Iran YET again in Violation of the Nuclear Treaty

[naomiglover]

The non proliferation treaty and membership to the IAEA has a carrot and stick function. Nations that are in good standing receive technological benefits.

Israel has never asked for those benefits.

Israel has received plenty of benefits from the UK and the US. More than any other country.

By the way, I enjoyed the "Israel is not the topic" comment.

[naomiglover]

If Iran pulls out of the NNP, then I suppose M.Dancer would consider the nuclear program to be okay, just like Israel.

[M.Dancer]

If Iran pulls out of the NNP, then I suppose M.Dancer would consider the nuclear program to be okay, just like Israel.

Israel was never a member of the NPT and didn't benefit from any technology transfers, Iran did. Iran would be years if not decades behind without the NPT.

As well, Israel doen't have a vast network of nuclear research and enrichment sites, Iran does. It has 16.

[M.Dancer]

Israel has received plenty of benefits from the UK and the US. More than any other country.

By the way, I enjoyed the "Israel is not the topic" comment.

I'm sure you did.

Please list the nuclear benefits from the US and the UK....

...

[Moonlight Graham]

Isreal may have the cheapest and most effective nuclear weapon of all. The one that their enemies imagines they have.

Now true, they may have a weapon. Or they may have a blueprint...or that may have a weapon that they can't be sure of would work....they have never conducted a weaposn test.

C'mon. It's widely believed internationally that Israel has a capable nuclear weapons arsenal. And with them having the support of the US, it would be quite easy for them to obtain some. They own nukes, they just deny it.

If Israel won't allow the IAEA to inspect anything, what grounds do they have to call for Iran or any other country to be inspected?

The US and other western countries are also massive hypocrites on this issue. They condemn Iran and call for inspections, yet they allow Israel to avoid inspections and keep a secret arsenal of nukes without questioning or condemning it.

Obama's response to Tehran’s disclosure of the second secret nuke facility was this:

“Iran’s decision to build a secret facility represented a “direct challenge to the basic compact” of the global non-proliferation regime, US President Barack Obama said, making a statement in Pittsburgh, where he is hosting a G20 summit.”

As Matthew Good aptly points out about Obama's above response:

Of course, not a word was uttered [by Obama] about the fact that Israel possesses the ability to wipe Iran off the face of the earth with an arsenal of nuclear weapons that the UN has never been allowed to inspect, nor that Israel recently literally leapt out of its proverbial skin when a recent resolution was passed calling for it to become a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

There is an obvious double-standard in the treatment of Iran and Israel. It seems clear that the U.S., the West, and many in the U.N. are against secret acquisition of nukes...unless it somehow serves their own best interests. Total hypocrisy.

(and btw, i'm not Jewish or Iranian or Muslim or Arab or Palestinian etc. so i come with no regional, racial, nationalist, or religious bias on this subject unlike many on these forums.)

Edited September 30, 2009 by Moonlight Graham

[M.Dancer]

C'mon. It's widely believed internationally that Israel has a capable nuclear weapons arsenal. And with them having the support of the US, it would be quite easy for them to obtain some. They own nukes, they just deny it..)

And with that you delve into the vast but often plied sea of speculation.

When did the USA ever give someone a nuke?

[naomiglover]

Israel was never a member of the NPT and didn't benefit from any technology transfers, Iran did. Iran would be years if not decades behind without the NPT.

As well, Israel doen't have a vast network of nuclear research and enrichment sites, Iran does. It has 16.

We did not need the NPT. We received more than any country under the NPT, from the UK.

" Hundreds of shipments

Using Freedom of Information, Newsnight has obtained top secret papers. They show Foreign Minister Kim Howells misled the IAEA and that Britain made not one, but hundreds of secret shipments of nuclear materials to Israel. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832.stm

[DogOnPorch]

And with that you delve into the vast but often plied sea of speculation.

When did the USA ever give someone a nuke?

That's the second 'sombody gave 'em The Bomb' I've seen today.

C'mon. It's widely believed internationally that Israel has a capable nuclear weapons arsenal. And with them having the support of the US, it would be quite easy for them to obtain some. They own nukes, they just deny it.

[M.Dancer]

We did not need the NPT. We received more than any country under the NPT, from the UK.

" Hundreds of shipments

Using Freedom of Information, Newsnight has obtained top secret papers. They show Foreign Minister Kim Howells misled the IAEA and that Britain made not one, but hundreds of secret shipments of nuclear materials to Israel. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832.stm

Well you get a point. That's one. From the 60s, which Israel paid top dollar for. And for which Britain, if it's true, should be chastized.

Now contrast that against Iran. Iran firststarted getting peaceful aid (as opposed to paying top dollar) from the US in the 1960s. They would get US aid for atomic energy till the islamic revolution.

They as well received help from France, spain, belgium and sweden.

After the revolution, in full compliance with being an NPT member, they acquired technology Argentine, Russia and China.

Your assertion that Israel has received more that any other is without factual basis.

[GostHacked]

And with that you delve into the vast but often plied sea of speculation.

When did the USA ever give someone a nuke?

They 'gave' two to Japan !!

[DogOnPorch]

They 'gave' two to Japan !!

Japan and the US were in a toe to toe war which the Japanese started.

Japanese Sub I-8

On the 26 March 1944, during a cruise into the Indian Ocean, I-8 torpedoed the 5,787-ton Dutch freighter SS Tjisalak. The submarine surfaced amid the debris field and after a brief exchange of gunfire with the ship's defensive armament, collected the survivors on the submarine's deck. Shortly after the freighter had sunk, the merchantman's crew and passengers, totalling 97, were tied together and forced to run a gauntlet of Japanese sailors, during which they were slashed with samurai swords and beaten with monkey wrenches and sledgehammers before being shot, then kicked into the water. Six men managed to survive and found a life raft. They were later rescued by the Liberty ship SS James O. Wilder.

