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Gunman kills 12, wounds 30 at Fort Hood


jdobbin

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Apparently, I have heard on the news, that he was attempting to communicate with Al-qaeda for the purposes of research - Plausible?

Thats what the headlines implied. I read the story in detail, and it appears that he contacted the Imam of a certain mosque, and it as the same mosque that some of the 9/11 terrorists went to. But the authorities claimed that he appeared to be doing "research", presumably related to Islam.

The article states that "authorities were satisfied" that there was no terrorist related communications going on with the Imam at the time.

I think there should be a thorough investigation, and hopefully this won't become too politicized an event, so that they don't end up burying the truth whatever it is. If you want to respect the dead, tone down the rhetoric.

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Pliny

Political correctness obfuscates our ability to observe and allows disadvantaged minorities immunity from criticism for behaviors that should not be tolerated. It has been interpreted by some of it's benefactors as a license to act disrespectfully without any repercussions.

So we should never been polite or circumspect about matters of race, in case we may prevent some future disaster ? That's science fiction.

Good judgment is always required, and anybody who restrains themselves from reporting a minority who is behaving badly because PC exists is just stupid IMO. Maybe the heavy metal music they were listening to had subliminal messages telling them to not report it to.

Let's hold people responsible for their actions, at least to a certain degree - hmmm ?

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I NEVER BLAMED HIS RELIGION! What is wrong with you? How can you NOT understand what I am explaining so clearly? Islam did not cause him to kill people. I never said anything even *remotely* suggesting that Islam is responsible for this crime. Islam isn't some sort of monolithic concept, anyways. Islam is and means different things to millions of different Muslims. What's important is to analyze his particular perspectives of Islam and how they shaped his overall ideology. Read the article I linked from Newsweek, where the imam at the mosque he attended has disturbing exchanges with Major Hasan regarding his views on Islam and politics (let's not be naive and pretend that there isn't any overlap between religion and politics in the minds of many people). This man's extremist views and statements would still be extremely alarming if he wasn't a Muslim!

I cannot believe how many people, who are clearly able to turn on their computers and utilize the internet (illustrating minimal intelligence, at the very least), vigorously attempt to mischaracterize my statements. It is un-friggin'-believable. Clearly some people are just obsessed with seeing prejudice and racism wherever they look.

We'll have to wait and see if there is any evidence of mental illness in this case. I'm going to assume that he is of sound mind, and that mental illness will only be brought up by his supporters/lawyers, without a shred of evidence.

Okay, you didn't blame his religion, but as you admit you did factor it in, whether or not you did with him specifically.

As for the idiots who cheer on his actions, well, plenty of people cheer on torture, rape, soldiers losing their marbles and shooting into crowds, security companies killing innocent victims... all in the name of 'war'. IMO, they're secular idiots (or Christian or Jewish or whatever), but they're *not* committing a crime for their thoughts.

Look in the mirror, every society has its share of nutjobs, as well as those who cheer them on for whatever reason. Whether it's in the name of Holy War or War Inc.

Edited by BC_chick
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Okay, you didn't blame his religion, but as you admit you did factor it in, whether or not you did with him specifically.

It was factored in, because like it or not, it's a factor. That's the whole point, to accept it, and stop ignoring the giant gun-shooting, God-is-great shouting elephant in the room.

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But the authorities claimed that he appeared to be doing "research", presumably related to Islam.

Of course, it was for research. :rolleyes:

Sounds just like all the pedophiles who get caught with child pornography say. It was for research. How about instead, joining the rest of us in the real world.

If you want to respect the dead, tone down the rhetoric.

How about respecting the dead by telling the truth as to why they died? You're still confined and corrupted by political correctness, even with the memories of this attack still fresh in everyone's minds. Shame on you.

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Of course, it was for research. :rolleyes:

Sounds just like all the pedophiles who get caught with child pornography say. It was for research. How about instead, joining the rest of us in the real world.

How about respecting the dead by telling the truth as to why they died? You're still confined and corrupted by political correctness, even with the memories of this attack still fresh in everyone's minds. Shame on you.

the turth isn't the point here shady... can't you tell we're dealing with liberal egalitarians... what matters is political correctness.

so don't expect an honest debate.

