Oleg Bach Posted September 22, 2009 Report Posted September 22, 2009 Big buisness controls the fate of Omar Khdar. Watching the court of appeal in Ontario, I witnessed part of an extradition of a person who knew to much about the affairs of Richard Cheney and some of the left over Enron boys. He was the classic man who knew to much. He also told me outside if Osgoode Hall.."the last two guys they booted out of Canada are dead". I believe this man would not have faired well at the Supreme Court Of Canada either. I suspect that big Canadian buisness does favours for big American buisness though our judical system. The spiteful buggers that dispise Islamics will effect the decision of the Canadian court..Mark my word - Canada will cave in to the Americans...I will put money on it! Khdar is not coming back! Quote
waldo Posted September 22, 2009 Report Posted September 22, 2009 Hey Waldo,Looks like our debate will be settled on Friday morning should be interesting! http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Supreme+C...1082/story.html a dated article... which concerned whether or not the Supreme Court would actually hear the government appeal. And, of course, they opted to do so - my recollection is that around "mid-November", the actual ruling will come forward. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted September 22, 2009 Report Posted September 22, 2009 It's carved in stone before the paper works arrives what the outcome will be...thumbs down for Khdar. Place your bets now folks. Quote
wyly Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 Justice had nothing to do with the disbandment of the CAR, justice was served when those soldiers where charged in a court of law, where found guilty and sentenced, including those found guilty of not doing anything ....that was justice...the decision to disband the Regt was made to score political pionts, nothing more...I'm curious to know what message was sent....or what message did you recieve....As for the loyality to the rule of law, a soldier is responasable to 2 layers of law, civil law, military law, and to top all of that off the code of conduct within the Dept of National Defense. So i'm sure every soldier is well aware of where the rule of law stands in the grand sceme of things. I'm just not sure how collective punishment fits into this so called rule of law, because it's not in any Canadian law, or inter national law, or for that matter the Genva convention...in fact all of the above laws strictly state that collective punsihment is indeed unlawful....so much for that rule of law being supreme, but i guess that only go's when it seems polictically acceptable to do so....so one would have to ask are you really for the rule of law or are you for whats political acceptable ? collective punishment suits collective behaviour...and where in any rule of any law does it say Para regiments cannot be disbanded, this is a job when the boss re-assigns you, you do as your told or quit...the forces are not a private club for psychotic rambo's...want to play rambo go join the french legionaires... "The sorry sequence of events in Somalia was not the work of a few bad apples," concluded chairman Gilles Létourneau, a Federal Court of Canada judge, "but the inevitable result of systematic organization and leadership failures, many occurring over long periods of time and ignored by our military leaders for just as long." As the inquiry's report makes clear, the frame of mind among certain Airborne members was well-known to military leaders - and worrisome. One group, calling themselves the "Rebels," acted as though they were a law unto themselves. Against orders, they repeatedly raised the American Confederate flag in their barracks at Camp Petawawa, 130 km northwest of Ottawa. They torched the car of a sergeant who raised their ire. And even by combat unit standards, some Airborne troopers showed excessive aggressiveness in the view of senior officers. It was all very calculated. Using food and water as bait, a team of Canadian soldiers, including a sniper, lay waiting in the dark. Two Somalis crawled through a fence and grabbed the food. The soldiers ordered them to halt. When the Somalis turned and ran, the Canadians, equipped with night vision goggles, shot both of them in the back, killing one. Afterward, as the report notes, Canadian officers concluded that the troops were simply doing their job. But the commissioners disagree, writing that the deliberate trap was "a dubious interpretation of the rules of engagement." Seldom has a federal public inquiry been so blunt and unequivocal. The three commissioners called for a full-scale criminal investigation into the March 4, 1993, shooting by Canadian soldiers of two Somalis, one of whom died. They urged the government to look into possible perjury charges against senior military officials who, the commissioners said, lied on the witness stand. Then, in the spring of 1995, Maj. Barry Armstrong, a doctor who served in Belet Huen, went public with allegations that the Somali killed on March 4 had been shot in the back of the head at point-blank range.that army guy makes it murder, and it was covered up...the Para regiment was sick and out of control... