Swiss Move to Stop Radicle Islam!

[ironstone]

Perhaps the Swiss are thinking of the "cartoon furor" a few years ago.Remember the calls for violence from Muslim leaders,death threats and so on?All over some bloody cartoon.Is it any wonder that people are wary of Islam these days?Are there examples of leaders of other faiths openly issuing death sentences on others?

[Peter F]

Perhaps the Swiss are thinking of the "cartoon furor" a few years ago.Remember the calls for violence from Muslim leaders,death threats and so on?All over some bloody cartoon.Is it any wonder that people are wary of Islam these days?Are there examples of leaders of other faiths openly issuing death sentences on others?

hmmm...I'm still don't understand how mosque's lacking minarets combats that...

[JB Globe]

Perhaps a violent riot is needed in Switzerland to underline the peaceful nature of Islam.

Too bad Swiss Muslims are among the most well-integrated in Europe.

Which makes the minaret ban even more ridiculous, there are more than a few parents who are thinking: "what are our kids going to think? We do so much to fit in, and they still think we're the enemy."

Talk about a self-fufiling prophecy on the part of the Swiss who voted yes.

[JB Globe]

No you are right i support the Swiss completely! they have sent a powerful message to the Muslims that they have a right to their religion but they will only allow so much!

Why did they feel they needed to send a message? Swiss Muslims are one of the most well-integrated religious minorities in Europe, there are only 4 minarets out of 400 mosques, none of them taller than any of the churches in the same towns. Why does this law only apply to Muslims? Why are Sikhs and Hindus still allowed to build huge towers?

Can you even find one instance where discriminating against a minority group and repealing their constitutional rights resulted in LESS isolation and MORE integration?

An why did they feel they needed to violate the constitution in order to send this message?

Are there some things that should just not be decided by popular vote? What if the Swiss decided that women's right to vote should be repealed, would you still back the popular vote then?

My question is if Islam is so peaceful then why are they worried about Muslim extremism backlash because of the vote...what does that tell you about this religion?

Because Islam isn't a peaceful religion, it's a religion capable of both peace and violence, much like Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism.

And for the record, so far all of the opposition has been vocal.

You also forgot to mention that the Vatican condemned the minaret ban in very harsh words, now why would that be?

[JB Globe]

[The article does seem indicate that those who support the ban feel as if they are helping to stop, ie: not allow a "growth of ...," radical Islam/Shariah law, or probably more correctly at least stop further representation of it.

The thing is, I don't understand their reasoning - minarets have absolutely nothing to do with Sharia law or radical Islam. It's like saying a church steeple is simply a symbol of Imperialism because of what the catholic church did in the Spanish & Portuguese empires.

[JB Globe]

And I agree with you. As I said, I'm very surprised Switzerland passed such a ban, especially in light of the fact that the majority of the Swiss voters evidently don't support it.

What's especially concerning is how many Swiss feminists joined in on the "yes" side - they thought that banning minarets would prevent women from being abused. I find the idea ridiculous - feminists in league with far-right nationalist parties that traditionally have been quite patriarchal.

But of course, it's not as if culturally ignorant feminists haven't been paternalistic and demeaning towards women of colour and of religious minorities before, I'm sure it won't be the last time.

[JB Globe]

Perhaps the Swiss are thinking of the "cartoon furor" a few years ago.Remember the calls for violence from Muslim leaders,death threats and so on?

And how much of that violence and occurred within Switzerland?

Maybe they should be thinking more of what was going on in their own country at the time of the cartoons - maybe then they'd realize just how peaceful and integrated Swiss Muslims are.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I have a question. How the fuck does banning a peice of architecture stop radical islam? Seems to me it would serve to piss off the non-radicals. and if your going to ban one religous item you have to ban all of them which means no church bell towers or whatever the fuck the equivilant would be on synagogues. I have no problem banning things like this, we had a church tower in my town demoished because it made to much damn noise, but I am against disciminating against one group. I'm also against bullshit statement like banning miranets will somehow stop radicals.

Edited December 2, 2009 by TrueMetis

[DogOnPorch]

Too bad Swiss Muslims are among the most well-integrated in Europe.

Which makes the minaret ban even more ridiculous, there are more than a few parents who are thinking: "what are our kids going to think? We do so much to fit in, and they still think we're the enemy."

Talk about a self-fufiling prophecy on the part of the Swiss who voted yes.

Hey...it doesn't have to happen in Bern. Any European city will do.

[DogOnPorch]

I have a question. How the fuck does banning a peice of architecture stop radicle islam? Seems to me it would serve to piss off the non-radicals. and if your going to ban one religous item you have to ban all of them which means no church bell towers or whatever the fuck the equivilant would be on synagogues. I have no problem banning things like this, we had a church tower in my town demoished because it made to much damn noise, but I am against disciminating against one group. I'm also against bullshit statement like banning miranets will somehow stop radicals.

