Funding for the First Nation University

[Topaz]

The Minister of First Nations is stopping the funding of the University of First Nation out west and this will lead to closing the school and even though the money from the government to the school has been abused, I still think this school should remain open for these students. We hear so many times from non-native that this group of people should get jobs, well these students are on their way in doing so and now they aren't going to have that chance because of the Tory decision. They need the funding for next year enrollment by the end of this month but the minister refuses to give it. If Harper is trying to reach the youth by going on Youtube for votes, then he's just lost the First Nation youth vote. BTW, I would post a link to this story but for some reason it doesn't work on this forum.

[M.Dancer]

Amazing that so much money has been given via land claims that they can't fund their own school..or find competant and honest administrators.

[Moonbox]

That's my sentiment. There's no point in throwing money away that has a pretty solid track record of being squandered.

[ToadBrother]

The Minister of First Nations is stopping the funding of the University of First Nation out west and this will lead to closing the school and even though the money from the government to the school has been abused, I still think this school should remain open for these students. We hear so many times from non-native that this group of people should get jobs, well these students are on their way in doing so and now they aren't going to have that chance because of the Tory decision. They need the funding for next year enrollment by the end of this month but the minister refuses to give it. If Harper is trying to reach the youth by going on Youtube for votes, then he's just lost the First Nation youth vote. BTW, I would post a link to this story but for some reason it doesn't work on this forum.

As laudable as the whole enterprise is/was, the fact of the matter is that mismanagement has seen a whole lot of taxpayer dollars go down the tubes. Your argument seems to be "It's run by incompetents and/or crooks, but because the optics of shutting it down are unfavorable, we should keep throwing money at it anyways."

[wyly]

As laudable as the whole enterprise is/was, the fact of the matter is that mismanagement has seen a whole lot of taxpayer dollars go down the tubes. Your argument seems to be "It's run by incompetents and/or crooks, but because the optics of shutting it down are unfavorable, we should keep throwing money at it anyways."

I don't think "we" are throwing any money more money at it, hasn't funding been withdrawn? the only funding left is theirs so if it's shut down it's their decision not ours...all levels of government are in the clear on this...

[Wild Bill]

The Minister of First Nations is stopping the funding of the University of First Nation out west and this will lead to closing the school and even though the money from the government to the school has been abused, I still think this school should remain open for these students. We hear so many times from non-native that this group of people should get jobs, well these students are on their way in doing so and now they aren't going to have that chance because of the Tory decision. They need the funding for next year enrollment by the end of this month but the minister refuses to give it. If Harper is trying to reach the youth by going on Youtube for votes, then he's just lost the First Nation youth vote. BTW, I would post a link to this story but for some reason it doesn't work on this forum.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. You know, (or should know) that this University is not run by our governments. It's run by First Nations themselves. This means that the government doesn't control the hiring and firing of the teachers and administrators of the university. They simply give a big cheque to the First Nations peoples involved.

This means that they can't correct the problem! If the First Nations peoples want to hire crooks or if crooks have enough power among the bands to get themselves put on the university boards there's nothing our governments can do about it.

So you say, "Give them the money anyway! Don't let the students suffer!" Well, if the crooks keep stealing the money how much do we keep pouring in? Do we have an infinite amount of money? Do we just keep pouring and pouring?

I'm also curious as to why you think Harper will lose the First Nation youth vote. Do you think that those young people EXPECT Harper to keep giving their money to thieves? Why wouldn't these young folks take out their anger at the crooks within the First Nations leaders?

I don't really understand why these people need a university of their own anyway. Why pay for a special university that is run by people who steal the money instead of just helping First Nations students with the tuition to attend ANY public university? Would a degree not require the same standards of having learned the same curricula? A lawyer is a lawyer or an engineer is an engineer, are they not? Should a bridge care about the colour of the skin of the person who designed it?

Perhaps you could explain it better to me.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Wild Bill

[Topaz]

The Chief was on CBC and he said the people who abused the money are gone and new people are in. So what is the difference Canadians having both, the Conservatives and the Liberals both take advance of our taxs dollars and yet we still vote them back. and the First Nation correcting the problem with new people. That's exactly what WE do at the voting booth!

[Moonbox]

The Chief was on CBC and he said the people who abused the money are gone and new people are in.

Of course he says that. He wants more money. The question is why was it allowed to be squandered in the first place? The money was a handout and they still managed to waste it. Now the question is why should regular taxpayers like myself pay for them to have a race-based university that they can't even manage properly?

You don't get three chances when you screw with charity money. Once you've blown it you've really blown it.

[Mr.Canada]

I have a hard time believing that "native youth" vote for Harper anyways. I'm tired of being held hostage by perpetual victims. If your Uni is going to be sustainable then it should have no problems getting private corporate funding. I'm tired of all these victims with their hands out.

[Shady]

I have a hard time believing that "native youth" vote for Harper anyways.

Exactly. As if they vote Conservative anyways. That's if you believe they even vote in the first place.

Conservatives don't get elected with the support of the native community. That community tends to vote for which ever government throws them the most money, with the least strings attached. And that ain't Harper. Thank God.

[DFCaper]

So you say, "Give them the money anyway! Don't let the students suffer!" Well, if the crooks keep stealing the money how much do we keep pouring in? Do we have an infinite amount of money? Do we just keep pouring and pouring?

I'm also curious as to why you think Harper will lose the First Nation youth vote. Do you think that those young people EXPECT Harper to keep giving their money to thieves? Why wouldn't these young folks take out their anger at the crooks within the First Nations leaders?

I think stopping the trend of throwing away money to the corrupt chiefs, will maybe cause the youth to pay attention how they are the real victims of the thieves. Maybe if the Feds stopped funding reserves that had chiefs taking the lions share of the federal money then the band members would self police the chiefs.

