Mosque going up in NYC building

[waldo]

That's a very good question. That kind of money only comes from very wealthy donors, and it suggests an agenda.

nice teaser! Is there... more? Do you have... more? Surely, you can't leave it at that.

Apparently you can't read. Have another go at AW's comment paying special attention to the part where she describes making it into something it's not.

are you always the vague and suggestive mystery writer? Does one conclude that your suggestion of an agenda... was simply you, "making it (an agenda) into something it's not"?

[Sir Bandelot]

the NYC fireman certainly was respectful, and obviously only questioned the location/circumstances of this Mosque. I don't understand why some have the need to paint those who question this specific situation as being against all Mosques and biased against Muslims.

"I don't want to have to go down to a memorial where my son died on 9/11 and look at a mosque," said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Jim Riches - whose son Jim, a firefighter, was killed on 9/11. "If you ask me, it's a religion of hate," said Riches.

Rosemary Cain of Massapequa, L.I., whose son, Firefighter George Cain, 35, was killed in the 2001 attacks, called the project a "slap in the face. I think it's despicable. That's sacred ground," said Cain. "How could anybody give them permission to build a mosque there? It tarnishes the area."

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/05/06/2010-05-06_plan_for_mosque_near_world_trade_center_site_moves_ahead.html

Understand now?

[Sir Bandelot]

That's a very good question. That kind of money only comes from very wealthy donors, and it suggests an agenda.

Yes, now you're really getting to the heart of the matter. Come on, out with it.

[DogOnPorch]

since, apparently, the existing building on the location in question has existed as a mosque... even before 9/11, there appear some who choose to question the fervent zeal of opposition to a, wait for it... wait for it... proposed community center, one being made analogous to an adjacent YMCA, to an adjacent Jewish community center. A proposal for a building open to all members of the community; one that includes a swimming pool, a basketball court, a performing arts center, a cultural center... and a mosque. What was that you were saying about, "making it into something it's not?"

It was the Burlington Coat Factory building pre 9-11...not a mosque.

Interesting too is the choice of names...Cordoba House. The dead spirit of Andalusia? What the heck is the deal with that? Cordoba was the former Islamic capital in conquered Spain.

[sharkman]

are you always the vague and suggestive mystery writer? Does one conclude that your suggestion of an agenda... was simply you, "making it (an agenda) into something it's not"?

I see, you are simply trolling. Carry on.

[naomiglover]

That's a very good question. That kind of money only comes from very wealthy donors, and it suggests an agenda.

What about the millions of dollars that goes from AIPAC to American politicians? Does that suggest an agenda as well?

[DogOnPorch]

What about the millions of dollars that goes from AIPAC to American politicians? Does that suggest an agenda as well?

I hear Jews control the media and the world's banking system.

[Guest American Woman]

What about the millions of dollars that goes from AIPAC to American politicians? Does that suggest an agenda as well?

This thread isn't about Israel. The first clue is that it wasn't started by you. And since you have started more than enough threads about Israel, I think you could maybe let one or two be about something else. Maybe. If you tried reeeeeaaally hard.

[Guest American Woman]

It was the Burlington Coat Factory building pre 9-11...not a mosque.

Yes, it was, and I've just read that the building, because it was built between 1857 and 1858, and may therefore be protected as a landmark.

One obstacle still in the way is the landmark status for the building that currently occupies the site purchased by ASMA for $4.85 million. Known as the old Burlington Coat Factory building at 45 Park Place, an application for landmark status was filed in 1989 as the building was constructed between 1857 and 1858.

Elisabeth de Bourbon, a spokeswoman for the Landmarks Preservation Commission, said the application had been put on hold but was now re-activated and a hearing is scheduled to determine the status of the building. She has been adamant that the review has no relationship to the pending construction initiative. However, if historic status is granted, the building cannot be torn down and plans for Cordoba House will not be able to move forward on that property. link

Interesting too is the choice of names...Cordoba House. The dead spirit of Andalusia? What the heck is the deal with that? Cordoba was the former Islamic capital in conquered Spain.

It is an interesting choice, isn't it?

At any rate, I think this quote sums up a lot of people's feelings:

The Associated Press report included another point of view from Viviana Hernandez, a chaplain. She stated that the families of Sept. 11 victims "would be wounded by erecting a mega mosque so close to the place where their loved ones were massacred. Even though they may have altruistic reasons, the real terrorists will see it as a win on their side."

The objection isn't to moderate Muslims; the objection is based on what extremist Muslims did.

[waldo]

It was the Burlington Coat Factory building pre 9-11...not a mosque.

Yes, it was, and I've just read that the building, because it was built between 1857 and 1858, and may therefore be protected as a landmark.

