Roman Polanski

[August1991]

I was thinking about Polanski, when I saw this LA Times article:

From Michael Moore's politics to on-screen sex and violence, the movie business is constantly being assailed for not sharing the country's values. Rarely has the morality argument been as rancorous as with the Roman Polanski case.

Hollywood is rallying behind the fugitive filmmaker. Top filmmakers are signing a pro-Polanski petition, Whoopi Goldberg says the director didn't really commit rape, and Debra Winger complains "the whole art world suffers" in such arrests.

The rest of the nation seems to hold a dramatically different perspective on Polanski's weekend capture. Even if decades have passed since he fled Los Angeles before his 1978 sentencing, Polanski must be extradited and serve his time, the thinking goes. There's no excuse for forcing sex on a 13-year-old girl. People who defend him have no principles.

LA Times

There are several issues here.

Does artistic talent, like being rich or powerful, give one a special pass? IOW, are people who succeed in places like Hollywood, Washington, the NHL, Wall Street, Ottawa - are they different and above the law? Are such people self-selected?

Second question. If people in Hollywood depend on ticket sales to Middle America for their livelihood, how can they be out of touch with their clientele?

Lastly, if the victim of a crime is willing to accept private payment and forgive and forget, should the State ignore the charges?

----

BTW, I happen to think that Chinatown is one of the best movies ever made. (Polanski turned Towne's script into a movie.)

Edited October 2, 2009 by August1991

[jdobbin]

Lastly, if the victim of a crime is willing to accept private payment and forgive and forget, should the State ignore the charges?

Don't think that is acceptable, do you?

Polanski has been sheltered from the law for some time. I do wonder though if a lesser famed person left the country if the district attorney would have been so vigilant in pursuit.

[kimmy]

Does artistic talent, like being rich or powerful, give one a special pass? IOW, are people who succeed in places like Hollywood, Washington, the NHL, Wall Street, Ottawa - are they different and above the law? Are such people self-selected?

Some people certainly seem to act as if they're above the law. (the conduct of some professional athletes being particularly astounding.)

In practice, if you've got enough money, you're apparently pretty hard to prosecute successfully.

Second question. If people in Hollywood depend on ticket sales to Middle America for their livelihood, how can they be out of touch with their clientele?

They're out of touch. The question is, are they out of touch in ways that will make people stop buying their product?

Nobody knows exactly what makes the paying public love some actress while being completely indifferent to another who seems, at first glance, to have all the qualities that make the other one popular. If anybody understood exactly what it is, they could make a fortune.

I don't know if people will be thinking of these comments from Whoopi Goldberg or Debra Winger when they are in the lineup at the box-office. (when was the last time anybody paid money to see Whoopi Goldberg or Debra Winger anyway?)

Tom Cruise's popularity dipped after he went on Oprah and jumped on her couch and acted as a pitch-man for his weird cult. I think that the audience for his movies were reduced at least for a while.

He jumped on a couch on TV. That's a lot less serious than what Goldberg and Winger are doing... yet it's also a lot more high profile. Everybody saw the clip and remembered it. Nobody is going to remember actors signing a petition in support of Polanski... because it just doesn't make for as entertaining a clip. You can't sound-bite it or you-tube it.

Lastly, if the victim of a crime is willing to accept private payment and forgive and forget, should the State ignore the charges?

If restitution/compensation was the only goal of our justice system, then that would be a reasonable proposal, but restitution/compensation is not the only goal of our justice system, or even the most significant one. So no, absolutely not.

-k

[M.Dancer]

I have nothing but scorn for him. He's not too old to stand for his crimes and his crimes are serious. It was rape, it was the rape of a young child. The smoking gun has his sheet. If I was here father I'm pretty sure I would be in jail now.

[Wilber]

Hands up. Who thinks there should be a statute of limitations on raping a child?

[kimmy]

Whoopi Goldberg has clarified her comment "that it wasn't rape-rape".

She says she was only referring to the legal charge Polanski was convicted of, which was not "rape", but "unlawful sex with a minor".

http://allday.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/10/01/2084644.aspx

I did not see the original context of her remarks and am not sure if this flies. If she was providing a factual correction, then ok. If she was trying to minimize the crimes with which Polanski was convicted, then no, dickering over the specifics of what he was charged with is not going to buy him any sympathy and her comments are not excused.

In 1977, Polanski was charged with rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14 and furnishing a controlled substance to a minor.

These charges were dropped as part of a plea bargain that saw the director admit to the lesser charge of unlawful sex with a minor, while he later fled the US on the eve of sentencing.

http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/a179696/...-rape-rape.html

-k

[M.Dancer]

In 1977, Polanski was charged with rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14 and furnishing a controlled substance to a minor.

-k

And by sodomy they mean he also anally raped a 13 year old.

I have nothing but contempt for him. I always have.

[jdobbin]

Who thinks there should be a statute of limitations on raping a child?

I think the district attorney bungled the case back then and that office has been shamed ever since.

I am curious if all the original charges will be re-filed and if the victim would agree to testify if that is the case.

Or does flight from sentencing carry its own set of tough charges?