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Okay, you didn't blame his religion, but as you admit you did factor it in, whether or not you did with him specifically.

As for the idiots who cheer on his actions, well, plenty of people cheer on torture, rape, soldiers losing their marbles and shooting into crowds, security companies killing innocent victims... all in the name of 'war'. IMO, they're secular idiots (or Christian or Jewish or whatever), but they're *not* committing a crime for their thoughts.

Look in the mirror, every society has its share of nutjobs, as well as those who cheer them on for whatever reason. Whether it's in the name of Holy War or War Inc.

Clearly you have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues if you cannot distinguish between Islam as a whole (not some sort of monolithic concept, anyways) and Islamic fundamentalism/extremism as was adhered to by Major Hasan. I have tried at length to make this distinction easily digestible for people such as yourself, but clearly you and other like you will continue on your mission of misrepresenting what's been said and lying about everything. When I make an obvious observation (hardly some sort of intellectual insight) that this man was obviously compelled to commit mass murder based on the his extremist perspectives of his religion/faith and his warped politics, people like you will reply that I am being prejudiced against Muslims or Arabs or whatever. In your malfunctioning mind (or perhaps you are simply a pathological liar), somehow you've conflated extremist/fundamentalist Muslims with all Muslims - even after exhaustive efforts on my behalf to separate these two CLEARLY different perspectives of Islam. Looks like you're the one with serious issues of prejudice to work out, here. Yes, there have been individuals acting out violently who've been motivated by their extreme religious/political views - i.e. abortion clinic bombers, the IRA, etc. But what do they have to do with this story? Absolutely NOTHING! So why in the world are you bringing it up? Why are you defending a society/culture (Muslims/Arabs) that haven't been disparaged? All rational people who support justice and freedom, of all religions and all political perspectives, CONDEMN this killer's actions and CONDEMN his motivations (extremist Islam/extremist politics). Yet you're in here telling us not to blame Islam.... WE NEVER BLAMED ISLAM!!!!

For the last time: I NEVER BLAMED ISLAM! NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT OTHER SOCIETIES OR CULTURES! NOBODY IS BLAMING ISLAMIC SOCIETY AND/OR CULTURE! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC FRINGE ELEMENT OF EXTREMISTS WITHIN THIS SOCIETY AND/OR CULTURE!

Just as an FYI, I will no longer reply to your posts in this thread. It is beyond frustrating how thoroughly I have to dumb everything down in the hope that you may just understand what's being said. The sad part - nothing I'm saying is complex or intellectual. It's all elementary.

Lastly - I've arrived at the conclusion that the type of EXTREME stupidity that we're seeing from people like BC_chick with respect to her perspective on this story is exactly why 13 people are dead with many more wounded. Apparently people will unflinchingly attempt to misrepresent reality and the create strawman arguments no matter what. I imagine the countless people who wanted to raise alarms about the obvious red flags from this Major Hasan were hesitant to do so because of people like BC_chick. If those with concerns were to make OBVIOUS and RATIONAL observations about Major Hasan's extremist religious and political perspectives, people like BC_chick would label them as prejudice/intolerant. This is simply astonishing. And now 13 people are dead, with many more wounded. This is extreme political correctness run amok.

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Lictor,

the turth isn't the point here shady... can't you tell we're dealing with liberal egalitarians... what matters is political correctness.

so don't expect an honest debate.

I think I have been pretty fair about giving you the benefit of the doubt, and pointing out where I found your argument has gaps. Political correctness is a non-issue for me. Rather, I like you to have actual examples when you infer, for example, that white people are not allowed to state that they're proud of their race.

