Would you commit rape under ideal circumstances?

[Argus]

A survey of high school students revealed that 56% of the girls and 76% of the boys believed forced sex was acceptable under some circumstances. Another survey of 11-to-14 year-olds found that 51% of the boys and 41% of the girls said forced sex was acceptable if the boy, "spent a lot of money" on the girl; 31% of the boys and 32% of the girls said it was acceptable for a man to rape a woman with past sexual experience; 87% of boys and 79% of girls said sexual assault was acceptable if the man and the woman were married; 65% of the boys and 47% of the girls said it was acceptable for a boy to rape a girl if they had been dating for more than six months ( White,1991).

Male college students that were surveyed admitted that in certain situations 35% of them would commit rape if they could get away with it. One in twelve said that they had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape, of these 84% did not recognize their actions as rape ( Koss, 1988; Malamuth,1981).

[Smallc]

No.

[CANADIEN]

No.

Me neither, and I wonder if the stats provided would be the same in more recent stats.

[wyly]

there was another survey like this done about 20 years ago and a large majority of men surveyed said yes...but saying yes in a survey is not the same as reality...

[kimmy]

The numbers from that survey are rather startling, to say the least.

-k

[Argus]

The numbers from that survey are rather startling, to say the least.

-k

I suspect in these surveys the word "rape" was not used, particularly with the younger people. Instead they were asked if it was okay to force their girlfriends to have sex, ie, if they'd been dating for six months.

I actually feelt he percentage of men who said they would rape a woman if they could get away with it is understated given the societal condemnation of the act.

Let me use Eric Tilman as an example. Here we have a responsible middle-aged family man with no known propensity for violence.

Give him a few too many pain medications, though, and the inhibitions put on him by society melt away, and what happens? He does what comes naturally. He sees an attractive female bent over, and grabs her, pulling her against him. Now granted he stopped as soon as she got angry. But suppose he didn't have to. Suppose she was submissive, though unwilling, and suppose he knew that absolutely no one would condemn him if he did whatever he felt like doing? That is, not only was it legal to force his attentions on her, but there would be no condemnation from society at large, friends and family, no one.

I think the question asked - if you could get away with it, which drew a 35% admission, would be considerably higher under "ideal" conditions, where they would face no fallout whatever.

Men want what they want, as Tilman demonstrated. And as one of the polls noted, the great majority of men didn't even see forcing themselves on someone as rape anyway in most cases. There is a disconnect between men and women with regard to sex. Men, esp younger men, don't see sex as anything more than a pleasurable sport. Intellectually, they sort of get that women see it differently, but emotionally, they just don't consider it to be more than a fun time. So why should "having a fun time" with a girl, be a bad thing?

Or to quote from another study

The teenage girls I met told me that boys simply don't understand what rape is. And yet this is a crime that can ruin lives and is punishable by life imprisonment.

I think society still has a very thin veneer of civilization in that only legal and societal condemnations hold in check a number of our baser instincts. In areas without those condemnations, rape is far and away more widespread.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Argus

[DrGreenthumb]

I suspect in these surveys the word "rape" was not used, particularly with the younger people. Instead they were asked if it was okay to force their girlfriends to have sex, ie, if they'd been dating for six months.

I actually feelt he percentage of men who said they would rape a woman if they could get away with it is understated given the societal condemnation of the act.

Let me use Eric Tilman as an example. Here we have a responsible middle-aged family man with no known propensity for violence.

Give him a few too many pain medications, though, and the inhibitions put on him by society melt away, and what happens? He does what comes naturally. He sees an attractive female bent over, and grabs her, pulling her against him. Now granted he stopped as soon as she got angry. But suppose he didn't have to. Suppose she was submissive, though unwilling, and suppose he knew that absolutely no one would condemn him if he did whatever he felt like doing? That is, not only was it legal to force his attentions on her, but there would be no condemnation from society at large, friends and family, no one.

I think the question asked - if you could get away with it, which drew a 35% admission, would be considerably higher under "ideal" conditions, where they would face no fallout whatever.

