Ontarians to be hit again

[Topaz]

Next January Ontarians will be hit with an increase in hydro rates and as of May 1st, my family is joining the the "retired fixed income group" and I wonder how long is it going to be before the retired have to sell their homes because of high cost of owning one? I was also talking to my insurance company, and they tell me that house and auto rates will probably be going up in May. Great!! There's also a increase in cable and satellite users and how long before Bell ans natural gas hit us? http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/787280--ontario-power-generation-seeks-9-6-per-cent-rate-hike

[Moonbox]

Sucks to be us doesn't it?

Don't you just love Dalton?

[Mr.Canada]

Good citizens of Toronto keep voting for these people. Miller, Dalton, Layton and then are surprised when user fees and taxes go up annually. If people don't vote against these tyrants we get what we deserve.

[Moonbox]

Why do you always have to dumb the discussion down with inane rhetoric? Tyrants? Go look up the definition of tyrant and tell me how it applies to Dalton, or Miller or Layton. Liars and morons perhaps...but tyrants? Really?

[Michael Hardner]

Why do you always have to dumb the discussion down with inane rhetoric? Tyrants? Go look up the definition of tyrant and tell me how it applies to Dalton, or Miller or Layton. Liars and morons perhaps...but tyrants? Really?

Hear, hear. Lazy thinking is tiresome flotsam and jetsam here at MLW.

[Mr.Canada]

Why do you always have to dumb the discussion down with inane rhetoric? Tyrants? Go look up the definition of tyrant and tell me how it applies to Dalton, or Miller or Layton. Liars and morons perhaps...but tyrants? Really?

Because I don't like dancing around issues wasting 10 posts with flowery words finally getting to the point. I just say it right away and save everyone from wasting their time. Get right to the point and go from there.

[Oleg Bach]

We the people paid for the infrastructure of what was once Ontario Hydro..we owned it..we built it..now they privatize it much like some toll roads and the former Dome Stadium..we pay for it and others steal it..now there are not constraints over how much they steal from us in the action of pricing energy.

[Moonbox]

Because I don't like dancing around issues wasting 10 posts with flowery words finally getting to the point. I just say it right away and save everyone from wasting their time. Get right to the point and go from there.

I can only shake my head in wonder at you. If getting to the point for you means frothing at the mouth and spouting MEANINGLESS rhetoric, then you certainly are getting to the point.

Unfortunately, getting to the point for most people means dispensing with the pointless rhetoric and actually presenting rational arguments. I'm afraid that's where you clash with the majority of posters here.

Speaking of meaningless rhetoric, "Oh hey look! Oleg posted here too!"

[Oleg Bach]

I can only shake my head in wonder at you. If getting to the point for you means frothing at the mouth and spouting MEANINGLESS rhetoric, then you certainly are getting to the point.

Unfortunately, getting to the point for most people means dispensing with the pointless rhetoric and actually presenting rational arguments. I'm afraid that's where you clash with the majority of posters here.

Speaking of meaningless rhetoric, "Oh hey look! Oleg posted here too!"

ALL you have is logic..and hopefully a sense of duty..wanna bee politicals must really want to serve the people..I might be a rube but I have a good heart..giving up your time and life to make life better for others is the best and most real politics.

[Moonbox]

ALL you have is logic..and hopefully a sense of duty..wanna bee politicals must really want to serve the people..I might be a rube but I have a good heart..giving up your time and life to make life better for others is the best and most real politics.

case and point....

What are you even talking about???

[Shwa]

Because I don't like dancing around issues wasting 10 posts with flowery words finally getting to the point. I just say it right away and save everyone from wasting their time. Get right to the point and go from there.

Yes, Mr. Canada you sure do and I, for one, appreciate it. At least you are honest. Although you do demonstrate the remove-all-doubt principle when you do speak up. And I am fine with that too.

[Oleg Bach]

case and point....

What are you even talking about???

YOU should run for public office..you seem perfectly qualified.

[Michael Hardner]

YOU should run for public office..you seem perfectly qualified.

Of course, EVERYONE would check off the box on a ballot if it were marked 'Moonbox'... not.

[Argus]

Next January Ontarians will be hit with an increase in hydro rates and as of May 1st, my family is joining the the "retired fixed income group" and I wonder how long is it going to be before the retired have to sell their homes because of high cost of owning one? I was also talking to my insurance company, and they tell me that house and auto rates will probably be going up in May. Great!! There's also a increase in cable and satellite users and how long before Bell ans natural gas hit us? http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/787280--ontario-power-generation-seeks-9-6-per-cent-rate-hike

People don't think. It's so easy for the phonys like McGuinty to spout environmental rhetoric when they NEVER attach a price tag to it. But the numbers are simple enough.

Current electricity is generated at 3.8c per kwh

McGuinty is going to pay 14c per kwh for wind power generators. That's almost 400% higher.

McGuinty is going to pay 44c per kwh for solar power. Nearly 1200% higher priced.

The more solar and wind power that comes on-line the higher your electricity bill will go. How high will it go? Well, at all solar, 100% solar power, the average family would be paying over $1100 per MONTH for their electricity. Of course, it won't come to that, right? But it's not at all beyond the pale to see electricity prices doubling within the next five years, then increasing rapidly after that.