Given that justice bungled things the first time, it is hard not to think they won't get it right this time.

As far as the Polanski goes, his friends who are speaking on his behalf now should have spared a moment to think about the victim. Perhaps then they would have urged him to face the charges long ago.

It is odd at times that certain people charged and/or convicted of crime will gain support from elements of the public. The Birdman of Alcatraz comes to mind even though he killed a few people and was by some accounts, a psychopath. And yet he made incredible contributions to understanding prisons and avian pathology.

[DogOnPorch]

Roman's brain was hardboiled back in August 1969.

[Michael Hardner]

I don't feel sorry for Mr. Polanski given the crime he committed, and his flight from justice, however I concur with jdobbin that his fame - far from helping him in this case - has likely resulted in him being pursued more vigorously than an average defendant.

As for the question of Hollywood people not paying attention to what their fans values are - why should they have to ? Are we saying that they should compromise their values in order to make sure that they will continue to be popular with their fans ? What kind of message is that ?

I heard the same thing about the Dixie Chicks back during their own controversy.

Do conservatives on this board pretend to like Obama if they're talking to customers who do ? Do liberals talk up their hunting experience when speaking to clients who voted for Pat Buchanan ?

[M.Dancer]

....his fame - far from helping him in this case - has likely resulted in him being pursued more vigorously than an average defendant.

.

1) he isn't a defendant, he is a convicted felon.

2) Are average felons able to be on the lamb for decades walking freely in the public eye and gainfully employed making money hand over fist?

[Riverwind]

Some people certainly seem to act as if they're above the law. (the conduct of some professional athletes being particularly astounding.)

The Godfather had a scene where a young girl was taken by her mother to be raped by a director. The Polanski case is eerily similar and makes me wonder if such events are more common than many in Hollywood would like to admit. For that reason alone Polanski should be prosecuted to full extent of the law even if his victim was bought off/forgiven him.

[blueblood]

Apparently polanski is getting raked over the coals in the US big time. Here is what a very left leaning CNN columnist thinks of him

CNN

Cripes Polanski is a bigger unifying force than Obama, looks like Americans of all stripes are calling for his head. If Roland Martin has so many people agreeing with him, Polanski definetally f***ed up.

[DogOnPorch]

Apparently polanski is getting raked over the coals in the US big time. Here is what a very left leaning CNN columnist thinks of him

CNN

Cripes Polanski is a bigger unifying force than Obama, looks like Americans of all stripes are calling for his head. If Roland Martin has so many people agreeing with him, Polanski definetally f***ed up.

You gotta think the whole Manson Family thing made him go over the edge. He was never the same after that event. F**ked right up...

[blueblood]

You gotta think the whole Manson Family thing made him go over the edge. He was never the same after that event. F**ked right up...

So that's a get out of jail free card? "the manson family thing made me do it?" Have other victims of the manson family resorted to what polanski did?

[DogOnPorch]

So that's a get out of jail free card? "the manson family thing made me do it?" Have other victims of the manson family resorted to what polanski did?

Did I say 'get out of jail free'? But, some consideration should be at hand re: sentencing.

Other people who were living victims of Manson's crimes were indeed affected in various ways. The LaBianca daughter in particular. Total Stockholm Syndrome re: Charles 'Tex' Watson.

But the fact remains the Polanski was taken to the murder scene and the morgue upon arriving in Los Angeles from overseas. He even got to see the word 'Pig' written in his wife's and unborn child's blood plus the blood soaked murder scene. Plus the photos that the police took. Then the media made it look like somehow Polanski DID these crimes or was somehow responsible for these crimes...claiming things like witchcraft and such. He really got dragged through the muck...as did Sharon Tate's good name. It affected him as it probably would affect you or I...mental collapse.

Edited October 2, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[blueblood]

Did I say 'get out of jail free'? But, some consideration should be at hand re: sentencing.

Other people who were living victims of Manson's crimes were indeed affected in various ways. The LaBianca daughter in particular. Total Stockholm Syndrome re: Charles 'Tex' Watson.

But the fact remains the Polanski was taken to the murder scene and the morgue upon arriving in Los Angeles from overseas. He even got to see the word 'Pig' written in his wife's and unborn child's blood plus the blood soaked murder scene. Plus the photos that the police took. Then the media made it look like somehow Polanski DID these crimes or was somehow responsible for these crimes...claiming things like witchcraft and such. He really got dragged through the muck...as did Sharon Tate's good name. It affected him as it probably would affect you or I...mental collapse.

That's a cop out. Polanski might have been either been rattled, or he might be an artistic flake. Point is something is wrong with his wiring and he didn't get it fixed. He underwent psych testing while he was in jail, apparently he was sane enough not to be sent to the nuthouse.

He didn't realize he had a problem, which resulted in him not getting help. He was sane enough to know what he was doing, which was sickening btw. He had a choice what to do with that girl, he made the wrong one. Then he fled the country after a short time in jail to avoid another short time in jail. Drunk people are not of sound mind when they drive and potentially hurt/kill someone, should sentancing be reduced because their mental capacity is reduced? How about the nutbar who runs Iran, should the free world take pity on him because he's a few lights shy of a Chrismas Tree? It shouldn't be societies problem if somebody has a few screws loose.