Men want what they want, as Tilman demonstrated. And as one of the polls noted, the great majority of men didn't even see forcing themselves on someone as rape anyway in most cases. There is a disconnect between men and women with regard to sex. Men, esp younger men, don't see sex as anything more than a pleasurable sport. Intellectually, they sort of get that women see it differently, but emotionally, they just don't consider it to be more than a fun time. So why should "having a fun time" with a girl, be a bad thing?

Or to quote from another study

The teenage girls I met told me that boys simply don't understand what rape is. And yet this is a crime that can ruin lives and is punishable by life imprisonment.

I think society still has a very thin veneer of civilization in that only legal and societal condemnations hold in check a number of our baser instincts. In areas without those condemnations, rape is far and away more widespread.

Holy shit, was this survey done in Afghanistan? How anyone could get even be turned on when the girl wasn't interested is beyond me. It wouldn't be any fun for me if I didn't feel like the girl was a very willing and even enthusiastic partipant.

Argus, that you can condone this on ANY level sickens me. I wish I could say It surprises me.

Edited January 25, 2010 by DrGreenthumb

[blueblood]

what the hell kind of a bullshit survey/thread is this?

That would not only be a no, but a hell no.

There are people that have honor. Eric Tillman does not.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Argus you continue to disgust me congrats.

[sharkman]

The results of this survey is not really surprising when you consider the decay of morals in our society in the last 50 years. We started out on this road a long time ago and where it ends up is written in history, there's nothing new under the sun.

[Guest TrueMetis]

The results of this survey is not really surprising when you consider the decay of morals in our society in the last 50 years. We started out on this road a long time ago and where it ends up is written in history, there's nothing new under the sun.

What moral decay? I was under the impression 50 years ago sucked. The cold war was happening during that time not exactly an era of shining morality.

[Smallc]

The results of this survey is not really surprising when you consider the decay of morals in our society in the last 50 years.

Yes things were much better 50 years ago...especially if you were a black jew.

[Riverwind]

The results of this survey is not really surprising when you consider the decay of morals in our society in the last 50 years.

50 years ago the courts believed that it was impossible for a man to rape his wife since she gave her consent by agreeing to marriage.

[sharkman]

Yes things were much better 50 years ago...especially if you were a black jew.

Yeah, like things are any better now for blacks or Jews or women in various parts of the world.

I'm talking about personal morals that would lead a 17 year old boy to think that forcing sex on a girl is wrong. Is it really so hard to say that 17 yr olds in the present survey have something wrong with them to think it's okay to rape a girl?

[Guest TrueMetis]

I'm talking about personal morals that would lead a 17 year old boy to think that forcing sex on a girl is wrong. Is it really so hard to say that 17 yr olds in the present survey have something wrong with them to think it's okay to rape a girl?

No but you have to now prove that they wouldn't say the same thing 50 years ago.

[Wild Bill]

what the hell kind of a bullshit survey/thread is this?

That would not only be a no, but a hell no.

There are people that have honor. Eric Tillman does not.

You've put your finger on it, BB! Interesting that the discussion got so far before anyone even brought up the concept of "honour"!

The key point is that you yourself would know what you've done. That should be enough reason not to do such a thing!

How close we are to the jungle...

[kimmy]

I think society still has a very thin veneer of civilization in that only legal and societal condemnations hold in check a number of our baser instincts. In areas without those condemnations, rape is far and away more widespread.

I don't think that is true in general, but I do think there are a lot of people who do fit that characterization.

-k

[sharkman]

Call me old fashioned but I think one's own morals are the first line of defense in a society. One policing their own thoughts and actions. Then the legal system provides another line of defense, if you will. The problem is, nothing is wrong anymore as morals have slid so far to be unrecognizable. Then you have the blame game. It's not my fault, I blame the parents, blame the system, blame my bad experiences for my actions, which aren't really wrong under these conditions. Situational ethics have taken over.

[Smallc]

Nothing is wrong anymore? You really think that society doesn't have rights and wrongs? Just because we have different morals doesn't mean they don't exist.

So often, people look at the past through rose coloured glasses ignoring the tragedies and travesties that occurred every day. You know what? Some times it is the parents fault. Sometimes it is societies fault.

