically for the furs and nothing else. No other part of the animal is used at all. Not even for meat!

Your wrong their, the fat, meat, and fur of the seal is used. The amount of the seal used is comparable to the amount of a cow used. The Skin make leather as well and real fur last a lot longer than fake fur.

[Guest American Woman]

Ethical difficulties? Give us all a break and don't try to pretend your "ethical difficulties" are anything but the flighty emotional reaction of an ignorant woman who goes "Awwwww" when she sees pictures of pretty seal pups.

Wow. Way to refute what I said. Simply dismiss my beliefs as my "pretending" to feel the way that I do. And let's not forget the insults: "flighty," "emotional," "ignorant." That added so much more credibility to your response.

Ethical difficulties? Your multinational conglomorates pillage the third world and you're worried about seals being harvested for their fur? How ludicrously shallow can your "ethical difficulties" go?

More insults. Way to argue your point!

Here's a newsflash: I can be "worried" about more than one thing that's going on in the world. And at the same time, even!

You don't know anything about the seal hunt and it's none of your business anyway. Go home, ugly American. No one needs your self-absorbed ignorance here.

Of course it's my business. And it's Canada's business what Americans think, too, since the U.S. has put a ban on Canadian seal products.

I find it quite interesting, though, that in spite of your calling me an ugly American, the only one being "ugly" is you. Guess it's just too much for your delicate sensibilities to have someone disagree with your point of view, eh?

Spend a lot of time pondering kills in the wild, lady? Gone hunting, have you? Watched lots of films of "hunts in the wild"?

I'm guessing that 'the wild' to you, is when you see a cow while driving on the highway from one city to another.

:lol:

You really should keep quiet when you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. That's just toooo funny.

Let Africans starve to death but by God don't hurt pretty furry puppy eyed seals!

Again, people ARE able to care about more than one cause. And at the same time. Perhaps you aren't, but most people are.

Because we've heard it all before from ignorant foreigners. We know you don't know anything. We know you're city people whose idea of hunting is looking for the choice meat in your supermarket's meat section.

If that's an example of what you "know," you are one ignorant fool who obviously knows nothing about "foreigners." As you call them ignorant. Like it or not, what "foreigners" think about the issue obviously has had, and is continuing to have, a big impact on the Canadian seal hunt

But FYI, there are areas of the U.S. that are every bit as rural and hunting oriented as the most rural and hunting oriented areas of Canada. By the same token, Canada also has "big cities" populated by "city people," and I would guess one or two of them have responded in this very thread.

Try to wrap your head around this fact. Williat asked for people's input, and I gave him mine. Obviously it's upset you badly, but that comes under the category of "too bad, so sad."

[M.Dancer]

Those things are all done for conservation reasons. That isn't a problem with seals.

Not to mention that they aren't "babies". And it wouldn't bother me either way.

Now excuse me, I'm going to have some cod roe and a beer...

[M.Dancer]

The only thing that irks me about the harvest is how little product winds up on the domestic market. When I was a kid growing up in montreal, the very lucky kids had seal fur mulkuks to wear in winter.

Warm and waterproof, they had a decided avantage over us less fortunate in street hockey and king of the hill...

[jbg]

double post

Edited May 22, 2010 by jbg

[KeyStone]

Hello Everyone,

I am currently finishing up my university degree and I've been asked to submit a final paper on the seal hunt, as I am a Canadian completing a degree in Europe. Now first let me say that I don't want this to turn into a bunch of people attacking each other, I want opinions and if you don't have a decent one don't add it.

Now, the EU plans to put in place a ban on seal products starting in August 2010. I've been heavily researching the topic, however, few academic articles have been written on the topic, primarily I have been forced to rely on news articles which all appear to be outlining the main points of the issue but fail to take a stand on the subject. I don't claim to be an expert on Canadian politics, nor any form of lawyer, therefore please do not assume I have looked into something that seems obvious to you. I have spoken with a number of European students to see how they feel on the subject, most were unaware of the seal hunt even existing, and seemed to show little care other then the typical "Oh but they are cute animals". Basically I have received information from Europeans, however I would like the Canadian perspective as well.

Do you agree with the ban? Now before answering please consider other issues, population growth or loss, fish stocks, EU trade obligations.

Is it legal? Please consider the precedent case that was brought to the WTO concering a prohibition placed on some shrimp that was harvested without "turtle excluder devices", also consider that this case involved the US providing aid to some nations.

http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/envir_e/edis08_e.htm

Finally, what should the Canadian government do? (i.e. ban EU wine perhaps, which Nunavut has already tried)

Thanks, Williat

Hey Williat,

There is a great deal of misinformation out there, on both sides. Let me disspell some current myths.

1) The seal hunt is sustainable. Despite what animals groups say, there are no shortage of seals.

2) Despite what the DFO says, The only reason for the hunt is the pelts. All other seal products are intended solely to obfuscate the fact that young seals are being killed for the pelts (and their carcasses are usually dumped in the ocean.)

3) 95% of seals are killed below the age of three months - as that is when the coat is softest.

Now, many people suggest that the only reason the seal hunt faces such opposition is because seals are cute. There are several things which make the hunt different from other animal slaughtering practices:

1) The sheer numbers wiped out in a matter of days.

2) Young (2 weeks is a baby) animals being killed for their pelts.

