bjre Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 The difference is simple. We are free If you often talk about something, that means the situation of that around you is not good . I did not often hear you talk about people need to eat, and food is important. Is that mean food is not important? No, actually there are many people in the world short of food. The reason you don't think about it frequently or notice it, is that you don't have that problem around you. All people around you have plenty to eat and many are consider how to eat less for health reason. Then why you want to emphasis freedom, human rights, democracy so much, and believe those are important? That is because you actually lack of those things around you. Let's take a look of the following incident: Students held picket signs saying their school is not a jail and not run by a police state. http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTV...=TorontoNewHomeAnd the cop wouldnt even say why he was arrestin my friend. Const. Wendy Drummond, a spokesperson for Toronto police, said Moosvi saw a teen loitering in the hallway during classes and asked him for identification."The student had an ID card, and flashed it at the officer, but not being able to read the name on it, the officer continued to speak with the student," says Drummond. http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article...thern-secondarySo, that is the reason, if a 16 year old kids unable to show an ID card, he would be arrested. That makes me remember a Hollywood movie (I can not remember the name) talk about Nazi arrest people in street who have no ID card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It would appear that you actually still believe that people on this board take you seriously. Not only do we arrest teenagers in hallways, we tend to ship them off to a secret detention center (that would make Gitmo look like Disneyland) where they are tortured, have a federal Conservative logo branded onto their buttocks, get their heads shaved with a sickle, are forced to watch "Canada is Free" indoctrination films (8mm of course), and then are brainwashed to believe that all of China is evil and that we must fight the Red Masses. We also have a "kick-a-kitten-for-distance" sporting league. It's only amateur right now, but we're hoping it will be an Olympic demonstration event by 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Then why you want to emphasis freedom, human rights, democracy so much, and believe those are important?That is because you actually lack of those things around you. Good grief. Are you serious? One story about one kid that lacks detail and context and you conclude that there's no democracy, human rights, or justice in Canada? Show us where people are being arrested on a mass scale without cause or due process and you'll have my attention. But, for now, you're just desperately trying to retroactively find some base for your anti-Canadian creed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 bjre's method of argument is to compare two things, and if one is not perfect then to declare them equal. He principally does this in comparing China with Canada. It's intellectually dishonest, but it appears he's as dishonest with himself about it as he is with us on MLW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 If only we could be more like China... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 bjre's method of argument is to compare two things, and if one is not perfect then to declare them equal. He principally does this in comparing China with Canada.It's intellectually dishonest, but it appears he's as dishonest with himself about it as he is with us on MLW. Why you repeated say I am dishonest without supported reason? Is it simply because I tell the truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 He has a point, though. There has been a whole bunch of small movements that undermine citizen/human rights lately and we have been shockingly complacent about it. The latest one to hit the plate is the suggestion that 'reasonable suspicion' should no longer be required in order to demand breathalyzer tests. It's just one in a long list that give authourities the freedom to punish and harrass without the reasonable and rightful check of due process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Why you repeated say I am dishonest without supported reason?Is it simply because I tell the truth? You don't tell the truth! You tell your opinion! There's a difference. If you want someone to believe you then you need to convince them with an argument that makes sense to them. Some folks here are saying that you are not honest in your arguments, that your comparisons are deliberately inaccurate. No one is saying that you personally are dishonest. They are saying that your ARGUMENTS are intellectually dishonest! You may believe them yourself but you are not convincing others in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Molly, Please. Comparing that to a country with real human rights issues - where you can be arrested and detained without charge is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 bjre, Why you repeated say I am dishonest without supported reason?Is it simply because I tell the truth? It's not about telling the truth, its about your basic logic which is dishonest and flawed. I gave you the reason above. Your lack of objectivity about China is puzzling, but I don't know you so there's no point in trying to argue with you about it. It appears other posters feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) bjre's method of argument is to compare two things, and if one is not perfect then to declare them equal. He principally does this in comparing China with Canada.It's intellectually dishonest, but it appears he's as dishonest with himself about it as he is with us on MLW. It is you keep mention China, Most topic I told in this board is about Canada. Most time I talk about China only when others talk about it first. Are you honest when you said "He principally does this in comparing China with Canada."? bjre,It's not about telling the truth, its about your basic logic which is dishonest and flawed. I gave you the reason above. Your lack of objectivity about China is puzzling, but I don't know you so there's no point in trying to argue with you about it. It appears other posters feel the same way. What is your basic logic? Is that when you can not find the support reason to support your argument, you turn to use dishonest to find excuse? Edited October 23, 2009 by bjre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Molly,Please. Comparing that to a country with real human rights issues - where you can be arrested and detained without charge is ridiculous. Excuse me, Michael, but isn't that exactly what happenned to Adil Charqouwi (however the heck you spell his name)? Yes, Bire is guilty of hyperbole, but he's not entirely wrong. Not by a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Welcome to our wonderful forum. They don't like you because you speak broken english, and are probably chinese and you put down our fine democracy. Thats why they like to throw china in your face. But to the point, these problems you highlight are real, but they