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Lictor,

I think I have been pretty fair about giving you the benefit of the doubt, and pointing out where I found your argument has gaps. Political correctness is a non-issue for me. Rather, I like you to have actual examples when you infer, for example, that white people are not allowed to state that they're proud of their race.

well now you're just playing a silly discounting game...

there were many examples given of the double standards in racial advocacy... for one... there IS NO SUCH THING AS WHITE RACIAL ADVOCACY EITHER IN CANADA OR THE US... there is no white NAACP or BET, or Hispanic Trade Caucus, or Korean math club... THere is absolutely no such thing as white racial advocacy... everyone who tries it is dubbed as an "enemy of the people" and can face very harsh consequences (job loss, lawsuits, physical violence, imprisonment and death)

I listed example after example that whites are not permitted to celebrate their "diversity":

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/1999/09/29/white_nb2990929.html

remember? of course not you're being willfully obtuse.

I also provided many examples of double standards (for instance the black school board nonsense in Toronto that you insanely forgot to notice) as well as the incredible difference in treatment in interracial crimes by the mass media.. who blow up ad absurdum any minor bout between whites and blacks (when the victim is black)

and IGNORE as much as possible the black on white crimes... (point in case the Parc Carignan aggression in montreal, which saw a

14 year old little white girl stomped and brutally beaten by a barrel of hatecrazed blacks).

but of course its back to square one now isn't it? and you act as if no examples were provided...

ridiculous.

Edited by lictor616
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My impression of Gabriel:

You you you BC_chick, you have me so wrong. So wrong in fact, that instead of showing you in a civilized manner where you're misrepresenting my words, I'm going to do better than that - I'm not going talk to you anymore. See these fingers in my ear, I don't hear you. Nanananananana.

But! Before I go, I just want to say you're @#$# and @%#$#$ and people like you are all @%@#$@% and @^%#$%^#. But that's the last thing I say to you because I'm such the better person in all this. I throw out two posts and if my point is not heard I insult and stop responding.

Ya, cause I'm so mature like that. LOL

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[quote name='lictor616' date='10 November 2009 - 03:08 PM'

I listed example after example that whites are not permitted to celebrate their "diversity":

Oktoberfest

Robbie Burns

Corso Italia

etc etc etc...

But yes, no Skin head pride day,,,so sad...too bad....

I also provided many examples of double standards (for instance the black school board nonsense in Toronto that you insanely forgot to notice)

You mean the one I debunked you on....yeah keep bringing that up, maybe someone new won't know you are full of brown stuff....

and IGNORE as much as possible the black on white crimes... (point in case the Parc Carignan aggression in montreal, which saw a

14 year old little white girl stomped and brutally beaten by a barrel of hatecrazed blacks).

You mean the aggression you can't link? Of yes, I'm sure that happened just as much as I am sure the south shore police let a black drug dealer go in a stolen car cause they have arrests quotas...

Don't you get tired of being made to look fibberish?

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I just read a great point related to Obama and the Fort Hood shooting.

President Obama's response to abortionist George Tiller was “I am shocked and outraged by the murder of Dr. George Tiller.”

President Obama’s response to the slaughter of 13 Americans by a Muslim at a U.S. military installation was to instruct Americans not to “jump to any conclusions.”

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You mean the aggression you can't link?

can't link!?!?!?

can't get more linked in then an ACTUAL VIDEO OF THE EVENT no?%!?!?

here it is AGAIN! (7th time!):

and yeah "oktoberfest" is the equivalent of a white advocacy group... like the NAACP is to blacks... of course, of course... yes we all know its true!

lol...

you ask me for a link of a news story that hasn't been at all proselytized in the news... that was my central point... our media IGNORES BLACK ON WHITE CRIMES... and GIVE STAR BILLING TO WHITE ON BLACK ONES...

thank you once again for conceding my point...

what's next? back to square 1?

you're still going to dispute VIDEO evidence and tell me that the Parc Carignan agression never happened?

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I just read a great point related to Obama and the Fort Hood shooting.

President Obama's response to abortionist George Tiller was “I am shocked and outraged by the murder of Dr. George Tiller.”

President Obama’s response to the slaughter of 13 Americans by a Muslim at a U.S. military installation was to instruct Americans not to “jump to any conclusions.”

in essence Obama is telling his profane subjects and sires "keep quiet idiots, keep consuming and don't you dare think thoughts that are illegal, keep being the abject sheep that you are... bleat for me: DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH - DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH - DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH"

how munch longer until we hear, WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.?

