glenn beck

[Michael Hardner]

You can make fun of Beck all you want. It doesn't change the fact that he's right.

He does say the odd thing that is correct. But even as a journalist/entertainer/court jester he's embarrassing.

[bush_cheney2004]

He does say the odd thing that is correct. But even as a journalist/entertainer/court jester he's embarrassing.

Then why does this previously obscure radio talent attract so much attention these days? What are they afraid of from this "embarrassing court jester"?

[Michael Hardner]

Then why does this previously obscure radio talent attract so much attention these days? What are they afraid of from this "embarrassing court jester"?

People don't watch him because they're afraid ! They watch him because he's good TV.

[bush_cheney2004]

People don't watch him because they're afraid ! They watch him because he's good TV.

Then he is doing his job....what else would you expect?

[Michael Hardner]

Then he is doing his job....what else would you expect?

I don't expect anything else. But we have to warn people that too much fake news is a bad thing. Information is oxygen to the brain, and watching Beck is like smoking 10 packs a day.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't expect anything else. But we have to warn people that too much fake news is a bad thing. Information is oxygen to the brain, and watching Beck is like smoking 10 packs a day.

We're not warning anybody of anything. How many packs a day were Walter Cronkite or Peter Jennings?

[Michael Hardner]

We're not warning anybody of anything. How many packs a day were Walter Cronkite or Peter Jennings?

Cronkite and Jennings were perhaps a pack a day ...

I will do the warning, then. I invite anybody who cares, though, to join me in pointing out the damage that bad information does.

[Shady]

We're not warning anybody of anything. How many packs a day were Walter Cronkite or Peter Jennings?

Exactly. It's the mainstream media that created Fox News. It's the mainstream media that created Glenn Beck. They created the partisan environment in which conservative media was born. And now they want to complain about it.

At least Glenn Beck tells you up front what his political beliefs are. He doesn't pretend to be a non-partisan, impartial arbiter like the mainstream media and other cable outlets have pretended to be for many years.

[sharkman]

Well said. The issue, for me, isn't whether or not Beck is a liar, anyway. It's that he's an anti-contemplative demagogue. That's his problem.

Frankly, I'm baffled by the fact that so many people admire Beck...or Limbaugh. People who should know better. There are far superior right-wing voices, some of them no doubt bona fide thinkers. I might disagree with them, but at least they put up some decent arguments, and don't use idiocy as their fall-back position.

It sounds like you have your mind made up about Beck. What I'm wondering is how you came to this conclusion. How many shows have you watched? Because in the 3 or 4 shows I've watched recently, I don't see any demagoguery going on. He said recently that he has 10 staffers doing nothing but research. That sounds like someone who isn't exactly anti-contemplative.

[bush_cheney2004]

Exactly. It's the mainstream media that created Fox News. It's the mainstream media that created Glenn Beck. They created the partisan environment in which conservative media was born. And now they want to complain about it.

Not only was it born, but it now commands a large ratings share compared to the competition.

At least Glenn Beck tells you up front what his political beliefs are. He doesn't pretend to be a non-partisan, impartial arbiter like the mainstream media and other cable outlets have pretended to be for many years.

Precisely...it is time for the pretenders to disabuse themselves of any such notion for an "impartial media". There is no such thing...never really has been. Hell, our own biases further confounds any such objectivity goal.

[Shady]

It sounds like you have your mind made up about Beck. What I'm wondering is how you came to this conclusion.

He comes to his conclusions using a prejudicial narrative that fits what he wants his reality to be.

[Michael Hardner]

Exactly. It's the mainstream media that created Fox News. It's the mainstream media that created Glenn Beck. They created the partisan environment in which conservative media was born. And now they want to complain about it.

Please. Beck wasn't created as a response to bias in the media. Fox already existed for years before he showed up.

At least Glenn Beck tells you up front what his political beliefs are. He doesn't pretend to be a non-partisan, impartial arbiter like the mainstream media and other cable outlets have pretended to be for many years.

No he doesn't ! He lies and pretends to not believe in Global Warming, according to his own words. He doesn't pretend to be non-partisan, but he doesn't try either. So fine, he provides editorial comment.

But that's not the issue. The issue is:

1) He engages in name-calling and scare mongering that isn't supported by facts

2) He says things that even he doesn't believe

3) Despite the fact that he's an entertainer, many people listen to him as factual

I don't like Rush either for some of the same reasons but Rush is more specific in his complaints, and likely (to my knowledge) believes what he himself says.

That's the two elemental issues about Beck I can name off the top of my head. If we want to have 'Howard Beale' type news "personalities" then that's fine, as long as we create real news somewhere that people can get real information from.

How would you respond if I said "Michael Moore lies and makes things up but it's a good thing he's doing it because nobody is representing that end of the political spectrum.". Would you say that that makes sense ? If not, then why is it ok for people to say that about right-of-centre politics ? It seems pathetic that right wingers would defend cartoon characters like Beck, when there is a tradition of solid thinking conservatives before him. I don't understand why you settle for such pap. Why isn't David Frum more of a voice for conservatives ?

[Michael Hardner]

It sounds like you have your mind made up about Beck. What I'm wondering is how you came to this conclusion. How many shows have you watched? Because in the 3 or 4 shows I've watched recently, I don't see any demagoguery going on.

