Israel continues to spit in the face of international law

[jbg]

Your contempt for international law is proof that you are not a lawyer.

Passed by what legislature and approved by what voters? I'm sorry, the Toronto Star and the faculty and student body of the University of Ottawa don't count. And what "international law" does a suicide bomber in Jerusalem that detonates him- or her-self on a bus observe?

And what is this "Radical Leftist". What do you even mean by that?

My ideology happens to be to the left of the NDP.

[WIP]

What does it matter....they are American and Israeli concerns, not yours. Nope, you can sit comfortably in Canada and focus on the single issue of what those damn "Zionists" are doing (again).

Since your cryptic non-answer stated that U.S. foreign policy was too complicated for me to understand, I was curious if these "complications" were factually based, or just your idea of a witty rejoinder.

[Oleg Bach]

Well, the war was not fought for the sake of liberating the Jews.

At any rate, it's hard for me to square the idea that the Jews owe anything, anything at all, to the Christians.

If the Jews were being genocided the Christians would assist in their survival - If the Christians were being genocided the Jews would not give a shit. Yes I know that war was not fought on behalf of liberating Jews - but the Jews were used by the Germanic anglo saxons as a scape goat..someone to take the blame for their own sins and sinisterism.

For centuries hate objects are needed to motivate the masses into action. ALSO--- people forget that NATIONAL SOCIALISM EVOLVED INTO INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISM. If you are going to create a secular socialist world..you have to get rid of the people that will not bow down to those who take charge of earthly authority..in other words those that believe in God will become the undesirables - the non-compliant - this is what the holocaust was about - atheists destroying the non-compliant - the God believing Jews and real Christians - and secularist Jews did assist in the betrayal of their God believing brothers.

This is the very nature of socialism...getting rid of those that will not bow to dictators..Christian _ Jew or Muslim..it does not matter - power crazed idiots dispise and loath those that stand up for their eternal God give rights. It will always be a battle between those that believe in the highest authority and those that want to take the place of the highest authority - It is classic in nature ..that some want to be god...and the wise know that no man on earth can or should take the position of total dictatorial authoritarian.

This is not a Jewish issue - it is a human issue - but some Jews gladly take the role of scape goat as long as they are kept comfortable in a material sense - but it is a nasty job that sometimes ends very badly - Imagine - getting paid to be the villian in the play of life....perhaps the Muslims would like the role?

[GostHacked]

After Israel no doubt received intelligence that Hamas was gearing up for attacks. Also what about their kidnapping of an Israeli?

What is funny about that situation is that an Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit was captured by Hammas, and two others were captured by Hezbollah around the same time. Israel has made little to no effort to get Shalit back, instead dropped bombs on Lebanon. first then later attacked Gaza.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/mar2006/jeri-m16.shtml

Soon after the conflict with Lebanon ended, Israel made a push into Jericho to attack a Gazan Jail. The jail had prisoners that Hammas I guess had captured tried and jailed. Some of the people were the PFLP.

Israel raided the jail, let some go and end up taking some of them back to Israel to be tried under their laws.

The fact that some of these same men have already been indicted, tried and convicted under Palestinian law for the same crime—making a second Israeli prosecution illegal under international statutes—is obviously of no concern to a government that considers itself immune from far more basic considerations of international law.

But if they were already in a jail in Gaza, I fail to see what this proves. And if they end up letting many prisoners go, that also affects the security of Gaza and those escapees can come back to bite Israel in the ass.

This is the same year we have the white phosphorus incident.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5447590.ece

[bush_cheney2004]

Since your cryptic non-answer stated that U.S. foreign policy was too complicated for me to understand, I was curious if these "complications" were factually based, or just your idea of a witty rejoinder.

OH...I see...you want more attention than I was willing to give. You wanted me to take the time to explain the obvious, like:

1) US geopolitical interests in the region going back to the Cold War for Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. See Google.

2) US oil interests in Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and now Iraq

3) US "war on terror" and partnership with Israeli capabilities (long before 9/11)

4) US weapons systems development and demonstration in battle space conditions

5) US domestic political support for a lasting democracy and ally in the region now (against Iran) and going forward

6) US commitments to the Egypt-Israel peace treaty of 1979, with substantial recurring foreign aid for Egypt, Israel, and Jordan

There, that should be enough to get you started compared to the singular concern of "Zionists" pulling Canada into another conflict. For you see, Israel is also an ally of the United States (just like Canada believe it or not), and deserving of no less (and maybe more) "support" based on where it is and who is trying to kill it. Who is trying to kill Canada?

[naomiglover]

Passed by what legislature and approved by what voters? I'm sorry, the Toronto Star and the faculty and student body of the University of Ottawa don't count. And what "international law" does a suicide bomber in Jerusalem that detonates him- or her-self on a bus observe?