[Wilber]

Call me old fashioned but I think one's own morals are the first line of defense in a society. One policing their own thoughts and actions. Then the legal system provides another line of defense, if you will. The problem is, nothing is wrong anymore as morals have slid so far to be unrecognizable. Then you have the blame game. It's not my fault, I blame the parents, blame the system, blame my bad experiences for my actions, which aren't really wrong under these conditions. Situational ethics have taken over.

Don't know that things are quite that bad but there is lot of truth to that you say. What a depressing survey. I find it very hard to believe.

[Army Guy]

Call me old fashioned but I think one's own morals are the first line of defense in a society. One policing their own thoughts and actions. Then the legal system provides another line of defense, if you will. The problem is, nothing is wrong anymore as morals have slid so far to be unrecognizable. Then you have the blame game. It's not my fault, I blame the parents, blame the system, blame my bad experiences for my actions, which aren't really wrong under these conditions. Situational ethics have taken over.

I think it's the other way around, our legal system is the first line of defence, we know it's wrong and the law will not allow us away with it...hence keeping our moral values some what in check...

Remove that legal system, government and moral values go to hell and hand basket pretty fast...i've seen it to many times in areas of conflicts, where the law is absent and rapes become common practice ...look at Bosina rapes where very common, so common that it became a lesser crime, or somewhat morally acceptable....

[Oleg Bach]

The feminst experiment is an utter failure - It should have been about human rights and not the rights of a sex. What we have now in part is a young barbaric culture of human beings who are less than animals - You wanted secularization and liberal freedom..well you got it! Where boys rape and young girls beat and stab their female competators..sounds and looks like lord of the flys to me.

[wyly]

The feminst experiment is an utter failure - It should have been about human rights and not the rights of a sex. What we have now in part is a young barbaric culture of human beings who are less than animals - You wanted secularization and liberal freedom..well you got it! Where boys rape and young girls beat and stab their female competators..sounds and looks like lord of the flys to me.

no different than when I was kid only now girls are more open about talking about being raped and much more likely to get a conviction...

you led a very sheltered life if you believe this is new...

Edited January 25, 2010 by wyly

[Oleg Bach]

no different than when I was kid only now girls are more open about talking about being raped and much more likely to get a conviction...

you led a very sheltered life if you believe this is new...

Yes both of my parents had seen the horrors of starvation - revolution - war..and my mother wanted a better life for her children..we were as most Orthodox Russian Christians kept in as much of an angelic state and environ as possbible..funny - my patriarcal mother was a great and powerful protector..once she died - our heavenly house came tumbling down and predators of all sorts came to roost. Financial parasites and social invaders did negatively infect the family. She took great satisfaction in being a protector but made the mistake of not teaching us to protect ourselves...It took years to get up to speed. The outside invironment was quiet lawless where we lived - We had money, property food and dignity..the others out side of our realm were in a state of moral and fiscal poverty - it was savage and I have seen it all - poverty and lack of proper training leads to what you think is humanly normal - such as rape and violence.

[wyly]

Yes both of my parents had seen the horrors of starvation - revolution - war..and my mother wanted a better life for her children..we were as most Orthodox Russian Christians kept in as much of an angelic state and environ as possbible..funny - my patriarcal mother was a great and powerful protector..once she died - our heavenly house came tumbling down and predators of all sorts came to roost. Financial parasites and social invaders did negatively infect the family. She took great satisfaction in being a protector but made the mistake of not teaching us to protect ourselves...It took years to get up to speed. The outside invironment was quiet lawless where we lived - We had money, property food and dignity..the others out side of our realm were in a state of moral and fiscal poverty - it was savage and I have seen it all - poverty and lack of proper training leads to what you think is humanly normal - such as rape and violence.

if it's nothing new to you then why do you blame it on "The feminst experiment is an utter failure - It should have been about human rights and not the rights of a sex. What we have now in part is a young barbaric culture of human beings who are less than animals - You wanted secularization and liberal freedom..well you got it!"

bad behaviour is as old as humanity...