PorchDog... yes, the building was a former coat factory; one that closed prior to 9/11. Did you just link to those YouTube videos without actually watching them? From the first video you provided/linked to... quoting from the 30 sec mark:

The building that was once the Burlington Coat Factory

has been used as a mosque in lower Manhattan long before 9/11

, but plans are in the works to expand it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXPXk8InRBU

so it's already been used as a mosque... as stated in the video you provided... long before 9/11. So, is there a problem?

[waldo]

...and I've just read that the building, because it was built between 1857 and 1858, and may therefore be protected as a landmark.

One obstacle still in the way is the landmark status for the building that currently occupies the site purchased by ASMA for $4.85 million. Known as the old Burlington Coat Factory building at 45 Park Place, an application for landmark status was filed in 1989 as the building was constructed between 1857 and 1858.

Elisabeth de Bourbon, a spokeswoman for the Landmarks Preservation Commission, said the application had been put on hold but was now re-activated and a hearing is scheduled to determine the status of the building. She has been adamant that the review has no relationship to the pending construction initiative. However, if historic status is granted, the building cannot be torn down and plans for Cordoba House will not be able to move forward on that property. link

doesn't seem to be a problem reading from this => Landmark Law No Problem For Downtown Mosque

City Council Speaker Christine Quinn says the proposed $100 million mosque and community center near Ground Zero won't be hampered by the city's landmark law, the DN City Hall Bureau's Frank Lombardi reports. Since the City Council has the last say in the landmarking process, Quinn's comments carry added weight.

“As I understand it, there’s nothing about the landmarking process that justly or appropriately would prevent this mosque from moving forward,” Quinn told reporters. “Whenever there is landmarking there are design restrictions, they’re not necessarily height or FAR (size) restrictions, but there are often design restrictions.

"But we have many religious institutions in the City of New York which are landmarks, which co-exist perfectly with the landmarks structure. So, if, and it’s hypothetical, there was landmark interest in this part of lower Manhattan, I am very confident that we could find a way for both the landmark concept and the development of this mosque to move forward. I think it’s incredibly important that this mosque move forward.”

[waldo]

That's a very good question. That kind of money only comes from very wealthy donors, and it suggests an agenda.

nice teaser! Is there... more? Do you have... more? Surely, you can't leave it at that.

Apparently you can't read. Have another go at AW's comment paying special attention to the part where she describes making it into something it's not.

are you always the vague and suggestive mystery writer? Does one conclude that your suggestion of an agenda... was simply you, "making it (an agenda) into something it's not"?

I see, you are simply trolling. Carry on.

it would seem several MLW members are intrigued by your suggestion of an agenda. You could have chosen to elaborate further... rather than play the troll card. Perhaps you have second thoughts on your comment... possible misgivings... what say you - hey?

[DogOnPorch]

PorchDog... yes, the building was a former coat factory; one that closed prior to 9/11. Did you just link to those YouTube videos without actually watching them? From the first video you provided/linked to... quoting from the 30 sec mark:

so it's already been used as a mosque... as stated in the video you provided... long before 9/11. So, is there a problem?

I believe that's a reporting error. The founder of the Cordoba inititive states that his mosque is currently located elsewhere in Tribeca. The Coat Factory took a direct hit from some landing gear during 9-11.

[waldo]

I believe that's a reporting error. The founder of the Cordoba inititive states that his mosque is currently located elsewhere in Tribeca. The Coat Factory took a direct hit from some landing gear during 9-11.

I don't believe so... the same article I linked to a couple of posts back states the coat factory closed down prior to 9/11 - yes, it's rooftop did sustain damage from aircraft landing gear. Of course, the city is clamoring for redevelopment of the site - a perfect fit for the proposed community center - yes?

[DogOnPorch]

I don't believe so... the same article I linked to a couple of posts back states the coat factory closed down prior to 9/11 - yes, it's rooftop did sustain damage from aircraft landing gear. Of course, the city is clamoring for redevelopment of the site - a perfect fit for the proposed community center - yes?

Those are questions for NYC residents...and those affected directly by 9-11.

Cordoba...Islamic Capital of conquered Spain. Good name, though...I like names with a message.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't believe so... the same article I linked to a couple of posts back states the coat factory closed down prior to 9/11 - yes, it's rooftop did sustain damage from aircraft landing gear. Of course, the city is clamoring for redevelopment of the site - a perfect fit for the proposed community center - yes?

No, it didn't close down prior to 9-11. It closed down after it was damaged on 9-11. link

On that still-quiet Tuesday morning, the sales staff was in a basement room eating breakfast, waiting to open the doors to the first shoppers at 10 a.m.

There was no immediate sign of the fiery cataclysm that erupted overhead starting at 8:46. But out of a baby-blue sky suddenly stained with smoke, a plane’s landing-gear assembly the size of a World War II torpedo crashed through the roof and down through two empty selling floors of the Burlington Coat Factory.