Edited by lictor616
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Lictor,

well now you're just playing a silly discounting game...

there were many examples given of the double standards in racial advocacy... for one... there IS NO SUCH THING AS WHITE RACIAL ADVOCACY EITHER IN CANADA OR THE US... there is no white NAACP or BET, or Hispanic Trade Caucus, or Korean math club... THere is absolutely no such thing as white racial advocacy... everyone who tries it is dubbed as an "enemy of the people" and can face very harsh consequences (job loss, lawsuits, physical violence, imprisonment and death)

That's a different thing entirely. Korean Math Club ? Are you serious ?

I listed example after example that whites are not permitted to celebrate their "diversity":

http://www.cbc.ca/ca..._nb2990929.html

remember? of course not you're being willfully obtuse.

I don't think I saw that example, perhaps because it was buried among others that were mostly irrelevant.

And - if you read the article you'll see that they were ready to declare European heritage week, until it turned out that a white supremacist suggested it.

Did that teach you anything as to why people are reluctant to get behind ideas like 'German Heritage Day' ? Something about bad memories from the fairly recent past.

I also provided many examples of double standards (for instance the black school board nonsense in Toronto that you insanely forgot to notice) as well as the incredible difference in treatment in interracial crimes by the mass media.. who blow up ad absurdum any minor bout between whites and blacks (when the victim is black)

I didn't see that one either. There are many groups that are singled out for assistance, such as boys most recently. It's not racist, any more than affirmative action is racist. If you think it is, then start a new thread because that really warrants its own discussion.

and IGNORE as much as possible the black on white crimes... (point in case the Parc Carignan aggression in montreal, which saw a

14 year old little white girl stomped and brutally beaten by a barrel of hatecrazed blacks).

but of course its back to square one now isn't it? and you act as if no examples were provided...

ridiculous.

I, and others like me, continually swat down the flies that circle around your head but you return to the trough with new and incorrect examples nonetheless.

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Lictor,

That's a different thing entirely. Korean Math Club ? Are you serious ?

are YOU serious?

http://www.domainnotfound.ca/bellassist/dnsassist/main/?domain=www.kcutsa.ca

do you not know that almost every major university has nosnense like a "black law students association", or korean engineers?

are you this oblivious to reality? No wounder!

In case you didn't know, non-whites have literally THOUSANDS of race based association groups some of them even are broken down! (i.e.: north korean, south korean)

of course the profound double standard (that everyone ignores utterly, as you do)...

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And - if you read the article you'll see that they were ready to declare European heritage week, until it turned out that a white supremacist suggested it.

no such agenda was @found@

one person organizing a table at the banquet (who was investigated by the RCMP) was found with a copy of a book that was on Canada<s disgusting and orwellian "Index Librorum Prohibitorum"... that's right he had an "illegal book" (if there is such a thing) and because of that, the JDL, and CJA, and the ADL all wailed about the holocaust, and the legitimate people who really only wanted to eat a few knackerwursts, Paulaner beer, polish pierogies, Palačinky,Sacher Torte, Beef Goulash and shwarzbrot were all spat upon and called "racists"

before anyone could backlash the mayor, the weak willed mayor Brown, proclaimed a gay pride week, to cowtow to the media and subject himself to media harassment.

that's what happens when white canadians try to celebrate their diversity, they get tarred as "enemies of the people". we might as well be in soviet Ukraine.

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Lictor,

are YOU serious?

http://www.domainnot...n=www.kcutsa.ca

do you not know that almost every major university has nosnense like a "black law students association", or korean engineers?

So, there's no German students clubs ? No Scottish society ?

Hmmm... let's see - I have ten seconds to Google something... let's try German Students Association.

Bingo:

http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/departments/german_and_slavic/german/984.htm

The purpose of the German Club is to promote German culture at the University of Manitoba.

Now I can't guarantee that you would have been allowed to set this up, but I'm pretty sure Kimmy would be allowed to. Something about tact.

are you this oblivious to reality? No wounder!

In case you didn't know, non-whites have literally THOUSANDS of race based association groups some of them even are broken down! (i.e.: north korean, south korean)

of course the profound double standard (that everyone ignores utterly, as you do)...

