Environment, oilsands

William Ashley · January 8, 2010

Oh please! We can have the debate about whether Alberta could separate by peaceful or military means, but WOULD YOU DROP THE CRAP ABOUT BRITAIN??? Nobody here cares about what Charles may or may not think, nor could he do a damn thing. When it comes to affairs in Canada, he is completely impotent. The monarchy has absolutely SHIT to say about affairs here and are, for all intents and purposes, of no meaning worldwide. Canadians are not slaves, servants or subjects of the British crown and if some wannabe king tried to stick his nose in with force, he'd find it getting shot off.

Take all of the oilsands away? You're joking right? Under what authority is he going to do that? He can't even TRAVEL to Canada without the permission of the Canadian government. The man is going to be another figurehead that only matters to the British (if at all) and is there to make 60 year old spinsters swoon. Other than the awarding of the odd medal, he can't make policy, break policy, or fart without permission in Canada, let alone Alberta.

Get over your little rants about Britain.

Edit to add: Eyeball - nobody in this province would give a good god damn about the "claims" of a bunch of indians. That's a Canadian Liberal thing, not an Albertan one. Nice try.

I have the feeling someone is American or a turncoat.

Members of the Royal family such as Charles are 3rd in order of precedence in Canada after the Govenor General and before the Prime Minister.

Edited January 8, 2010 by William Ashley

Topaz · January 8, 2010

I watched the senate hearings on natural resources and they were talking about the oil sand and its production, being second in the world, Saudis Arabia. That it would ever run out of oil but that the oil sand industry would probably price themselves out of business and other cheaper tech ideas would have to replace oil.

Jerry J. Fortin · January 8, 2010

like I said... you're currently running a deficit... you have little to no diversification - you're a one-trick pony... you rely entirely upon a non-renewable resource, one the world is moving rapidly away from (whether you see/accept it, or not), you've squandered past opportunities to save/invest your revenue wealth... you have decaying infrastructure... you are losing more people than those that are coming into the province... your population is urbanizing - your rural separatist roots are increasingly vanishing.

in any case, about those unique Alberta values... from your distinct society - again, what are those values?

I don't think you understand us dude. Our idea of running a deficit is dipping into one of our bank accounts. We don't have to borrow money from anyone.

Jerry J. Fortin · January 8, 2010

Look folks, why not we stop bashing each other and look at the root cause of our mutual problems. The feds. These guys suck us all dry on a regular basis ! IF we, Albertans decide to stay in confederation, some changes are going to be required. Reworking the entire concept of equalization is one little hill to climb, but there are many others.

Albertans know how much Ontario and other provinces have contributed to our economic growth. We are not fools, separation would not be easy. We don't want to separate, but if push comes to shove what the hell else can we do. We have no real political say, elections are over by the time they get to the Manitoba border. Folks just try to see things from our point of view. How about the CWB ? Remember the Crow rate? How about the NEP? How would your citizens respond to these things while not having enough representatives in the house to have a real say?

eyeball · January 8, 2010

Our mutual problems, as citizens, is the near complete absence of accountable governance and representation. The provinces are just as bad as the feds. Separation to just that level alone won't cut it.

Its how we govern ourselves not who's governing us that is the issue, or should be.

Jerry J. Fortin · January 9, 2010

Our mutual problems, as citizens, is the near complete absence of accountable governance and representation. The provinces are just as bad as the feds. Separation to just that level alone won't cut it.

Its how we govern ourselves not who's governing us that is the issue, or should be.

I agree with you there! It is not a simple fix. I favour a republic myself.

capricorn · January 9, 2010

Look folks, why not we stop bashing each other and look at the root cause of our mutual problems. The feds. These guys suck us all dry on a regular basis !

I take it by "us" you don't mean just Alberta and Albertans but you include all Canadians? With that meaning in mind, the feds only respond to what Canadians constantly asked for. Top of the list is more and more social programs. Well there comes a time when the bills for those programs have to be paid. To pay those bills the feds have to tap whatever revenue sources they can get away with. Occasionally, they will identify and cut an expenditure but any time this is done it is met with howls of disapproval. Here's an example from today's Globe. I won't quote from it, look at it if you want and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/conservatives-stop-funding-for-learning-organization/article1423912/

Those types of roadblocks make it very difficult for a government of any stripe to be fiscally responsible.

eyeball · January 9, 2010

I agree with you there! It is not a simple fix. I favour a republic myself.

I favour a confederation of smaller regions within the same constitutional framework.

I'd say get rid of the provinces before the provinces get rid of Canada, but that said, if the provinces do start separating expect separatist movements within provinces to bloom across this land. I guess we can always confederate once we get our separate houses in order and under local control.

