Haiti and the Dominican Republic

[Oleg Bach]

I always thought that the Dominican Republic was a seperate Island. Looking at the map I see that it is one enclosed land mass.. It really reminds me of a have and have not place with a wall running though it. The tragedy in Haiti was not the earth quake. It was probably some earlier punitive sactional action taken against workers who got tired of being slaves and refused to comply to the will of rich old corporations.. What is the relationship and history between these two nations? It would be interesting to see how so much concentrated poverty existed for decades now - poverty does not come from within - It is always inflicted...who originally injured Haiti.. who created a place so poor that buildings horribly built became weapons of mass destruction?

[bush_cheney2004]

The problem is as simple as the American major league baseballs that used to be stitched by Haitian women...that moved to Costa Rica in the 1990's. The Dominicans, on the other hand, hit a home run instead.

[Oleg Bach]

The problem is as simple as the American major league baseballs that used to be stitched by Haitian women...that moved to Costa Rica in the 1990's. The Dominicans, on the other hand, hit a home run instead.

Hit a home run and took the ball and ran home with it..excluding their brothers...nawh - the colonialist powers love to put Haitians on a type of welfare designed not to heal but slowly destroy - The place should never have existed in it's present form..they are in the western hemisphere and are our people..place has to be fixed.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hit a home run and took the ball and ran home with it..excluding their brothers...nawh - the colonialist powers love to put Haitians on a type of welfare designed not to heal but slowly destroy - The place should never have existed in it's present form..they are in the western hemisphere and are our people..place has to be fixed.

OK...but much can be learned from the Haiti-Dominica relationship for the past 200 years. There is no love lost between the two nations, with Dominica wishing to distance itself from its welfare basketcase neighbor.

Maybe it's France's fault!

[DogOnPorch]

During Haiti's earliest post-Colombian days it was a haven for pirates and buccaneers (mostly French) who would raid the Spainish Treasure Fleets heading to the Florida Straights and back to Europe. Once older and retired from pirating, these same pirates (et al) later turned to agriculture and formed French colonies. The slaves from Africa soon followed (Code Noir, etc). Which shows how little Oleg actually knows about the situation...that is the order being Arawak (gone), Spainish, French, African.

The DR was a solidly Spainish area with Santa Domingo being one of the capitals of the West Indies region.

The original inhabitants (Arawaks I think) didn't fare too well under the Spainish and revolted...and were then decimated.

Edited January 22, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[Oleg Bach]

During Haiti's earliest post-Colombian days it was a haven for pirates and buccaneers (mostly French) who would raid the Spainish Treasure Fleets heading to the Florida Straights and back to Europe. Once older and retired from pirating, these same pirates (et al) later turned to agriculture and formed French colonies. The slaves from Africa soon followed (Code Noir, etc). Which shows how little Oleg actually knows about the situation...that is the order being Arawak (gone), Spainish, French, African.

The DR was a solidly Spainish area with Santa Domingo being one of the capitals of the West Indies region.

The original inhabitants (Arawaks I think) didn't fare too well under the Spainish and revolted...and were then decimated.

Thanks - the reason I posted this topic was to LEARN about how this situation originated. "Which shows how little Oleg actually knows" There is no problem with lack of knowledge..one can get enlightened..Ignoring and establishing ignorance as a perference is the great sin - I might not be formally educated but I am willing to learn - Unlike some of those who have been institutionalized by our schools - who only view things by what they were taught. As for Haiti - like all societies you must understand the origins. Still all I know is that people do not make themselves poor - someone has to inflict poverty - I was just wondering who most recently did it to Haiti and why.

[DogOnPorch]

You were jumping to conclusions re: Haiti. Who are the 'Haitians'??

...the colonialist powers love to put Haitians on a type of welfare designed not to heal but slowly destroy...

Edited January 22, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[Oleg Bach]

Haiti is on the black list - we have the same sort of list in our nation - If you offend a few powerful people..and are in the minds of these people useless in maintaining their very comfortable status quo - You will find out that your career goes no where and in time you will be poor - Haiti is offensive to some who wield great influence - If this was not true - we would see evidence of at least a bit of security and prosperity. We see very little. So - logic would dictate that some powerful bastards somewhere want Haiti to disappear. It really does remind me of a black version of Palistinians...If the Palistinians were a bit darker in complexion - they would be gone by now.

