Born Free Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 The initial event; the outburst in the airport, hardly seemed to warrant any kind of discipline to my mind. Honourable Ministers arent supposed to do that kind of stuff. At the dinner table perhaps but not in public. She did. Ergo, she wasnt honourable. Its a rather simple case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Never let a little thing like a fact get in your way. I have yet to see the slightest evidence of corruption involving anyone in the Tory government. Nor have you - the private information your toaster sends to your brain when your skull isn't enveloped in tinfoil notwithstanding. Is lying to cover your ass considred corruption? I say it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Born Free, on 10 April 2010 - 03:00 PM, said: The Conservatives lost the high ground quite some time ago. Yes, by being conservatives, apparently. At least to some. Being a conservative or a liberal has nothing to do with it. Being lying corrupt SOB's has everything to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 At night he talks to his mother and dead dogs? I didn't know the dogs he talked to were dead as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Is lying to cover your ass considred corruption? I say it is... If dishonesty were a crime every living prime minister would be in prison for life, along with 90% of anyone who had ever held the term "honorable" before their names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 He could have had a majority I believe if had stuck to principals that he espoused when he was part of the Reform Party. I am now homeless politically. My party was shanghied.I don't know that the reform could have, under any set of facts, had the ridings. Doing very well in AB, SK and MB and a smattering of ON ridings does not beget a majority government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 from what I understand Jaffer claiming he could pedal his influence with the government is a crime(I've never heard that before)so he conducting his business through his wife's office using publically paid funded communictions makes her guilty as well as should would have obviously known and approved of it... If - she knew of it and approved of it innocent until proven guilty - that is unless we live in Kanuckistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Honourable Ministers arent supposed to do that kind of stuff. At the dinner table perhaps but not in public. She did. Ergo, she wasnt honourable. Its a rather simple case. Oh fuddle duddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Oh fuddle duddle. But that was said by a Liberal. Because of their good faith and good intentions they get a free pass. </sarcasm> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Hell's Angels eh? hmmm..... Edited April 11, 2010 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Here's a bit of a timeline of what was happening in the PMO the last days before everything hit the fan. I was watching Harper and McGuinty at a press conference and one of the reporters asked about the money the Jaffer's were buying a house with and you could see he was angry and embrassed about the question. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/793462--harper-s-office-rattled-by-jaffer-controversy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 No Argus, he never did anything illegal or improper. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080527/bernier_history_080527/20080527?hub=Specials Thats the difference between neocons and real conservatives. They never do anything improper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) If - she knew of it and approved of it innocent until proven guilty - that is unless we live in Kanuckistan he was using one of her MP cell phones we can assume it was a Blackberry and her office email...how does one not notice business emails for their spouse on her email address? it was impossible not to know...guilty... Edited April 11, 2010 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 I saw a Hells Angels reference above - is this it ? macleans.ca New allegations have emerged stating that Rahim Jaffer and a business associate claiming to be a banker for the Hells Angels tried to sell political influence, reports the Toronto Star. The new reports coincide with RCMP investigations of his wife, minister of state for the status of women Helena Guergis, who allegedly allowed Jaffer to use her parliamentary office to conduct commercial business, and may have sat in on meetings herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 That would be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Born Free, on 10 April 2010 - 04:23 PM, said:Honourable Ministers arent supposed to do that kind of stuff. At the dinner table perhaps but not in public. She did. Ergo, she wasnt honourable. Its a rather simple case. Oh fuddle duddle. Well we know how low you've set your standards for a government Minister....right in line with Harpers ideals...or lack of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 If dishonesty were a crime every living prime minister would be in prison for life, along with 90% of anyone who had ever held the term "honorable" before their names. Apparently you think its OK for a PM or a cabinet Minister to act or behave dishonourably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Well we know how low you've set your standards for a government Minister....right in line with Harpers ideals...or lack of... Apparently you think its OK for a PM or a cabinet Minister to act or behave dishonourably. Chretien, Gagliano, Pelletier, Sgro, Svend Robinson.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Chretien, Gagliano, Pelletier, Sgro, Svend Robinson.... Lets not forget Brian Mulroney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Apparently you think its OK for a PM or a cabinet Minister to act or behave dishonourably. I never hinted or suggested any such thing. Do you have an argument with the statement I actually made? Do you believe most ministers and prime ministers are truthful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Well we know how low you've set your standards for a government Minister....right in line with Harpers ideals...or lack of... Now just hold on a moment. Nowhere did I defend her outburst. It was childish and stupid. But force a minister to resign because of it? Come on. I know the Opposition will demand a minister's head if their toast isn't buttered right, but that's just an age-old rhetorical game. It's always amusing when partisan supporters actually take the politicians' games seriously. I even have some trouble with her being removed because of her husband's misdeeds, but from a political angle, it's clearly better for the Government not to have ministers whose spouses get busted with cocaine, and then magically have the charges dropped. Clearly there's a lot going on that we don't know. It oculd simply be that Harper feels his government has accrued enough damage from this and muscled out. It could be really nasty, nefarious things. What's really amusing about this is that you didn't even catch my reference; "fuddle duddle". Here's a hint; it involves the Prime Minister most often lionized by Liberals and a rude outburst. Edited April 11, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 I never hinted or suggested any such thing. Do you have an argument with the statement I actually made? Do you believe most ministers and prime ministers are truthful? Well then I must assume you believe as I do that its not OK for a cabinet minister to behave or act dishonourably. Under the circumstance, Guergis' behaviour warrented her immediate removal from cabinet. To answer your question about whether I believe that most ministers and prime ministers are truthful.... my answer is ... I hear what they have to say and form my opinion as to their veracity. In Harpers case, not only do I think he showed total lack of judgement from the getgo in the Guergis episode , he's proven to be a serial liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Well then I must assume you believe as I do that its not OK for a cabinet minister to behave or act dishonourably. Under the circumstance, Guergis' behaviour warrented her immediate removal from cabinet. To answer your question about whether I believe that most ministers and prime ministers are truthful.... my answer is ... I hear what they have to say and form my opinion as to their veracity. In Harpers case, not only do I think he showed total lack of judgement from the getgo in the Guergis episode , he's proven to be a serial liar. I think if someone were were to say Harper ate babies and drank the blood of virgins, you would be predisposed to believe it. Edited April 11, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Now just hold on a moment. Nowhere did I defend her outburst. It was childish and stupid. But force a minister to resign because of it? Come on. Chidish and stupid behaviour are grounds for dismissal for a cabinet minister. Its not good to have people in senior public office to act stupid in public.... I even have some trouble with her being removed because of her husband's misdeeds... She wasnt removed for that. Lastly...I knew precisley what your fuddle fuddle meant. Trudeaus long dead and cant be removed from office with out signed exhumation papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Free Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 I think if someone were were to say Harper ate babies and drank the blood of virgins, you would be predisposed to believe it. Did someone say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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