So there are NO First Nations, or other cultural/social/biogeoclimatic divisions that might appear in Alberta as a result of it's separation?

Haida Gwaii and Vancouver Island seem like natural examples of the type of division I mean in B.C. The Cree in Quebec of course have made their feelings clear on the issue.

fellowtraveller · January 9, 2010

like I said... you're currently running a deficit... you have little to no diversification - you're a one-trick pony... you rely entirely upon a non-renewable resource, one the world is moving rapidly away from (whether you see/accept it, or not), you've squandered past opportunities to save/invest your revenue wealth... you have decaying infrastructure... you are losing more people than those that are coming into the province... your population is urbanizing - your rural separatist roots are increasingly vanishing.

in any case, about those unique Alberta values... from your distinct society - again, what are those values?

You're absolutely right, and I hopoe you will work very very hard to rid the country of the abomination that is Alberta. Who would want scum like this in their warm embrace of federalism?

Hydraboss · January 9, 2010

like I said... you're currently running a deficit... you have little to no diversification - you're a one-trick pony... you rely entirely upon a non-renewable resource, one the world is moving rapidly away from (whether you see/accept it, or not),

You really, really don't know what the hell you're talking about do you?

We rely entirely upon TWO non-renewable resources.

Do some research. Just wander down to one of the nine Starbucks on your block, ask the gay guy if you can use the computer next to his non-gender-specific life partner, order a non-fat, decaf, iced mixed carmel macchiato and turn on the iMac. Google "neanderthal civilizations", click on the link that lists "Alberta" and do some reading while listening to Atif Aslam on your ipod.

You too can learn. Learning is fun.

Hydraboss · January 9, 2010

I have the feeling someone is American or a turncoat.

As soon as the recession turns the corner in the States, I'm being transferred down there. The unemployment numbers have put a hold on that for the moment.

Members of the Royal family such as Charles are 3rd in order of precedence in Canada after the Govenor General and before the Prime Minister.

Really? How many laws have they written in Canada in the last thirty or so years? How many have they struck down? So is Charles going to come over again and spank Stephen? Maybe make him speak Queen's English instead of that boorish dialect he now uses? Is he going to command Canadian troops overseas? Why does Britain ask for help? Why not just have OUR FUTURE KING direct us hither and thither?

Oh yeah, forgot, HE'S A VERY IMPOTENT PERSON!!!

Hydraboss · January 9, 2010

So there are NO First Nations, or other cultural/social/biogeoclimatic divisions that might appear in Alberta as a result of it's separation?

Haida Gwaii and Vancouver Island seem like natural examples of the type of division I mean in B.C. The Cree in Quebec of course have made their feelings clear on the issue.

Right now, indians have reserves and for the most part they stay on them to maintain tax-free status and free housing/medical/drug plans/food/travel by ambulance/paycheques/etc/etc/etc.

If Alberta were to separate, you may see some changes to that. And not in favor of the indians.

William Ashley · January 9, 2010

Look folks, why not we stop bashing each other and look at the root cause of our mutual problems. The feds. These guys suck us all dry on a regular basis ! IF we, Albertans decide to stay in confederation, some changes are going to be required. Reworking the entire concept of equalization is one little hill to climb, but there are many others.

Albertans know how much Ontario and other provinces have contributed to our economic growth. We are not fools, separation would not be easy. We don't want to separate, but if push comes to shove what the hell else can we do. We have no real political say, elections are over by the time they get to the Manitoba border. Folks just try to see things from our point of view. How about the CWB ? Remember the Crow rate? How about the NEP? How would your citizens respond to these things while not having enough representatives in the house to have a real say?

You know what based upon politicians coming from Alberta and the partisan system I totally agree. If Alberta wants its own way its going to have to Seperate from the federation and oppress the minority liberals. Cause I'm sure there are no Albertans who don't have a voice due to the Province always ending up Conservative run.

Look at the population demographic ... wonder how those 1 million people who vote green party feel under harper?

Edited January 9, 2010 by William Ashley

Hydraboss · January 9, 2010

Look at the population demographic ... wonder how those 1 million people who vote green party feel under harper?

Same as they felt before Harper. Stoned.

William Ashley · January 9, 2010

As soon as the recession turns the corner in the States, I'm being transferred down there. The unemployment numbers have put a hold on that for the moment.

Ah good luck with that, I'd apply for the VISA sooner rather than later.

Really? How many laws have they written in Canada in the last thirty or so years?