[DogOnPorch]

Haiti is on the black list - we have the same sort of list in our nation - If you offend a few powerful people..and are in the minds of these people useless in maintaining their very comfortable status quo - You will find out that your career goes no where and in time you will be poor - Haiti is offensive to some who wield great influence - If this was not true - we would see evidence of at least a bit of security and prosperity. We see very little. So - logic would dictate that some powerful bastards somewhere want Haiti to disappear. It really does remind me of a black version of Palistinians...If the Palistinians were a bit darker in complexion - they would be gone by now.

That's right Oleg. The earthquake was set off by the Americans just like Chavez said.

[bill_barilko]

OP is a wanker.

[Moonlight Graham]

Dominican baseball players sure make excellent economic exports.

Haiti has been f'ed by Western foreign policy and economic policy just like the rest of Latin America has since Columbus, only Haiti has been f'ed more than most of the others.

It's funny that we run telethons and donate mountains of cash to Haiti now in sincere caring for their well-being, but in a few months most people will be back to not reading the news & letting our gov'ts crap on Haiti and co. without giving a hoot.

We are a funny lot.

[eyeball]

Haiti is on the black list - we have the same sort of list in our nation - If you offend a few powerful people..and are in the minds of these people useless in maintaining their very comfortable status quo - You will find out that your career goes no where and in time you will be poor - Haiti is offensive to some who wield great influence - If this was not true - we would see evidence of at least a bit of security and prosperity. We see very little. So - logic would dictate that some powerful bastards somewhere want Haiti to disappear. It really does remind me of a black version of Palistinians...If the Palistinians were a bit darker in complexion - they would be gone by now.

I don't see the comparison between Palestine and Israel myself.

What does bear noting is that Haiti was the first black republic to declare independence. Your comment on offending powerful people in their comfortable status-quo is closer to the mark.

Haiti's regional, historical and ethnolinguistic position is unique for several reasons. It was the first independent nation in Latin America, the first post-colonial independent black-led nation in the world, and the only nation whose independence was gained as part of a successful slave rebellion

At the time this must have been even more frightening than having communists 90 miles offshore would be 150 years later. But to be fair to the US this development must have rocked colonialist European sensibilities everywhere.

I think the diddling Haiti has suffered at the hands of foreigners over the centuries is the biggest root cause behind its dysfunction, but its not hard to imagine skin complexion also plays at least some role in the two countries fortunes and misfortunes.

Haiti Ethnic groups 95.0% black, 5% mulatto and white[1]

Dominican Republic Ethnic groups 73% Multiracial, 16% White, 11% Black[1]

[DogOnPorch]

I think the diddling Haiti has suffered at the hands of foreigners over the centuries is the biggest root cause behind its dysfunction, but its not hard to imagine skin complexion also plays at least some role in the two countries fortunes and misfortunes.

'Foreigners' built Haiti...that would include the former slaves from Africa. There are few 'white' Haitians due to the slaughter of all Europeans (save some Poles) during and after the revolution.

[Topaz]

I'm wondering with all this money the world is collecting for these people if it will really ALL get to them. I remember in the past, it was reported that some of the money the Red Cross had didn't go to the people in need, part of it went to paying wages for their people. Is this still happening?

[eyeball]

I noticed the Poles were spared. Were Poles more civilised than most Europeans? I've never heard of a Polish Empire so it stands to reason they were certainly more ethical.

In any case, a near constant stream of interference of an aggressive diddling nature in Haiti by non-Haitians is the main reason the place is so FUBAR. The phenomenon is pretty well established.

As for skin complexion, lets face it the darker any country is the generally worse off it is.

[eyeball]

I'm wondering with all this money the world is collecting for these people if it will really ALL get to them. I remember in the past, it was reported that some of the money the Red Cross had didn't go to the people in need, part of it went to paying wages for their people. Is this still happening?

Of course it is, this is perfectly normal. I doubt if there are any large charities anywhere in the world that don't have administration and employee costs to factor in.

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm wondering with all this money the world is collecting for these people if it will really ALL get to them. I remember in the past, it was reported that some of the money the Red Cross had didn't go to the people in need, part of it went to paying wages for their people. Is this still happening?

