Gunman kills 12, wounds 30 at Fort Hood

[Gabriel]

That may sadly be true. What is clear right now is that we really know nothing, and are arguing about what we know.

STOP SAYING WE KNOW NOTHING! Why do you insist on spreading such lies? A lot has been learned about the killer. A lot of information has been unearthed about him that shapes a convincing picture of what his motivations were. This obsession among the left to walk on eggshells with respect to analyzing this man's motivation(s) is MADDENING.

YOU know nothing, but please keep your mouth shut and don't extrapolate that condition to the rest of us. Some of us have actually been following this story and know a thing or two and have come to reasonable conclusions based on relevant information. That's not to say we won't learn more about this killer as time goes on, but to spread stupidity along the lines of "...right now we really know nothing" is the height of irresponsibility.

EDIT - I think I'll just ignore Sin Bandelot from here on out. I joined this forum looking for intelligent dialogue with honest people. I'll stick to responding to those persons that qualify.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Gabriel

[Oleg Bach]

That may sadly be true. What is clear right now is that we really know nothing, and are arguing about what we know.

All we have are emotional media pic bites and hear say. The core of this story is yet to be told. Personally I believe that it is a great embarassment to the military - to the mental health industry - and to those that push tolerance of EVERYTHING no matter what the cost. Look at the fact that Saudi Arabia funded in part the 911 attack..and nothing was done..that's a deep embarassment to the administration...and that the flyers were trained on American soil - another grievious embarassment...What you might see here is the grandest cover up..someone will start to spin this story in favour of present policy. Frankly - and I know this might hurt the feelings of the poltically correct crowed - But what good can come from a war where we are the invaders?

I remember hitch hiking across Canada during the Viet Nam era. I got a long ride by a former American sniper..He wore the "Gooks" sandles...he had a dired ear as a keep sake - some gold teeth on a chain - and he said he knew he hit his target when he say the red spray in the distance - This vet was clearly nuts..and that is the problem here - War breeds mental illness...it always has.

[Shady]

STOP SAYING WE KNOW NOTHING!

He must be purposely acting obtuse. It's the only way to explain it. It's like standing outside on a beautiful sunny day and asking what the weather is like. He knows nothing because he chooses to. It's all part of his ilk.

[Sir Bandelot]

I don't understand why you folks are getting so worked up over this thread. I give my input without attacking you. Ad-hominem attacks on me will not tolerated.

[Sir Bandelot]

STOP SAYING WE KNOW NOTHING! Why do you insist on spreading such lies? A lot has been learned about the killer. A lot of information has been unearthed about him that shapes a convincing picture of what his motivations were. This obsession among the left to walk on eggshells with respect to analyzing this man's motivation(s) is MADDENING.

YOU know nothing, but please keep your mouth shut and don't extrapolate that condition to the rest of us. Some of us have actually been following this story and know a thing or two and have come to reasonable conclusions based on relevant information. That's not to say we won't learn more about this killer as time goes on, but to spread stupidity along the lines of "...right now we really know nothing" is the height of irresponsibility.

EDIT - I think I'll just ignore Sin Bandelot from here on out. I joined this forum looking for intelligent dialogue with honest people. I'll stick to responding to those persons that qualify.

Please see link-

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=15310&view=findpost&p=480758

[Gabriel]

All we have are emotional media pic bites and hear say. The core of this story is yet to be told. Personally I believe that it is a great embarassment to the military - to the mental health industry - and to those that push tolerance of EVERYTHING no matter what the cost. Look at the fact that Saudi Arabia funded in part the 911 attack..and nothing was done..that's a deep embarassment to the administration...and that the flyers were trained on American soil - another grievious embarassment...What you might see here is the grandest cover up..someone will start to spin this story in favour of present policy. Frankly - and I know this might hurt the feelings of the poltically correct crowed - But what good can come from a war where we are the invaders?

I remember hitch hiking across Canada during the Viet Nam era. I got a long ride by a former American sniper..He wore the "Gooks" sandles...he had a dired ear as a keep sake - some gold teeth on a chain - and he said he knew he hit his target when he say the red spray in the distance - This vet was clearly nuts..and that is the problem here - War breeds mental illness...it always has.