Two months after the massacre of the crew of the Tjisalak, I-8 was involved in another atrocity. They struck the 7,176-ton American liberty ship SS Jean Nicolet with two torpedoes. The 100 crewmen abandoned their burning ship and took to life rafts. Again, the survivors were gathered on the submarine's deck. The massacre took several hours, as they were made to walk one at a time past the conning tower, where they were murdered. When an aircraft approached, the submarine dived, plunging the remaining bound prisoners into the ocean, where most drowned. Sources differ, but it is believed 23 men made it to a life raft, from which they were picked up by the HMS Hoxa 30 hours later. Five prisoners were taken to Japan by the submarine; one of them, Francis J. O'Gara, was found alive in a prison camp after the war. A new Liberty ship had been named after him, making O'Gara the only living person to have a Liberty ship named for him.

I-8 also sank many other merchant ships, often with a high or even total loss of life, suggesting that additional war crimes were committed. Commander Ariizumi, who had encouraged and participated in the murders, committed suicide after the Japanese surrender. Few of the crew had survived the war, but three were located and prosecuted. One was granted immunity in return for testifying against his former comrades. The others were convicted and served prison terms, which were commuted by the Japanese government in 1955.

Events like the two above were all too common. Canadian POWs along with prisoners all over the Pacific/CBI theaters were forced on Death Marches and such...see photo from 1942.

And 1944...

But, I suppose it's hard for you to relate to those times in their proper context if you are against the US's use of atomic weapons to end WW2. How would you have ended the War?

[myata]

There is an obvious double-standard in the treatment of Iran and Israel. It seems clear that the U.S., the West, and many in the U.N. are against secret acquisition of nukes...unless it somehow serves their own best interests. Total hypocrisy.

Of course it's one big, fat double standard, what else? You can't be allowed to have what we have already, unless you submit to us, suck up and so on. There. Still the best international strategy we could come up with in the third millenium.

[naomiglover]

Well you get a point. That's one. From the 60s, which Israel paid top dollar for. And for which Britain, if it's true, should be chastized.

Now contrast that against Iran. Iran firststarted getting peaceful aid (as opposed to paying top dollar) from the US in the 1960s. They would get US aid for atomic energy till the islamic revolution.

They as well received help from France, spain, belgium and sweden.

After the revolution, in full compliance with being an NPT member, they acquired technology Argentine, Russia and China.

Your assertion that Israel has received more that any other is without factual basis.

Israel has been receiving economic and military aid from the US for a very long time. A lot more than Iran or any other country has received from other countries.

[M.Dancer]

Israel has been receiving economic and military aid from the US for a very long time. A lot more than Iran or any other country has received from other countries.

We are talking about nuclear aid. Not Military, not cultural. Not social...nuclear.

[naomiglover]

We are talking about nuclear aid. Not Military, not cultural. Not social...nuclear.

Okay. We can turn a blind eye to the aid Israel receives from the US. How much has Iran received as far as nuclear aid?

[M.Dancer]

Okay. We can turn a blind eye to the aid Israel receives from the US. How much has Iran received as far as nuclear aid?

100% more than Israel. I already outlined some of the helo they have received.

Why should we turn a blind eye to an ally of the west geting aid? It's just not germaine to the subject.

[GostHacked]

100% more than Israel. I already outlined some of the helo they have received.

Why should we turn a blind eye to an ally of the west geting aid? It's just not germaine to the subject.

To me it is about integrity and actually walking the walk while talking the talk. The talk and the walk seem to be quite different. Everyone likes to point the figers at everyone else without taking the time or the balls to show your own mistakes. (This is why BC is on my ass most of the time!!) ... and in the end I agree with him.

However if we all part of the west want to make things better, we must set a standard and hold to that standard even when facing opposition that does not play by the so called 'rules of war'.

Don't do as I do ... do as I say. <--- My dad used this on me a lot. I had always challenged it.

[myata]

There can be two fair and sustainable in the long run solutions in this situations:

1) Israel and Iran both denounce nuke weapons and enter NPT.

2) Israel and Iran both develop nuke weapons and enter NPT as nuclear powers.

The sketchy and hand twisty selective application of "rules" is a travesty that cannot be sustained, neither from moral or logical, nor from practical perspective.

[DogOnPorch]

There can be two fair and sustainable in the long run solutions in this situations:

1) Israel and Iran both denounce nuke weapons and enter NPT.

2) Israel and Iran both develop nuke weapons and enter NPT as nuclear powers.

The sketchy and hand twisty selective application of "rules" is a travesty that cannot be sustained, neither from moral or logical, nor from practical perspective.

Here we go again with the "fairness" re: owning nuclear weapons. Let's let every country have them...Doomsday will arrive quicker.

[wulf42]

There can be two fair and sustainable in the long run solutions in this situations:

1) Israel and Iran both denounce nuke weapons and enter NPT.

2) Israel and Iran both develop nuke weapons and enter NPT as nuclear powers.

The sketchy and hand twisty selective application of "rules" is a travesty that cannot be sustained, neither from moral or logical, nor from practical perspective.

You have great idea's and i am being serious, the problem is Islamic Nutters don t play fair!

their doctrine is follow Islam or else!! Iran's leader is going to get his country into a Nuclear

War with Israel that is what is going to happen and the sad thing is many Iranians don t want

this regime either...the only hope for Iran is that Iranian youth take care of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Before Israel does with an all out Attack!

[myata]

And where do you get a notion the democratic (whatever you want to call them - lovely freedomlovers?) do?

In a twisted game, only the best liar wins. That's a no win game as far as I'm concerned.