I believe the word is iconoclasm (in the classic sense)...the Swiss...a reasonable people by most reports...seem to think it's happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm

Edited December 2, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[Guest TrueMetis]

I believe the word is iconoclasm (in the classic sense)...the Swiss...a reasonable people by most reports...seem to think it's happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm

Then why not just require them to look a certain way. If they can make a Mosque look like this they can make it look Swedish.

[DogOnPorch]

Then why not just require them to look a certain way. If they can make a Mosque look like this they can make it look Swedish.

Being that Switzerland belongs to the Swiss, I'd say they can pretty much do what they want with their country. Their voting system reflects this.

[Guest American Woman]

Being that Switzerland belongs to the Swiss, I'd say they can pretty much do what they want with their country.

In spite of my earlier comments, you are correct. It is their country, and the Swiss have many rules in place to ensure that their country is what it is. It's what they want, and they have every right to it. So if they don't want what they perceive as more visible signs springing up of what they see as unrepresentative of their country and what it stands for, they do have that right. The rest of the world can be critical, but it is Switzerland's right to do what Switzerland wants regarding their country, just as the Arab nations fully exercise their right to do what they want regarding not allowing western influences to penetrate their country.

Basically the whole world is comprised of a mix of this, that, and the other thing, with Islam being boldly represented in that mix, except for the Arab world, where it is nothing but Islam. So I really fail to see how Muslims, especially those living in the Muslim world, have room to criticize one without criticizing the other.

Edited December 2, 2009 by American Woman

[Peter F]

Of course the Swiss get to do whatever they want, as does everybody else. That the Swiss are not seeking permission is not the issue. What the swiss have done is being held up by Wulf as a shining example of how to deal with Muslim fundamentalism and Sharia Law. Wulf says we should do the same in this country. JBGlobe has asked how mosques lacking minarets works towards achieving his goal.

I think its a really good question.

[DogOnPorch]

I think its a really good question.

I said iconoclasm...is their a better excuse? Some British towns have really changed in appearance re: number of minarets poking skyward. Perhaps the Swiss want to avoid this.

[DogOnPorch]

AW: Basically the whole world is comprised of a mix of this, that, and the other thing, with Islam being boldly represented in that mix, except for the Arab world, where it is nothing but Islam. So I really fail to see how Muslims, especially those living in the Muslim world, have room to criticize one without criticizing the other.

Canada is more generous than most re: being the world's welcome mat. The US as well. We're just not used to not acting PC. As well, being fundamental Islam's message seems to be along the lines of...

We're coming to get you and your decadent ways, infidal. Convert or die!

...people have a right to be suspicious of so-called moderate Islam...or any form of Islam.

[Michael Hardner]

...people have a right to be suspicious of so-called moderate Islam...or any form of Islam.

Of course people have a right to be suspicious, so what ? People have a right to hold ridiculous opinions, but how those opinions play out in the public sphere determines, to a large degree, how far those opinions go.

This is pretty much a gut-level reaction to outsiders coming in, and as such there's nothing behind it but emotion.

[DogOnPorch]

Of course people have a right to be suspicious, so what ? People have a right to hold ridiculous opinions, but how those opinions play out in the public sphere determines, to a large degree, how far those opinions go.

This is pretty much a gut-level reaction to outsiders coming in, and as such there's nothing behind it but emotion.

So what? Just because we're painfully PC doesn't mean every country should be like us.

[Michael Hardner]

So what? Just because we're painfully PC doesn't mean every country should be like us.

So you're ok with emotional reactions to complex issues ? You don't think things need to be though through reasonably, and that we should just react ?

You'd better switch sides in the Global Warming debate then.

[Black Dog]

I have a question. How the fuck does banning a peice of architecture stop radicle islam?

I have a question too: what the fuck is "radicle Islam" and is it related at all to radical Islam?

[DogOnPorch]

So you're ok with emotional reactions to complex issues ? You don't think things need to be though through reasonably, and that we should just react ?

You'd better switch sides in the Global Warming debate then.

I'm not Swiss. I assume you're not Swiss. But here we have the typical PC-Police reaction to Switzerland's decision. Who says they didn't 'think it through'...you?? Let's shame Switzerland by calling them racist and Islamophobic for not wanting to be all PC-multicultural like us morally superior types in Canada.

Screw you Heidi...wear the veil.

[DogOnPorch]

I have a question too: what the fuck is "radicle Islam" and is it related at all to radical Islam?

Yes...I'm surprised at the number of botanists, too.

[BubberMiley]

I think radicles are those icy things that hang from your radiator when your coolant freezes and your rad explodes.

[DogOnPorch]

I think radicles are those icy things that hang from your radiator when your coolant freezes and your rad explodes.

A radicle is actually part of a seed. Where the root pops out.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm not Swiss. I assume you're not Swiss. But here we have the typical PC-Police reaction to Switzerland's decision. Who says they didn't 'think it through'...you?? Let's shame Switzerland by calling them racist and Islamophobic for not wanting to be all PC-multicultural like us morally superior types in Canada.

Well, where's the logic ? There is none. It's an emotional reaction, based on xenophobia although I wouldn't go as far as your claims of racism and Islamophobia.