A suicide bomber does not void international law.

A lawyer should know that.

My ideology happens to be to the left of the NDP.

NDP's stance on the conflict in the middle east is:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the NDP use every available means to help restore Canada's position in support of justice and international law

http://www.cicweb.ca/media/news_060910_ndp.cfm

So how can you be 'left' of the NDP when you prefer to stomp all over international law?

Edited June 10, 2010 by naomiglover

[ToadBrother]

A suicide bomber does not void international law.

The unwillingness of the International Community to actually prevent suicide attacks does. International law has never been applied in the way you seem to think it is. About the only kind of international law that is really all that meaningfully binding is the maritime law.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for your demands that Danzig be returned to Germany.

Edited June 10, 2010 by ToadBrother

[dre]

You're writing a novel.

What comes clear from your posts is that you will stop at nothing to dismiss Arab savagery and barbarism and to deny Israel any means to defend itself. Your posts are little but half-truths and outright lies.

The Goldstone Investigation was hardly neutral and balanced.

The Goldstone Investigation was hardly neutral and balanced.

You say that merely because it didnt completely vindicate your "team". Everyone here knows that the GS report had vindicated the Israeli position you all would be heralding it as the definitive piece of work on the matter.

As it is... the report condemns both sides and the parts seem to be pretty accurate.

But again... sports fans like you ALWAYS thing the ref is calling the game unfair.

[dre]

The unwillingness of the International Community to actually prevent suicide attacks does. International law has never been applied in the way you seem to think it is. About the only kind of international law that is really all that meaningfully binding is the maritime law.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for your demands that Danzig be returned to Germany.

No theres no difference. Both are a patchwork of treaties agreements, and conventions. Its all technically "binding" but its a matter if theres someone willing to enforce it. The UN has no army or navy so all it can do is refer its findings and conclusions to the UNSC and its up to the member states to decide if enforcement might come in the form of sanctions, or more. Normally those countries are going to want to have some sort of compelling self interest before they do much.

In this context Israel is basically exempt from International law and they can do pretty much what they want... they have a puppet on the UNSC with a veto so that pretty much scuttles the idea of any enforcement against them.

[jbg]

No theres no difference. Both are a patchwork of treaties agreements, and conventions. Its all technically "binding" but its a matter if theres someone willing to enforce it. The UN has no army or navy so all it can do is refer its findings and conclusions to the UNSC and its up to the member states to decide if enforcement might come in the form of sanctions, or more. Normally those countries are going to want to have some sort of compelling self interest before they do much.

So what you're sayign is that Israel has to fight with one hand tied behind its back?

In this context Israel is basically exempt from International law and they can do pretty much what they want... they have a puppet on the UNSC with a veto so that pretty much scuttles the idea of any enforcement against them.

Why should Israel be the only country that should have to tolerate rocket attacks and suicide bombings?

[dre]

So what you're sayign is that Israel has to fight with one hand tied behind its back?

Why should Israel be the only country that should have to tolerate rocket attacks and suicide bombings?

Did... what the fuck are you talking about? I didnt say anything of that at all.

Can you please try to read the posts you reply to?

And no... Israel should not have to tolerate rocket attacks and suicide bombings any more than people in the occupied territories should have to tolerate a military occupation, or harsh quotas on using their own resources, or illegal settlements being built on their land.

Both parties can show damages here. Its not the one-sided team sport you tried to make it out to be so put down the bright pink pom-poms and take that awfull looking miniskirt off.

[bush_cheney2004]

No theres no difference. Both are a patchwork of treaties agreements, and conventions. Its all technically "binding" but its a matter if theres someone willing to enforce it.

Ah yes...."someone", which is not so subtle code for "will the Americans lead enforcement".

The UN has no army or navy so all it can do is refer its findings and conclusions to the UNSC and its up to the member states to decide if enforcement might come in the form of sanctions, or more. Normally those countries are going to want to have some sort of compelling self interest before they do much.

...and the means to do so.

In this context Israel is basically exempt from International law and they can do pretty much what they want... they have a puppet on the UNSC with a veto so that pretty much scuttles the idea of any enforcement against them.

That's right, which is exactly how it was set up in a Cold War context.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And no... Israel should not have to tolerate rocket attacks and suicide bombings....

It doesn't....while the navel gazers debate international law that lacks any teeth, Israel bites hard and often.

[ToadBrother]

Both parties can show damages here. Its not the one-sided team sport you tried to make it out to be so put down the bright pink pom-poms and take that awfull looking miniskirt off.