Virtually every large non-profit development NGO has to take some money of the top for operational expenses. Staff need to earn a wage (people don't work full-time jobs for free!), offices need to be leased etc. So yes not 100% of the money gets directly to the people. However, i believe the generally accepted % of donations from a legit charity that go should directly to those in need is 85% or more. Anything below that is considered "fishy". So check out a charities' donation spending breakdown when you donate to a particular organization, most should have these budget #'s on their websites.

I have great doubts that all of the "donate-able" money will go to Haiti though. I'm sure some of the money will be used for other charity/relief projects around the world that each organization is working on. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

[DogOnPorch]

I noticed the Poles were spared. Were Poles more civilised than most Europeans? I've never heard of a Polish Empire so it stands to reason they were certainly more ethical.

In any case, a near constant stream of interference of an aggressive diddling nature in Haiti by non-Haitians is the main reason the place is so FUBAR. The phenomenon is pretty well established.

As for skin complexion, lets face it the darker any country is the generally worse off it is.

The Poles (some of them, not all of them) were deserters from Napoleon's expeditionary force to put down the rebellion. The expedition failed. All the Europeans were slaughtered save the mentioned exceptions. Poland has had 'empires' in the past. See: the Middle-Ages. Haiti...innocent as you'd like to portray, has a track record of 'diddling' in its neighbor's business, as well. See: Simon Bolivar for one. Haiti...like it or not...was started by French pirates operating out of areas like Tortuga and Grand/Petit Goave...yo-ho-ho. Africans were #4 on that end of the island after the Arawaks, Spainish, French. The sugar/tobacco/etc industry brought slaves for farm labor.

Edited January 25, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[Oleg Bach]

That's right Oleg. The earthquake was set off by the Americans just like Chavez said.

I never said such a stupid thing. So why are you insinuating that I did? Explaination please.

[Oleg Bach]

In this present time I would like someone to explain to me what the relationship is between the Dominican and Haiti - and why is their a division between the two? My question might just be as outrageous as asking why America runs a prison camp on the island of Cuba when supposedly there is a total embargo on the whole land mass? Just does not make sense to me.

[DogOnPorch]

I never said such a stupid thing. So why are you insinuating that I did? Explaination please.

You said...

"Haiti is on the black list - we have the same sort of list in our nation - If you offend a few powerful people..and are in the minds of these people useless in maintaining their very comfortable status quo - You will find out that your career goes no where and in time you will be poor - Haiti is offensive to some who wield great influence - If this was not true - we would see evidence of at least a bit of security and prosperity. We see very little. So - logic would dictate that some powerful bastards somewhere want Haiti to disappear. It really does remind me of a black version of Palistinians...If the Palistinians were a bit darker in complexion - they would be gone by now."

[Oleg Bach]

Of course that is true - but you were attempting to put some conspiracy lunacy in my mouth - that perhaps America had detonated a powerful explosive device along the fault line and caused this catastrophy - I believe you mentioned the rantings of Cheves..the Peruvian nut bar..... all I said was that there are cold Darwinist idiots in positions of influence who really have no use for what they believe are n***ers....so don't tell me that we don't have fat rich white cats that hate blacks and are willing to genoicde them incrimentally though monitary sanctions.

[DogOnPorch]

Of course that is true - but you were attempting to put some conspiracy lunacy in my mouth - that perhaps America had detonated a powerful explosive device along the fault line and caused this catastrophy - I believe you mentioned the rantings of Cheves..the Peruvian nut bar..... all I said was that there are cold Darwinist idiots in positions of influence who really have no use for what they believe are n***ers....so don't tell me that we don't have fat rich white cats that hate blacks and are willing to genoicde them incrimentally though monitary sanctions.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the ones guilty of 'genocide' in this situation were the Spainish (for butchering the Arawak) and the African slaves (for murdering all the Europeans).

[Oleg Bach]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the ones guilty of 'genocide' in this situation were the Spainish (for butchering the Arawak) and the African slaves (for murdering all the Europeans).

Those BLACK African slaves who murdered all those WHITE Europeans...I rest my case. You are right - we have not yet finished punishing Haiti or those damned Germans for burning half the planet down.

[DogOnPorch]

Both you and eyeball seem hung-up on race.

Haiti has been around a lot longer than Canada yet can't get its shit together. Across the water, Jamacia looms as another island country made up mainly of former slaves; a tourist mecca without many of the problems associated with Haiti. Yet the evil forces of white colonial European-ness leave Jamacia alone. Odd...don't you think? If it's all about 'black people' having countries, that is...