As for you, you are so desperately trying to connect this story to the psychological stress experienced by soldiers in combat. There is not yet one shred of evidence suggesting that Major Hasan suffered from psychological disorders or mental illness, let alone conditions associated with military/combat stress (you know he's never been deployed, right?). Please spare us your misinformation regarding psychology. Suggesting that military combat necessarily damages one's psychological state simply isn't true. To suggest such a thing illustrates that you know nothing about psychology on any level. Spare us your armchair expertise. And let's get back to the topic - Major Hasan and his motivations, and likely failures on behalf of the military and intelligence services.

[Oleg Bach]

9 11 was a failure in intelligence - Now we have a mini- 9 11 that took place at Fort Hood. You would think that someone would keep an eye on this stuff - Maybe the American high arch along with the military industrial complex want these types of incidents to justify what they do? Maybe they just turn a blind eye to crazed Muslim extremists in their midst? Maybe they allow it .. or maybe they are just plain stupid? Oh and while I am at it...put it this way as far as metal illness and warfare - be it mental and spiritual warfare and physical warfare....

.eg....Test a man for mental changes before he has taken the life of another human being...then test him after he has killed..There will be a difference that is negative in quality. What I did notice about our military is that people were walking about saying that it was good to break in our troops by "bloodying them" as if they were hound dogs being trained to hunt...what a joke...Let them lick blood and you have a good soldier? Insane..is what you get.

[lictor616]

You're exactly right. Case in point, ABC News, who's anchors, and I quote "wished his name was Smith" because they were worried of a so-called reflexive question as to his religious motives.

Heads in the sand. Don't want their false illusions destroyed.

the news actors know that Political Correctness and multiculturalism are houses of cards that cannot withstand any scrutiny or criticism... and that's why no one in the controlled mass media dares say anything about the obvious facts of this case...

That these are the side effects of an insane immigration and integration policy...

Edited November 9, 2009 by lictor616

[GostHacked]

Stop lying about the story. The conflicting reports were only taking place during the first hours of this story breaking. You are posting links to information from the early hours of this story (during the hours of chaos) and portraying that as representative of what we now know about this case (and specifically about Major Hasan). Within less than 24 hours all of the misinformation had been clarified. Clearly you have not been following this story. Either follow the story, listen to press conferences, and read the most up-to-date information, or don't participate in this discussion.

Seems like I hit a nerver here. How the heck am I lying when I simply posed a question. How the heck am I lying when I am basing my post off of news reports??? I have been following this story, that is why this is of interest to me.

[BubberMiley]

the news actors know that Political Correctness ....

But Shady's already been proved to be misrepresenting the facts. The ABC news anchors were only reporting on what the wife of one of the shooting victims said.

The link that was provided had a dishonest headline that suggested the anchor people were stating it as their own opinions, but at least the article itself was honest. What ABC said was:

We heard Martha Raddatz say last night that the wife of a soldier said ‘I wish his name had been Smith,’ so no one would have a reflexive question about [a religious motive].

[Shady]

How the heck am I lying when I am basing my post off of news reports???

You're posting old and completely outdated information. It'd be like posting a report now that on Sept 11th, a small commuter plan accidentally crashed into Tower #1. It's old, and inaccurate.

But Shady's already been proved to be misrepresenting the facts.

Nope, not at all. It wasn't just Martha Raddatz. Diane Sawyer mentioned that same thing during a seperate broadcast. It's a theme the mainstream media is running with. Add in Newsweek's Evan Thomas and NPR's Nina Totenberg.

Thomas: "I cringe that he's a Muslim. I mean, because it inflames all the fears. I think he's probably just a nut case. But with that label attached to him, it will get the right wing going and it just -- I mean these things are tragic, but that makes it much worse."

Totenberg: It really is tragic that he was a Muslim.”