3) The carcasses being left to rot on the ice (although for PR purposes, they now dump them in the ocean).

4) Wild vs Domestic

5) Out in plain view vs behind closed doors.

6) The intelligence of the animal (and thus capacity to feel pain and suffering)

The alleged brutality is really no worse than the many methods of slaughtering animals in various abattoirs - something which gets almost no notice. Part of the reason it gets little notice, is because the practice is hidden, and without undercover work, these practices rarely see the light of day. I assure you that if one of these slaughterhouses for pigs, cows, or horses did a mass killing out in public view, there would be a huge outcry.

As for the legality, it should absolutely be legal for a country or the EU to ban products made from something they deem to be cruel, as long as the standards are applied equally. The EU needs to a step further and ban bullfighting and shark fin soup.

[Argus]

Hey Williat,

2) Despite what the DFO says, The only reason for the hunt is the pelts. All other seal products are intended solely to obfuscate the fact that young seals are being killed for the pelts (and their carcasses are usually dumped in the ocean.)

Even if the pelts were worthless there would still need to be a hunt in order to prune their numbers else the size of the herd would grow to the point fish stocks would be destroyed.

As for the legality, it should absolutely be legal for a country or the EU to ban products made from something they deem to be cruel, as long as the standards are applied equally. The EU needs to a step further and ban bullfighting and shark fin soup.

My understanding is that banning is not legal under international trade rules because there is no scientific basis for it. You can't call something cruel when your own slaughterhouses do the same thing. Nor do Europeans have a problem with killing lambs, or other cruel practices of their farming industries.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Argus

[Remiel]

1) The sheer numbers wiped out in a matter of days.

I do not think that rate of killing is really relevant; and if it is, chickens and fish are light years beyond the number of seals killed. There are something like 24 billion chickens in the world. I bet you dollar to a dime at least half of that is probably killed every year for food, and I would not be surprised if it was a much greater proportion.

6) The intelligence of the animal (and thus capacity to feel pain and suffering)

There is no way that intelligence has any bearing on the capacity of an animal to feel physical pain, which is the relevant kind when these sorts of questions are raised.

And if anyone were to mention some kind of mental anguish of parent seals, well, they apparently abandon their pups on the ice after about twelve days. No wonder hunting them is so easy.

[Guest TrueMetis]

2) Despite what the DFO says, The only reason for the hunt is the pelts. All other seal products are intended solely to obfuscate the fact that young seals are being killed for the pelts (and their carcasses are usually dumped in the ocean.)

There are two main reasons for the seal hunt the first is the economic reason as you said the second is conservation of the seals themselves. It's no different from deer hunts to conserve population in that regard.

3) 95% of seals are killed below the age of three months - as that is when the coat is softest.

How is this relevant?

Now, many people suggest that the only reason the seal hunt faces such opposition is because seals are cute. There are several things which make the hunt different from other animal slaughtering practices:

1) The sheer numbers wiped out in a matter of days.

The amount of harp seals killed is about 5% of the population no different then any other seal cull no different from the ones in the U.S. or Europe. The reason so many are killed is because it is such a large population.

2) Young (2 weeks is a baby) animals being killed for their pelts.

As I've said before they are not babies by this stage they are fully independant animals. Second while it is allowable to hunt them at this stage they don't as they are in the 'Raggedy-Jacket' stage it takes about 18 days for them to gain their new coat when they become "beaters" which is when any intelligent person would hunt them. So they are usually ove 1 month old when killed.

3) The carcasses being left to rot on the ice (although for PR purposes, they now dump them in the ocean).

This shows how little you know about nature, they don't rot they are scavanged by birds and when the ice melts by sea creatures.

4) Wild vs Domestic

Not a good reason.

5) Out in plain view vs behind closed doors.

Not a good reason.

6) The intelligence of the animal (and thus capacity to feel pain and suffering)

Prove it, even though it is irrelevant because every study has shown near instant death when the seal is shot or clubbed.

As for the legality, it should absolutely be legal for a country or the EU to ban products made from something they deem to be cruel...

Except the EU has no proof it's cruel because as I have said every stury has shown near instant death to the seal.

[Guest American Woman]

As I've said before they are not babies by this stage they are fully independant animals.

That is flat out false. They are no longer "newborns," but they have not yet learned to swim or hunt for themselves. Hardly "fully independent."

[M.Dancer]

That is flat out false. They are no longer "newborns," but they have not yet learned to swim or hunt for themselves. Hardly "fully independent."

Given at the stage of life when they are harvested they are abandoned by their mothers...you think they have foster mothers minding them?

We are having spring lamb for dinner...

[Guest American Woman]

As for the legality, it should absolutely be legal for a country or the EU to ban products made from something they deem to be cruel, as long as the standards are applied equally. The EU needs to a step further and ban bullfighting and shark fin soup.

The EU can ban anything it deems cruel, regardless of whether or not the "standards are applied equally." You're in effect saying that a nation cannot ban land mines unless they ban everything that anyone everywhere deems cruel, and that's ludicrous.

[M.Dancer]

That is flat out false. They are no longer "newborns," but they have not yet learned to swim or hunt for themselves. Hardly "fully independent."

Complete emotional monsense...they are called beaters because they are learning to swim, they beat the water...and they are learning to hunt and have very little time to learn or they starve.