Except that one side repeatedly attempted over a 25 year period to wipe out the other, failing spectacularly each and every time and losing territory in the process (which is a general rule of war, you lose, you lose land). I'm not going to say Israel is perfect, or that everything it does is right, but at the end of the day the Palestinians were not screwed over by the Israelis, they were screwed over by their fellow Arabs. They would have been celebrating the 50th anniversary of their own state a few years ago if their Arab brethren hadn't decided that Israel's existence couldn't be tolerated.

As Madelaine Albright once famously said, the Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. And now that they've installed those Islamist goons Hamas, which really are nothing more than paid thugs for Tehran and Damascus, they've guaranteed that Israel will continue along this path.

The Palestinians, sooner or later, are going to have to accept two things; 1. they'll never beat Israel and 2. they'll never get all the territory they claim back... never... any more than Japan will ever regain the Kurils or Germany Danzig. You start wars and lose them, you lose territory. That's the way it's worked since we invented war.

[myata]

The Palestinians, sooner or later, are going to have to accept two things; 1. they'll never beat Israel and 2. they'll never get all the territory they claim back... never... any more than Japan will ever regain the Kurils or Germany Danzig. You start wars and lose them, you lose territory. That's the way it's worked since we invented war.

I don't make specific predictions about the future. But in general terms I foresee this: if Israel continues its beligerent (in act who cares about words anybody can sing) and aggressive policies in the occupied territories for much longer, the eventual outcome of this affair for them will be very different from what they plan for.

[GostHacked]

Incorrect. East Jerusalem is as much part of Israel as East Berlin is to Germany.

Germany has been unified for some time now.

We talk about the losers in the war. Germany lost, and yet you claim East Berlin is as much a part of Germany as West Berlin. They were two separate countries and treated as such until reunification. The wall came down.

If you admit that East Berlin is a part of Germany, but you make the claim that Jerusalem belongs to Israel because Palestinians and the Jordanians lost the war.

Germany was the looser but East Berlin is a part of Germany.

Jordan/Palestine lost the war, but East Jerusalem is a part of Israel.

The Wall is still up.

Care to clear this up for me? It's confusing.

[GostHacked]

There is no such thing as international law outside of "Maritime Law", and that applies on not one square inch of land.

International Law and agreements from the British Mandate for Palestine and League of Nations created Israel.

Probably just a coincidence that someone as painfully grating as dub, who posts in the same voice of dub joined days after dub was banned.

Afterall, the antizionist lobby works in rotation.

Take a look at the dates you posted (unless you made a mistake), there is almost a year between dub getting banned and N.Glover joining.

[Oleg Bach]

So what you're sayign is that Israel has to fight with one hand tied behind its back?

Why should Israel be the only country that should have to tolerate rocket attacks and suicide bombings?

Why should western nations tolerate economic attacks and collapses due to stupidity and greed? You forget - prior to the late 40s Israel did not exist - it is not as if they were there for eterntiy and suddenly the Palistine suddenly cropped up out of no were - If you remember the whole area was once called Palistine. The creation of Israel was done by zealots..in effect there was a certain fanatic tinge to the whole affair in the beggining. At first there was some religious motivation - but now for the most part it is a secular state - and religious Jews are despised by the state.

[M.Dancer]

International Law and agreements from the British Mandate for Palestine and League of Nations created Israel.

Take a look at the dates you posted (unless you made a mistake), there is almost a year between dub getting banned and N.Glover joining.

look again...Dub's last post was August 26th 2009...

Edited June 11, 2010 by M.Dancer

[GostHacked]

look again...Dub's last post was August 26th 2009...

Ahh so you posted Join dates and not the Ban date of dub and the join date of N.Glover.

[M.Dancer]

Ahh so you posted Join dates and not the Ban date of dub and the join date of N.Glover.

It was only a matter of time before I erred...

[jbg]

look again...Dub's last post was August 26th 2009...

Ahh so you posted Join dates and not the Ban date of dub and the join date of N.Glover.

It was only a matter of time before I erred...

I'm confuseled.

What is:

1. The date of Dub's last post?
   
2. The date Dub was banned?
   
3. The date NaomiGlover joined?
   
4. The date of NaomiGlover's first post?
   

[Oleg Bach]

It doesn't....while the navel gazers debate international law that lacks any teeth, Israel bites hard and often.

I had a dog like that once - kicked it once and it never bit again.

[jbg]

Deleted. Double post.

Edited June 11, 2010 by jbg

[Argus]

We talk about the losers in the war. Germany lost, and yet you claim East Berlin is as much a part of Germany as West Berlin. They were two separate countries and treated as such until reunification. The wall came down.

If you admit that East Berlin is a part of Germany, but you make the claim that Jerusalem belongs to Israel because Palestinians and the Jordanians lost the war.

Germany was the looser but East Berlin is a part of Germany.

No great mystery. Germany lost the war and so lost a big chunk of territory to Russia. Russia then lost the cold war to the US and NATO so Germany regained its lost territory.