The contracts being written by Ontario Hydro - on orders from the Liberals - allow for huge profits for private electricity generators without risk. From what I understand, whether your wind power generator actually generates much energy is kind of irrelevent to the contracts. You are guaranteed payment for X kwh per month regardless of whether there's any wind or not. Most of them that I've heard of don't generate anywhere near what they're being paid for. I assume it's the same sort of deal for solar generators. I know my brother in law has been offered a contract paying him thousands a month to rent some land to put solar panels on, paying him more in a year or two than he could sell the land for to be honest.

Meanwhile, there are no plans for new power generators to replace the coal fired plants McGuinty promised to close years and years ago. They made a half-hearted, fumbling move to get bids for a pair of new nuclear plants, but when the prices came back too high they gave up on them. Ontario continues to grow its population rather quickly, mainly from immigration, yet despite the lead time on new plants being at least a decade no new large scale power plants are even in the planning stages.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Argus

[Shady]

At first I thought this thread was about the new increases on recycling taxes. But in a way it's pretty close. Argus nailed it on the lack of increased production of energy, except using massively expensive solar and wind.

I really wish environmentalists would keep their hands out of my f'ing wallet. Every day it's another new tax, or a new fee, or a new increase, all in the name of some ridiculous science, in which Canada has a microscopic impact, if any at all.

[Moonbox]

The best part is that probably the majority of environmentalists are net drains on the economy in the first place. They're probably paying dick all in taxes anyways.

[eyeball]

The best part is that probably the majority of environmentalists are net drains on the economy in the first place. They're probably paying dick all in taxes anyways.

Just wait until our draw down of natural capital starts hitting home, then it will become more apparent where the real drain on the economy is occurring and who's actually draining it the fastest.

When the waterhole shrinks the animals get meaner. I think we'll also see who the real crybaby's are too.

[Bonam]

Just wait until our draw down of natural capital starts hitting home, then it will become more apparent where the real drain on the economy is occurring and who's actually draining it the fastest.

Yeah we're in real danger of this happening soon in Canada... NOT

[Moonbox]

Just wait until our draw down of natural capital starts hitting home, then it will become more apparent where the real drain on the economy is occurring and who's actually draining it the fastest.

When the waterhole shrinks the animals get meaner. I think we'll also see who the real crybaby's are too.

The crybabies are going to be the ones who are in the worst position fend for themselves -- namely the poor people who are already whining all the time anyways.

The funny thing is that while these people are the ones bleating on and on about green power, they're also the people hurt most by higher energy prices. In a way I'm almost looking forward to how stupid it will look on them when they have trouble paying their hydro bills. It will just be annoying for me. For them it will actually hurt.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Moonbox

[bloodyminded]

The crybabies are going to be the ones who are in the worst position fend for themselves -- namely the poor people who are already whining all the time anyways.

Since the poor have far less of a voice, the majority of the whining you actually hear is from more moneyed interests.

As usual.

In a way I'm almost looking forward to how stupid it will look on them when they have trouble paying their hydro bills. It will just be annoying for me. For them it will actually hurt.

I'm sure you are looking forward to the continued hardships of people with lesser means than yourself. It's great sport.

[Moonbox]

Since the poor have far less of a voice, the majority of the whining you actually hear is from more moneyed interests.

As usual.

Yes obviously...I mean we never here people whining about lowering corporate taxes or anything like that right? Right???

I'm sure you are looking forward to the continued hardships of people with lesser means than yourself. It's great sport.

When they willingly screw themselves? Actually yes.

[bloodyminded]

Yes obviously...I mean we never here people whining about lowering corporate taxes or anything like that right? Right???

Oh sure, we hear it every day....well, every week...ok, now and then...maybe once in a blue moon...

Meanwhile, the sanctimonious victim-mentality of the moneyed classes is ubiquitous.

But since you agree with this sort of top-down class warfare, you no doubt consider it mere reportage of objective reality.

When they willingly screw themselves? Actually yes.

Well, that's the difference between you and that more compassionate and thoughtful entity, known as the majority of the human race.

[Moonbox]

Oh sure, we hear it every day....well, every week...ok, now and then...maybe once in a blue moon...

Well, that's the difference between you and that more compassionate and thoughtful entity, known as the majority of the human race.

It has nothing to do with compassion. If the collective majority is going to WILLFULLY screw itself and bring me down with it, the only thing they'll get from me is sneering contempt.

It's very easy to be "compassionate" with other people's money, but let's see what people think when their hydro bills go up and it ends up being THEIR money as well.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes obviously...I mean we never here people whining about lowering corporate taxes or anything like that right? Right???

I dunno, Moon. I sure don't hear the poor themselves complaining about corporate taxes. I hear the NDP complaining about them, but then again they had a platform of keeping lower corporate taxes than in the US.

The truly poor - we don't hear from them much IMO.

[Michael Hardner]

But anyway, that's all thread drift.

Argus - your post was informative. Do you have links ? I'm glad that there seems to be more interest in this topic than there was in healthcare. Let's see what information is out there for Ontario Hydro.