Thier role isn't to "make law" that is the role of the legislature. The Royals are "executive" meaning they are there to protect Canadians rights and security, by heading the military and justice system. They arn't suppose to be partisan or political that is directly contrary to all the lessons learned, although they can be. For instance Charles has openly voiced his dissent on GMO foods. The Queen has taken some steps to insure that Water Fowl in her areas such as Swans are maintained.

The Queen also has a choice of dog, and likes horses. The list goes on and on, she also likes making her family very rich. She has many times put herself out there for people, actually she lives under armed gaurd and is a 100% a civil servant, for pretty much her entire life. Charles served in the military, and has taken an active role in many volunteer organizations. He has helped to stem issues such racism, and communism err human rights issues. Each of those Royal institutions has had a sovereign back it for that official title. While they may be active in some ways they as supporters of democracy have not tried to assert themselves against the laws that the houses of Parliament have determined are in the best interest of Canada, clearly she hasn't had enough cause to openly dispute any particular legislation, as she is suppose to act on the advice of her council - unless such an important issues as to require use of reserve powers.

How many have they struck down?

The courts have quashed some laws ruling them unconstitutional. They have no been appealed to her, as far as I'm aware, although technically each Canadian is suppose to have the right to redress.

So is Charles going to come over again and spank Stephen?

I'm not so sure of that, it is the summer, there is plenty of time before then.

Maybe make him speak Queen's English instead of that boorish dialect he now uses?

There are many different ways of speaking English in Canada, why are suddently people who are foreigners unwelcome in Canada? The Queen has probably spent more time involved in Canada than you yourself has. She is someone who for 60 years of her life has oversaw administration of the country.

Is he going to command Canadian troops overseas?

He does have a military rank, General of the Army and Admiral in the Navy. And technically if he was required to could. He is a pilot and has commanded Naval Ships.

Why does Britain ask for help?

What is this?

Why not just have OUR FUTURE KING direct us hither and thither?

He probably knows a little here and there about military tactics having served for
Oh yeah, forgot, HE'S A VERY IMPOTENT PERSON!!!

hmm not sure what you are saying.

Edited January 9, 2010 by William Ashley

William Ashley · January 9, 2010

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Edited January 9, 2010 by William Ashley

Tesla · January 9, 2010

I really don't give a damn what the feds say about ALBERTA'S natural resources.

I believe you're looking at this in the wrong light. Democracy requires that all sectors of a nation are inextricably tied. Thus any event that alters the economy of one province has direct impacts on the economic state of the others. And there is also the environmental effects which are everyone's problem, no matter where you are.

Smallc · January 9, 2010

You'll have to forgive the Alberta separatists. They don't really understand what Canada, the Constitution or representative democracy are about.

blueblood · January 9, 2010

You'll have to forgive the Alberta separatists. They don't really understand what Canada, the Constitution or representative democracy are about.

Understanding is one thing, thinking something is BS is another.

I'd say the Albertans in all their justified rage know quite a bit about Canada, the constitution and representative democracy. They'd have to if they are going to justify their claims that it is BS.

Put yourself in their shoes, if you were contributing as much as they were and things are going good, would you be upset if someone thousands of miles away wanted to take all that away from you?

Smallc · January 9, 2010

I don't think about things only in terms of dollars and cents. A country (and a province) is far more than that. Yes, Alberta has wealth, but by virtue of its location, and because it's in a society - this country - that has allowed it to become so much more than it could have been almost anywhere else. Albertans owe just as much to Canada as any Manitobans or Quebecois in the country. When we start reducing Canada and this Confederation to simple dollars and cents, then we lose sight of who we truly are.

Many on the far right (and the far left for that matter) who are always complaining about something seem to have forgotten what Canada is and how very lucky they are to be a part of it. They seem to have forgotten that without the 'welfare state of Quebec' there would have been no Canada and so no Alberta and so no Alberta wealth. They seem to have forgotten that without men who lived in Ontario, who sat in the parliament in Ottawa, there would not be the Constitutional Monarchy with the Parliamentary Democracy that has allowed them (and BC, and Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland and Labrador) to flourish. They forget that without the support of Ontario for half a century, Alberta would never have become the place that it is today.

So much seems to be forgotten, and I think that Albertans forget it at their own peril, and possibly the peril of all Canadians.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Smallc

bush_cheney2004 · January 9, 2010

.... They forget that without the support of Ontario for half a century, Alberta would never have become the place that it is today.

So much seems to be forgotten, and I think that Albertans forget it at their own peril, and possibly the peril of all Canadians.

Point of order please...without American and other foreign investment, Alberta (indeed, other parts of Canada as well) would not be what they are today, but that doesn't mean that political self determination is owned by outsiders or foreigners.