Yeah, it's just too damn bad he's a Muslim. And I'm sure, if the shooter would have been Christian, and targeting a doctor, they'd have the same kind of handwringing. "It's just too bad he was a Christian." NOT!!!!!!!!!!

[Gabriel]

Seems like I hit a nerver here. How the heck am I lying when I simply posed a question. How the heck am I lying when I am basing my post off of news reports??? I have been following this story, that is why this is of interest to me.

It's quite simple. Allow me to explain again: you are lying because you're posting old videos/reports about this story which have since been corrected. Don't post old videos//reports that have since been corrected as current news in order to mislead those who are in here who might actually be trying to learn a thing or two about this story. There aren't anymore conflicting reports about this story. There are still, however, liars who are attempting to pretend that we don't know why the killer did he what he did.

"Why did he do it?" is now a question reserved for idiots with respect to this story. Non-idiots know why this man committed mass murder.

[GostHacked]

It's quite simple. Allow me to explain again: you are lying because you're posting old videos/reports about this story which have since been corrected. .....

Hmm. Sensitive. I posted videos, I asked a question. And how would you take it that I am lying by using old news reports? If anything you would call that disingenuous. But hardly lying.

[qoute]"Why did he do it?" is now a question reserved for idiots with respect to this story. Non-idiots know why this man committed mass murder.

Well, at least he does not have to go to Iraq, or whereever he was going to be deployed. That's one way of avoiding duty. Not the smartest... for a psychologist. He could have just classified himself as a conciencious objector and got out somehow. But, you are right, who the heck knows!

[BubberMiley]

Diane Sawyer mentioned that same thing during a seperate broadcast. It's a theme the mainstream media is running with. Add in Newsweek's Evan Thomas and NPR's Nina Totenberg.

Yup, that quote was Diane Sawyer. If you knew what you were talking about, you would have known that. So the MSM is "running" with a story by referencing something a soldier's wife said or are you just making up "half-truths" again to make a point that isn't there?

Edited November 10, 2009 by BubberMiley

[BC_chick]

Gabriel, I'm not defending this guy, but I do think he had the same screw loose in his brain as any of the school-shooters that we hear about from time to time.

Many Muslims hate what America does but they don't go 'postal' and start shooting randomly... the same way many kids feel lonely and depressed and listen to death metal music, but they don't act on it and start shooting up their universities.

There is something wrong with the way the brain of these people processes perceived 'injustices' in the world.

But to blame it solely on the guy's religion is a tad harsh in face of the many similar instances of similar crimes by non-Muslim people.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel, I'm not defending this guy, but I do think he had the same screw loose in his brain as any of the school-shooters that we hear about from time to time.

Many Muslims hate what America does but they don't go 'postal' and start shooting randomly... the same way many kids feel lonely and depressed and listen to death metal music, but they don't act on it and start shooting up their universities.

There is something wrong with the way the brain of these people processes perceived 'injustices' in the world.

But to blame it solely on the guy's religion is a tad harsh in face of the many similar instances of similar crimes by non-Muslim people.

I NEVER BLAMED HIS RELIGION! What is wrong with you? How can you NOT understand what I am explaining so clearly? Islam did not cause him to kill people. I never said anything even *remotely* suggesting that Islam is responsible for this crime. Islam isn't some sort of monolithic concept, anyways. Islam is and means different things to millions of different Muslims. What's important is to analyze his particular perspectives of Islam and how they shaped his overall ideology. Read the article I linked from Newsweek, where the imam at the mosque he attended has disturbing exchanges with Major Hasan regarding his views on Islam and politics (let's not be naive and pretend that there isn't any overlap between religion and politics in the minds of many people). This man's extremist views and statements would still be extremely alarming if he wasn't a Muslim!

I cannot believe how many people, who are clearly able to turn on their computers and utilize the internet (illustrating minimal intelligence, at the very least), vigorously attempt to mischaracterize my statements. It is un-friggin'-believable. Clearly some people are just obsessed with seeing prejudice and racism wherever they look.

We'll have to wait and see if there is any evidence of mental illness in this case. I'm going to assume that he is of sound mind, and that mental illness will only be brought up by his supporters/lawyers, without a shred of evidence.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Gabriel

[Sir Bandelot]

We'll have to wait and see if there is any evidence of mental illness in this case.