Wrong again, Lictor... wrong wrong again. I would appreciate it if you acknowledged this one. What do you say ? I deserve something for engaging in debate with you over and over again, and maintaining to entertain your arguments in good faith.

How about it ?

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Lictor,

no such agenda was @found@

one person organizing a table at the banquet (who was investigated by the RCMP) was found with a copy of a book that was on Canada<s disgusting and orwellian "Index Librorum Prohibitorum"... that's right he had an "illegal book" (if there is such a thing) and because of that, the JDL, and CJA, and the ADL all wailed about the holocaust, and the legitimate people who really only wanted to eat a few knackerwursts, Paulaner beer, polish pierogies, Palačinky,Sacher Torte, Beef Goulash and shwarzbrot were all spat upon and called "racists"

before anyone could backlash the mayor, the weak willed mayor Brown, proclaimed a gay pride week, to cowtow to the media and subject himself to media harassment.

that's what happens when white canadians try to celebrate their diversity, they get tarred as "enemies of the people". we might as well be in soviet Ukraine.

I think the JDL actions are understandable and reasonable. Hate-mongering literature uses incorrect logic and facts to scapegoat groups in society. I'm not sad that our constitution doesn't allow it to be distributed. It saves us a lot of trouble.

Your views that people who bring hate literature to public events should be allowed to set up "White Heritage Day" or whatever it's called put you firmly and correctly on the fringe of society.

All you have to comfort yourself is your (correct) philosophical purity - that your freedom to lie and deceive has been compromised.

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Lictor,

I think the JDL actions are understandable and reasonable. Hate-mongering literature uses incorrect logic and facts to scapegoat groups in society. I'm not sad that our constitution doesn't allow it to be distributed. It saves us a lot of trouble.

Your views that people who bring hate literature to public events should be allowed to set up "White Heritage Day" or whatever it's called put you firmly and correctly on the fringe of society.

All you have to comfort yourself is your (correct) philosophical purity - that your freedom to lie and deceive has been compromised.

hate mongering? wait a minute..

the person in question didn't plan to set up a little propaganda table... he made pickles and beer!!!

AND ONLY ONE MEMBER OF THE ORGANIZING COMMITTEE was found with such literature... and taht you think is valid justification to suspend a complete APOLITICAL heritage week open to all?

it wasnt klan rallye you realize that right?

I mean the equivalent would be to cancel Carribean Hertigae week because one chair member had a copy of Mumia Abu-Jamal<s hate book...

you know nothing would happen...

in fact many people are big fans of Mumia (who wrote and incited people to rape white women to defile the white man<s possessions btw)

actually i<m quite sure you have no problem when people are reading hate literature (just so long as white people aren't the writers) lol!

the man in question had a copy of Which Way Western Man, by William G. Simpson, the book could scarcely be described as hate literature... it doesn't tell people to kill anyone...

SO by your logic (you agree with book censorship, which I have to tell you I find absolutely disgusting and shameful) its okay to institute group punishments when an individual dares to excercise his freedom of thought and read unapproved books?

"It saves us trouble"

you sound like a Brezhnev era marionette giving the party line... I feel soiled after reading your despicable comment...

and how dare you talk about "freedom and democracy" as values you uphold... you're an enemy to these sacred concepts. and to claim that by punishing people who read objectionable material you are "preserving freedom" is so perverse as to make one want to vomit.

I'll leave you in your hopelessness.

"The free man is he who does not fear to go to the end of his thought."

Blum, Leon on Freedom

"Liberty, according to my metaphysics is a self-determining power in an intellectual agent. It implies thought and choice and power."

Adams, John on Freedom

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "

Joseph Alexandrovitch BRODSKY

1991

"Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings."

Heinrich HEINE

Almansor: A Tragedy, 1823

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Lictor,

hate mongering? wait a minute..

the person in question didn't plan to set up a little propaganda table... he made pickles and beer!!!