For a quasi-journalist to engage in this kind of behavior even 5% of the time is unacceptable.

He said recently that he has 10 staffers doing nothing but research. That sounds like someone who isn't exactly anti-contemplative.

Which of those staffers gave him the information that Obama is a racist, or that there are secret plans for socialism and euthanasia under way ?

[Michael Hardner]

He comes to his conclusions using a prejudicial narrative that fits what he wants his reality to be.

Beck does, yes.

[Shady]

1) He engages in name-calling and scare mongering that isn't supported by facts

Just like the mainstream media!

2) He says things that even he doesn't believe

Just like the mainstream media!

3) Despite the fact that he's an entertainer, many people listen to him as factual

Just like the mainstream media!

How would you respond if I said "Michael Moore lies and makes things up but it's a good thing he's doing it because nobody is representing that end of the political spectrum.".

I disagree with your premise. I don't believe that Beck "makes things up." He gives his opinions. Some may be right. Some may be wrong.

Beck says himself that he isn't a journalist!

Hey Micheal, it's almost as though he's directly replying to you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar1M0JPanqY

[bush_cheney2004]

...But that's not the issue. The issue is:

1) He engages in name-calling and scare mongering that isn't supported by facts

2) He says things that even he doesn't believe

3) Despite the fact that he's an entertainer, many people listen to him as factual....

So what? He is an entertainer tasked with maintaining ratings share. If you don't like his schtick then don't watch or listen to him...or Fox News for that matter. Free speech means something in the United States...sorry!

[sharkman]

For a quasi-journalist to engage in this kind of behavior even 5% of the time is unacceptable.

Which of those staffers gave him the information that Obama is a racist, or that there are secret plans for socialism and euthanasia under way ?

Huh? Obama is a racist. His bizarre intervention of the cop/crazy black man who broke into his own home and His gun and religion clinger comments show this. His background connections and associations with socialists and commmunists show a historic fascination with socialism. His actions at present while in office show what he is.

I don't know enough about the euthanasia comment to respond, but the health care bill has some really scary wording, which has been discussed on this forum repeatedly. I suppose all of this means nothing to you and Obama is doing quite well.

What things about Obama would concern you?

[BubberMiley]

zzz

Edited May 17, 2010 by BubberMiley

[sharkman]

MH, I noticed you didn't mention how many shows of his you watched while coming to your decision. You have probably come to your conclusion on him based on what you've heard from the MSM then. Clips taken out of context. Or video where Whoopi decides Beck is a bag of dog crap because he may have been mistaken as to whether a seat was reserved or not.

[Wilber]

zzz

Ditto

[Michael Hardner]

Just like the mainstream media!

Just like the mainstream media!

Just like the mainstream media!

There's a qualitative difference between what he does and what mainstream media does, and that is obvious. You honestly can't put Beck beside newscasts and say "see it's the same thing".

I disagree with your premise. I don't believe that Beck "makes things up." He gives his opinions. Some may be right. Some may be wrong.

But he contradicts himself. He says that you'd have to be an idiot not to believe Global Warming, then he says that Global Warming is fake.

[Michael Hardner]

So what? He is an entertainer tasked with maintaining ratings share. If you don't like his schtick then don't watch or listen to him...or Fox News for that matter. Free speech means something in the United States...sorry!

Free Speech means something here too. I'm not saying he should be banned, but that people need to know that this stuff is not to be believed, and that it's not a replacement for real information.

If people eat only junk food, then they eventually become obese and die. Similarly, if they consume only junk information, then they are eventually unable to make decisions based on facts.

We have health groups to warn us about junk food but who warns us about junk information ? Nobody does, so we have to talk about it ourselves.

[bush_cheney2004]

There's a qualitative difference between what he does and what mainstream media does, and that is obvious. You honestly can't put Beck beside newscasts and say "see it's the same thing"

Yes he can...ever heard of Dan Rather (CBS News)? He had to resign in disgrace, and his producer was fired.

[Michael Hardner]

Huh? Obama is a racist. His bizarre intervention of the cop/crazy black man who broke into his own home and His gun and religion clinger comments show this. His background connections and associations with socialists and commmunists show a historic fascination with socialism. His actions at present while in office show what he is.

It's another thing entirely to report that he's a racist or socialist, than to suppose it out loud. Did mainstream news call GW Bush a racist for Katrina ? I don't remember the networks saying that.

I don't know enough about the euthanasia comment to respond, but the health care bill has some really scary wording, which has been discussed on this forum repeatedly. I suppose all of this means nothing to you and Obama is doing quite well.

Your fears may be real to you, and Beck's may be real to him but scaremongering to that level is counter-productive.

What things about Obama would concern you?

What things about Obama would concern me ? I'm concerned that he isn't working to simplify systems as much as he could be - how's that ?

Maybe better context on alarmism, and my take on it:I wasn't concerned when GW Bush asked for more surveillance of private communications, and argued against people who thought it was the beginning of a fascist state.

These comparisons are ridiculous and Beck uses them too often.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes he can...ever heard of Dan Rather (CBS News)? He had to resign in disgrace, and his producer was fired.

Hmmmmm.... yes, I think I heard of him. He had to resign, it is thought to be partially due to the fact that they strained the lines of objectivity.

Again -> he had to *resign* because of this.

Do you see the difference yet ?