Polanski's sex crime came after 8 years of the Manson thing, if he was crazy why didn't it show up before? No, Polanski is as sick as a bastard as Woody Allen, only this time Polanski's shenanigans caught up with him. Just because somebody is famous and has a few screws loose doesn't give them the right to go out and rape kids.

[DogOnPorch]

Were you alive in those days?

[blueblood]

Were you alive in those days?

What does that have to do with anything? A sick bastard who rapes kids is a sick bastard who rapes kids regardless of era.

[DogOnPorch]

What does that have to do with anything? A sick bastard who rapes kids is a sick bastard who rapes kids regardless of era.

I gather that's a 'no'. Inbetween sharpening your pitchfork, you might want to imagine what it would be like to come home to find your wife, unborn child, your best friend, your wife's best friend plus your wife's former boyfriend and a random teenager, dead in messy pools of blood...then be accused by the media of being involved somehow and how your wife was actually a whore. It was the most heinous crime ever commited in America up until that time. If you weren't alive, you don't understand the effect these murders and the following trials had on the human psyche. That's what it has to do 'with anything'.

After you've thought about that a bit...you and your chums can go grab a rope n' lynch that sick bastard from a tree if it'll make you feel better. Keep in mind the woman has since forgiven him...I don't think she'll be attending the event..so, you'll be on your own.

[blueblood]

I gather that's a 'no'. Inbetween sharpening your pitchfork, you might want to imagine what it would be like to come home to find your wife, unborn child, your best friend, your wife's best friend plus your wife's former boyfriend and a random teenager, dead in messy pools of blood...then be accused by the media of being involved somehow and how your wife was actually a whore. It was the most heinous crime ever commited in America up until that time. If you weren't alive, you don't understand the effect these murders and the following trials had on the human psyche. That's what it has to do 'with anything'.

After you've thought about that a bit...you and your chums can go grab a rope n' lynch that sick bastard from a tree if it'll make you feel better. Keep in mind the woman has since forgiven him...I don't think she'll be attending the event..so, you'll be on your own.

Me and mainstream America will be attending.

I imagine I would be in the shrinks office pretty damn quick, like most sane rational people, instead of venting my frustrations on a 13 year old girl. Soldiers in war probably have endured sick events of their own, yet I don't see soldiers going around and raping kids blaming it on PTSD.

No one cares about Polanski's trauma, what did happen was that he raped a kid, but at the same time he was some sort of artistic genius creating "masterpiece" movies. So I'm not buying his psyche took that big of a bruising if he was still able to perform his career well. If the manson event took that big of a toll on his psyche, why wasn't he institutionalized immediately after his incarceration. So I'm thinking he was distraught about the manson family just doesn't fly and he was your run of the mill wierdo.

Mao's wife was kidnapped and killed, does that not excuse him from being responsible for the death's of millions of people?

[DogOnPorch]

Meh...I know a witch-hunt when I see one. Nobody gave a rat's ass until now. Can I expect you to begin crusading against actual child rape going on today? I doubt it. But, I can recommend some good pitchfork sharpening kits if you're having troubles in that area.

[blueblood]

Meh...I know a witch-hunt when I see one. Nobody gave a rat's ass until now. Can I expect you to begin crusading against actual child rape going on today? I doubt it. But, I can recommend some good pitchfork sharpening kits if you're having troubles in that area.

A witch-hunt? I disagree with pretty much everything Roland Martin says, but he is spot on on this one. If you call commenting on a story a witch hunt, I'd shudder to think what you would call a protest march. I can go to sleep with good conscience that I do not support child rapists no matter what their sob story is. Same goes with despots, and all the other evil doers in this world. Polanski pled out, ran away, and tried to hide under his fame and his sob story; that is a coward and gutter slime of the first order.

[DogOnPorch]

A witch-hunt? I disagree with pretty much everything Roland Martin says, but he is spot on on this one. If you call commenting on a story a witch hunt, I'd shudder to think what you would call a protest march. I can go to sleep with good conscience that I do not support child rapists no matter what their sob story is. Same goes with despots, and all the other evil doers in this world. Polanski pled out, ran away, and tried to hide under his fame and his sob story; that is a coward and gutter slime of the first order.

My point: Last week...did you actually give a flying f**k about Roman Polanski? I know I didn't.

[blueblood]

My point: Last week...did you actually give a flying f**k about Roman Polanski? I know I didn't.

Nope, but I am happy however that he is being flambeed on TV and is coming back to the US. Nobody would have spoken up about this case had those interesting characters from Hollywood intervened. So we can say that Roland Martin killed two birds with one stone, he flambeed Polanski and he flambeed the ivory towers from Hollywood. The big problem most people and myself have is that a convicted child rapist is not only being a free pass by the hollywood elite, but being glorified.

Here we have a bishop in NB who was caught with child porn on his computer, is Donald Sutherland going to come and defend him in the media, not bloody likely.