AND ONLY ONE MEMBER OF THE ORGANIZING COMMITTEE was found with such literature... and taht you think is valid justification to suspend a complete APOLITICAL heritage week open to all?

it wasnt klan rallye you realize that right?

You should calm down as it affects your spelling when you get emotional.

Yes, I think it's valid justification to suspend "White Heritage Week" because White Supremacists were involved.

I mean the equivalent would be to cancel Carribean Hertigae week because one chair member had a copy of Mumia Abu-Jamal<s hate book...

you know nothing would happen...

This tit-for-tat logic works to a degree, but not at the point where you're saying "a Black racist could do this why not a White racist" ?

Once you show up in public wearing a hood, people aren't interested in rallying behind your cause, even if it's something like "help find lost kittens a home day". I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.

in fact many people are big fans of Mumia (who wrote and incited people to rape white women to defile the white man<s possessions btw)

actually i<m quite sure you have no problem when people are reading hate literature (just so long as white people aren't the writers) lol!

the man in question had a copy of Which Way Western Man, by William G. Simpson, the book could scarcely be described as hate literature... it doesn't tell people to kill anyone...

SO by your logic (you agree with book censorship, which I have to tell you I find absolutely disgusting and shameful) its okay to institute group punishments when an individual dares to excercise his freedom of thought and read unapproved books?

"It saves us trouble"

you sound like a Brezhnev era marionette giving the party line... I feel soiled after reading your despicable comment...

and how dare you talk about "freedom and democracy" as values you uphold... you're an enemy to these sacred concepts. and to claim that by punishing people who read objectionable material you are "preserving freedom" is so perverse as to make one want to vomit.

I'll leave you in your hopelessness.

"The free man is he who does not fear to go to the end of his thought."

Blum, Leon on Freedom

"Liberty, according to my metaphysics is a self-determining power in an intellectual agent. It implies thought and choice and power."

Adams, John on Freedom

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "

Joseph Alexandrovitch BRODSKY

1991

"Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings."

Heinrich HEINE

Almansor: A Tragedy, 1823

I have gone back and forth on whether I support anti-hate legislation but unfortunately those who defend it invariably end up being associated with the ugly element of society. Should any literature be banned ? In a perfect society, no it shouldn't. In our society, it absolutely should be IMO.

I'm sorry to shock you.

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Lictor,

You should calm down as it affects your spelling when you get emotional.

Yes, I think it's valid justification to suspend "White Heritage Week" because White Supremacists were involved.

This tit-for-tat logic works to a degree, but not at the point where you're saying "a Black racist could do this why not a White racist" ?

Once you show up in public wearing a hood, people aren't interested in rallying behind your cause, even if it's something like "help find lost kittens a home day". I'm sorry, but that's just how it is.

I have gone back and forth on whether I support anti-hate legislation but unfortunately those who defend it invariably end up being associated with the ugly element of society. Should any literature be banned ? In a perfect society, no it shouldn't. In our society, it absolutely should be IMO.

I'm sorry to shock you.

everything you<ve said can be summed up as, racism is okay if your black, bad if you<re white..

I don<t think I need to produce more arguments... you've just conceded what I've been saying...

Thank you and enjoy your government approved literature...

I'm off to reading Faust (hmmm I wonder if that's considered racist?)

hopefully the adl won't kick me out of my employment if they catch me reading this!!!

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I really think it's now time for those of you on the political left, to write the families of the dead and wounded. And apologize for contributing to the PC environment which directly led to tragic incident at Fort Hood. :angry:

Once again, I agree! But those on the political right are even more guility of "contributing to the PC environment" because they're the only ones talking about it anymore. The rest have just learned to be considerate of others and have moved on.

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It seems that political correctness in run amok in this tragedy, as PC definitely playing a part in playing down his motives for killing.

As Lorne Gunter says: Imagine if a fundamentalist Christian soldier had shot up a room full of unarmed Muslims while shouting "Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour." Imagine he had a fascination with Old Testament stories of how God smote his followers' enemies. His pastor had advocated a new crusade to rid the Holy Land of non-Christians. He had hung out at a survivalist camp for a cultish group of white supremacists who claim a Heaven-sent mission.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=f6084276-5650-4162-

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