We don't have to wait any longer.

[Shady]

Yup, that quote was Diane Sawyer. If you knew what you were talking about, you would have known that. So the MSM is "running" with a story by referencing something a soldier's wife said or are you just making up "half-truths" again to make a point that isn't there?

Nope, not at all. If you read my previous post, it contained two other, seperate references to the same theme. "Gosh, I really wish this guy wasn't a Muslim." What they're really saying is "gosh, I wish I could hold on to the fake illusion I have of the world." The mainstream media needs to stick to reporting facts, not proselytizing their dreams and wishes.

[Shady]

We don't have to wait any longer.

That's true. He suffers from the same mental illness that afflicts Osama Bin Laden.

[BubberMiley]

That's true. He suffers from the same mental illness that afflicts Osama Bin Laden.

It's nice when we can agree on something. I also think that religion is a mental illness whereby people, for some reason, willingly deny reason in favour of ancient, deceptive texts that have been created by people to control and manipulate other people.

Cheers.

[Shady]

It's nice when we can agree on something.

Absolutely.

[Shady]

It looks as though political correctness played a large part in this tragedy.

PC'd to death: The Army must give answers

"His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's 'anti-American propaganda,' but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal written complaint," The Associated Press reported over the weekend.

Link

I really think it's now time for those of you on the political left, to write the families of the dead and wounded. And apologize for contributing to the PC environment which directly led to tragic incident at Fort Hood. :angry:

[Michael Hardner]

Shady,

I really think it's now time for those of you on the political left, to write the families of the dead and wounded. And apologize for contributing to the PC environment which directly led to tragic incident at Fort Hood.

This is sanctimonious garbage. What past events would you expect to write apologies for ? I think know the answer: nothing.

Self-righteousness is a failing too.

[Pliny]

I NEVER BLAMED HIS RELIGION! What is wrong with you? How can you NOT understand what I am explaining so clearly? Islam did not cause him to kill people. I never said anything even *remotely* suggesting that Islam is responsible for this crime. Islam isn't some sort of monolithic concept, anyways. Islam is and means different things to millions of different Muslims. What's important is to analyze his particular perspectives of Islam and how they shaped his overall ideology. Read the article I linked from Newsweek, where the imam at the mosque he attended has disturbing exchanges with Major Hasan regarding his views on Islam and politics (let's not be naive and pretend that there isn't any overlap between religion and politics in the minds of many people). This man's extremist views and statements would still be extremely alarming if he wasn't a Muslim!

It is true you never blamed his religion. You said it was religious extremism. Besides Islam, no other religion is killing non-believers in the name of their religion. Other religions have learned that lesson and kill for some other reason. Perhaps political.

I think, as I did, that most people today equate religious extremist terrorism with Islamic fundamentalism so their conclusions are that Muslims must be scrutinized. It is a logical assumption from your statement although I know you are careful not to want to blame all of Islam for this tragedy.

We'll have to wait and see if there is any evidence of mental illness in this case. I'm going to assume that he is of sound mind, and that mental illness will only be brought up by his supporters/lawyers, without a shred of evidence.

Of course, his only defence is mental illness so it must come up somewhere. I haven't heard a peep about it. As though someone in his right mind goes around shooting his comrades in arms.

Apparently, I have heard on the news, that he was attempting to communicate with Al-qaeda for the purposes of research - Plausible?

[Pliny]

Shady,

This is sanctimonious garbage. What past events would you expect to write apologies for ? I think know the answer: nothing.

Self-righteousness is a failing too.

That was rather tongue in cheek I think, Michael.

Cap and trade? Stolen land? All sanctimonious garbage government is providing compensation for due to the crimes of our ancestors. It is quite similar in my view.

Political correctness obfuscates our ability to observe and allows disadvantaged minorities immunity from criticism for behaviors that should not be tolerated. It has been interpreted by some of it's benefactors as a license to act disrespectfully without any repercussions.