are not systemic. When people are given power over others (like, a police officer) some of them will abuse their power, use it in aways that it was not intended. Those things happen sometimes, because of individual peoples actions. If we believe it is not systemic, the next question has to be, how does the system respond when these things happen? Does the system try to cover up the mistakes or does it do something to fix the problem. So to that I must say, Robert Dziekanski. Edited October 23, 2009 by Sir Bandelot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Excuse me, Michael, but isn't that exactly what happenned to Adil Charqouwi (however the heck you spell his name)? Yes, Bire is guilty of hyperbole, but he's not entirely wrong. Not by a long shot. The problem with bjre is the message is lost because of his anti-occidental tendencies. China is beyond repute and criticism but Canada is corrupt and evil. That is the view that he projects here. His message is often obfuscated by anti-democratic propaganda. Some of his criticisms have merit but they are largely ignored because of the way he chooses to present them. You are correct though; there have been many subtle movements away from the freedoms we enjoy. The temptation to give up a little liberty for a little security is strong and easy to give into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Does the system try to cover up the mistakes or does it do something to fix the problem. So to that I must say, Robert Dziekanski. If that were true there would be none of this. http://www.braidwoodinquiry.ca/ Our system does try to cover up things, people try to cover up things, our system, with oversight and accountability corrects that. Does our system uncover cover ups and hold those responsible or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketRocket Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Since this is my first encounter with the OP, I'm not yet jaded in my views regarding his habits here, so I'll take a whack at addressing the issue to him..... bjre: The story you present seems to be accurately reported, but it seems like not all the pertinent information is included. However, consider this fact; if we were NOT free, then the event would never have been reported in the news. This is one isolated event in one school. The student was not taken away to jail, but was simply questioned, then released. As to why the police were in the school, I'm not sure, but I suspect it was in response to some student violence in that same school and so the officer was simply making sure that this was a student, and not possibly some thug who was in the school to cause trouble. Do not quote me on that as I am not absolutely sure in this case. But again, in most nations that do NOT have the kind of freedom you speak of, the press would not have been allowed to report on the incident and you would not have ever read about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Molly, Excuse me, Michael, but isn't that exactly what happenned to Adil Charqouwi (however the heck you spell his name)? Yes, Bire is guilty of hyperbole, but he's not entirely wrong. Not by a long shot. He's not entirely wrong if he says Canada has real problems. Nobody has argued that. He's not even wrong when he says that - to him - freedom of expression is secondary to being secure and having enough food. But he's wrong because he tries to say that the countries are "the same" because they both have problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Welcome to our wonderful forum. They don't like you because you speak broken english, and are probably chinese and you put down our fine democracy. Thats why they like to throw china in your face.But to the point, these problems you highlight are real, but they are not systemic. When people are given power over others (like, a police officer) some of them will abuse their power, use it in aways that it was not intended. Those things happen sometimes, because of individual peoples actions. If we believe it is not systemic, the next question has to be, how does the system respond when these things happen? Does the system try to cover up the mistakes or does it do something to fix the problem. So to that I must say, Robert Dziekanski. As you say, there will always be abuses. In China, for decades, those abuses were overlooked, or if they were dealt with, it was in a ludicrously over-the-top fashion (ie. the Cultural Revolution). No system is perfect, and that is perhaps where bjre is trying to justify his views. He seems to equate the odd miscreant in our system with the systemic violation of basic liberties in China. He's kind of a Nicolas Chauvin figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 ....or the boy with his finger in the dike, calling for help. He's pointing at stuff that we need to pay a lot more attention to, and in saying 'it's the same as China', showing us the nature of the path we are on. (I'll shut up now.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 The following is what I hear on the radio this AM and you tell me if we all have freedoms in this country. A woman and her 7 year old son were out walking at 5:30 am one day. She had cut through this property and saw a man nude in the kitchen and after she got home called police and the man, a 29 years old, was arrested for exposing himself! Where is the freedom for anyone be nude or other wise in their own home. The callers of the radio station were completely on the side of the man and I wonder if the woman has saw another woman would she have called the police? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I will say we are free slaves. We can freely chose how we are used and abused in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 A woman and her 7 year old son were out walking at 5:30 am one day. She had cut through this property and saw a man nude in the kitchen and after she got home called police and the man, a 29 years old, was arrested for exposing himself! Get back to us when he is convicted. He won't be, there is precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 What is your basic logic? Is that when you can not find the support reason to support your argument, you turn to use dishonest to find excuse? I believe what he's saying - though he can correct me if I'm wrong - is that it is you who never has reasonable support for your arguments, which makes any discussion you initiate pointless from the outset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 He won't be, there is precedent. Morris, I'm backing off from my usual jibes as per your request but honestly are you baiting me with this post ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I believe what he's saying - though he can correct me if I'm wrong - is that it is you who never has reasonable support for your arguments, which makes any discussion you initiate pointless from the outset. which point you are not clear about that I have said? I am not intend to talk anything about China. But it is still ok to answer if you show great interest in caring about the people half sphere away several decade ago than those who near you nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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