The Sept. 11, 2001, attack killed 2,752 people downtown and doomed the five-story building at 45 Park Place, two blocks north of the World Trade Center. The store remained abandoned for the next eight years, one of the last undeveloped downtown properties damaged in the attack.

Edited May 27, 2010 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

Seems to me the people who try to connect (or equate) the entire Muslim world with the few deranged fanatics with box cutters that committed 9/11 are making what is a very powerless and comical enemy into something much, much greater.

And you don't try and make your enemy larger. You have to divide them up to conquer them.

[DogOnPorch]

Seems to me the people who try to connect (or equate) the entire German world with the few deranged fanatics with tanks that committed Anschluss, are making what is a very powerless and comical enemy into something much, much greater.

And you don't try and make your enemy larger. You have to divide them up to conquer them.

[waldo]

I don't believe so... the same article I linked to a couple of posts back states the coat factory closed down prior to 9/11 - yes, it's rooftop did sustain damage from aircraft landing gear. Of course, the city is clamoring for redevelopment of the site - a perfect fit for the proposed community center - yes?

The long-shuttered 13-story building, which was built in the 1850s, formerly housed a Burlington Coat Factory outlet. It closed down even before the 9/11 terror attacks.

No, it didn't close down prior to 9-11. It closed down after it was damaged on 9-11. link

ya, ya - whatever... competing links concerning the closing of a prior tenant's store. But I'll take your linked article confirming the locations past/existing usage as a 'Muslim prayer space'. So, again... the city of NY is most anxious for redevelopment - the existing owner is most willing to extend the past/current 'Muslim prayer space' into a redeveloped community center. Is there a problem?

[waldo]

Seems to me the people who try to connect (or equate) the entire Muslim German world with the few deranged fanatics with box cutters tanks that committed 9/11 Anschluss, are making what is a very powerless and comical enemy into something much, much greater.

And you don't try and make your enemy larger. You have to divide them up to conquer them.

really? I've highlighted your changes to the actual statement made. That's your go-to analogy... you would presume to equate the Nazi aspirations/path toward unification of Germany and Austria to... to... what? You would presume to equate the proposed redevelopment of a somewhat NY city derelict site to... to... what? - as an aspiration/path toward... toward... what?

[BubberMiley]

While I understand World War II Germany is the only analogy allowed on the internet, it doesn't work here so well because, well, the Nazis controlled Germany and had all its resources.

Much to the chagrin of those who would like to start World War III, the extreme islamists don't have the resources of the world's muslims. Not even close. They're just a fringe group who've been cut off at the knees for most of the past decade.

If you want to make them stronger, try to paint the billion or so other muslims as being the same. If you ask me, the most dangerous enemy are those people who do just that.

Edited May 27, 2010 by BubberMiley

[GostHacked]

Much to the chagrin of those who would like to start World War III, the extreme islamists don't have the resources of the world's muslims. Not even close. They're just a fringe group who've been cut off at the knees for most of the past decade.

If you want to make them stronger, try to paint the billion or so other muslims as being the same. If you ask me, the most dangerous enemy are those people who do just that.

That's a very good point Bubber.

We don't pain all Protestants as fanatics after something like Waco with the Branch Davidians.

We do we paint all Mormans as fanatics when we hear about the FLDS.

We don't paint all Jewish people as fanatics when we talk about Israel. (not to stir debate this is just an example)

We don't paint all Christians as fanatics when we hear about some of them blowing up abortion clinics.

We don't even paint all white people as fanatics when we hear about the now essentially marginalized Klu Klux Klan.

We do we seem to paint all muslims as terrorists when we talk about 9/11.

We here in North America have more threats from homegrown religious nuts that are here in our own country (Canada, the US)

[DogOnPorch]

That's a very good point Bubber.

We don't pain all Protestants as fanatics after something like Waco with the Branch Davidians.

We do we paint all Mormans as fanatics when we hear about the FLDS.

We don't paint all Jewish people as fanatics when we talk about Israel. (not to stir debate this is just an example)

We don't paint all Christians as fanatics when we hear about some of them blowing up abortion clinics.

We don't even paint all white people as fanatics when we hear about the now essentially marginalized Klu Klux Klan.

We do we seem to paint all muslims as terrorists when we talk about 9/11.

We here in North America have more threats from homegrown religious nuts that are here in our own country (Canada, the US)

Dropping the kids off with the local RC priest anytime soon? Oh? Why not?

[DogOnPorch]

Keep in mind stereotypes...while often extreme and incorrect...are earned.

[GostHacked]

Dropping the kids off with the local RC priest anytime soon? Oh? Why not?

Are you painting all Catholic Priests as pedophiles?