We need more than the status quo to fix the native hardship issue. I also think there should be more money put into elementary, and secondary schools, as that is where the train wreak starts..

[Machjo]

The Minister of First Nations is stopping the funding of the University of First Nation out west and this will lead to closing the school and even though the money from the government to the school has been abused, I still think this school should remain open for these students. We hear so many times from non-native that this group of people should get jobs, well these students are on their way in doing so and now they aren't going to have that chance because of the Tory decision. They need the funding for next year enrollment by the end of this month but the minister refuses to give it. If Harper is trying to reach the youth by going on Youtube for votes, then he's just lost the First Nation youth vote. BTW, I would post a link to this story but for some reason it doesn't work on this forum.

First off, I don't see the point of a First Nations University. Let's reverse our historical roles for a moment. Imagine that the Huron nation had discovered and colonized Europe and put all the Europeans on reserves once the Huron culture was the majority culture. Then, as a gimmick, the Huron Federation of Europe decided to set up a First Nations University in Central Europe (Poland, let's say). Do you really think the Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, the Italian etc. will be happy to just be lumped together as if one homogeneous mass? It's pretty obvious that the common language and culture at that univeristy would continue to be the Huron culture. Cleaver gimmick indeed.

It would make more sense then to either have an English university in England, a French university in France, etc. or if their numbers cannot support that, then at least have an English-language department in a Huron-medium university in England, and the same in a Huron-medium university in France, etc.

Now coming back to reality, how accessible is the First Nations university to Canada's Huron Innu people in Quebec who can't speak any English for example? Personally, I'd say scrap the First Nations University and stop lumping the First Nations together as if one homogeneous mass. Instead, establish either a separate Huron university, Algonquin university, Salish university, etc. or, if numbers do not warrant that, then an Algonquin department in a local Ottawa university for example, and the same for other First Nations. Notice the -s at the end of Nations. There are not one homogeneous mass. On that front at least I agree with scrapping that particular university. A Huron is no more similar to a Micmac than an Englishman is to a Frenchman.

[Machjo]

Some points have been brought up concerning corruption, mismanagement, and leaving it to the private sector. While I certainly do agree with much of that, it also seems there's a double standard when it comes to government funding for French and English, especially when we consider that we ourselves tried to forcefully assimilate them.

[Moonbox]

While I certainly do agree with much of that, it also seems there's a double standard when it comes to government funding for French and English, especially when we consider that we ourselves tried to forcefully assimilate them.

First off, we pay for the programs, so when we screw it up and let it get squandered, it's like we crapped in our own bed. We have full control over these programs and can fix them. We also pay for First Nations programs, however. When they squander handout money it's like a giant slap in the face. We don't have any say in how it gets spent and we get no benefits from it, so it's very difficult to justify further funding.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Moonbox

[Machjo]

First off, we pay for the programs, so when we screw it up and let it get squandered, it's like we crapped in our own bed. We have full control over these programs and can fix them. We also pay for First Nations programs, however. When they squander handout money it's like a giant slap in the face. We don't have any say in how it gets spent and we get no benefits from it, so it's very difficult to justify further funding.

Off-reserve natives do pay taxes. And on-reserve natives have had their ancestral land taken away against treaties.

[Battletoads]

I'm confused why we should be proping up a minority group. Maybe they should nut up and get with the program, you know, like the rest of Canadians who have to work for what they are given.

[charter.rights]

First off, we pay for the programs, so when we screw it up and let it get squandered, it's like we crapped in our own bed. We have full control over these programs and can fix them. We also pay for First Nations programs, however. When they squander handout money it's like a giant slap in the face. We don't have any say in how it gets spent and we get no benefits from it, so it's very difficult to justify further funding.

First off let's dispel yet another myth.

The majority of First Nations do not squander their money. They are underfunded and often have to juggle money from one program to pay for another, so often it appears that money is not going where it was allocated. Secondly, the Auditor General herself recognized that what the government has often claimed as financial anomalies are in reality problems within Indian Affairs - that reports that are claimed to be late or non-existent have often been found on some bureaucrat's desk at INAC waiting for review and approval. Lastly when INAC has gone to the extreme and put Bands under third party management, KMPG (the third party manager often appointed) ended up spending more than 30% more to manage the same programs the Band was underfunded for.

There is no doubt that according to the records there are financial problems with First Nations University where budgets are under-reported. However, when FNU is also funded at about 10% of the what other universities are funded at by government, it isn't difficult to see that it is the inequities that are causing part of the problem.

[Smallc]

First off let's dispel yet another myth.

The majority of First Nations do not squander their money.

Obviously you haven't dealt with many first nations.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Smallc

[M.Dancer]

Obviously you haven't dealt with many first nations.

Well, you know, we aren't talking about a majority of first nations..we are talking about First Nations administrators...if only 40% are thieves..

[Smallc]

That's correct for the most part. Many aboriginals though, at least in Manitoba, do not have the slightest idea about how to manage money...and that's rather sad to watch. My family gives away thousands and thousands of dollars a year to make sure that children of people on the nearest reserve to us can eat....because their parents wasted their cheques on beer, tobacco, and....other things.

I realize that is not true of all reserves, but in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, it is very much the norm.

[Moonbox]

There is no doubt that according to the records there are financial problems with First Nations University where budgets are under-reported. However, when FNU is also funded at about 10% of the what other universities are funded at by government, it isn't difficult to see that it is the inequities that are causing part of the problem.

The university itself is a joke. It's been censured by the CAUT (canadian university teacher's association) for issues relating to academic freedom and it's been mired in scandal for years. On top of that, it's an ethnically and politically motivated entity in the first place. Why should it receive the same funding as an actual Canadian university?