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) collective punishment suits collective behaviour...and where in any rule of any law does it say Para regiments cannot be disbanded, this is a job when the boss re-assigns you, you do as your told or quit...the forces are not a private club for psychotic rambo's...want to play rambo go join the french legionaires...that army guy makes it murder, and it was covered up...the Para regiment was sick and out of control... You are in the running for the economy of words award, subcategory; least amount of words used to show you don't know what you are talkiong about. 1) There was no collective behavior that warranted punishment, only commendation 2) Collective punishent is the antithesis of Canadian justice. 3) The disbanding of the Airborne regiment was a serious mistake, which has only just started to be repaired by the JTF and other specialist units which, although comprised of many Airbornes NCOs and officers, had to be formed from scratch. Edited September 23, 2009 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 You are in the running for the economy of words award, subcategory; least amount of words used to show you don't know what you are talkiong about.1) There was no collective behavior that warranted punishment, only commendation 2) Collective punishent is the antithesis of Canadian justice. 3) The disbanding of the Airborne regiment was a serious mistake, which has only just started to be repaired by the JTF and other specialist units which, although comprised of many Airbornes NCOs and officers, had to be formed from scratch. I forgot about that. The mild and rowdy scandal that took place with the Airborne regiment...great profit politically but a huge mistake militarily. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 But the commissioners disagree, writing that the deliberate trap was "a dubious interpretation of the rules of engagement." Non-coms deciding what's right in war...amusing. Snipers lay traps all the time...it's part of the mission. Remember the tense little scene from 'Enemy At The Gates'? The one where one sniper (Ron Perlman) shoots the telephone line...knowing full well a German telephone technician will be along in a few minutes to string a new line. Bait. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
wyly Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Non-coms deciding what's right in war...amusing.Snipers lay traps all the time...it's part of the mission. Remember the tense little scene from 'Enemy At The Gates'? The one where one sniper (Ron Perlman) shoots the telephone line...knowing full well a German telephone technician will be along in a few minutes to string a new line. Bait. laid a trap to kill hungry somali's stealing food...then the reveal from the Para doctor that the one killed was shot point blank to the back of the head, Sniper? no murder... interesting how far you'll go to avoid the admitting the truth... Edited September 23, 2009 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
waldo Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 Non-coms deciding what's right in war...amusing.Snipers lay traps all the time...it's part of the mission. Remember the tense little scene from 'Enemy At The Gates'? The one where one sniper (Ron Perlman) shoots the telephone line...knowing full well a German telephone technician will be along in a few minutes to string a new line. Bait. war? Really? Just a bit free and loose with that term - wouldn't you say... considering it was a UN sanctioned response to, "continuing reports of widespread violations of international humanitarian law occurring in Somalia, including reports of violence and threats of violence against personnel participating lawfully in impartial humanitarian relief activities; deliberate attacks on non-combatants, relief consignments and vehicles, and medical and relief facilities; and impeding the delivery of food and medical supplies essential for the survival of the civilian population". an independent inquiry comprised of 3 commissionaires... 2 judges and a journalist (dean of journalism at UWO) - quite appropriate, indeed. as for your juvenile trivializing of the actual event, I've just had a quick read through portions of the actual Report of the Somalia Commission of Inquiry - sickening & disgraceful, to say the least. The 'chapter' on ROE reads like one grand cluster****, succinctly characterized by the Inquiry statement: In our view, though, no proper understanding of the ROE could justify using food or non-vital materiel as a device for luring Somalis into the compound and entrapping them. Moreover, the ROE of civilized nations do not encompass shooting fleeing, unarmed civilians in the back. bait? Part of the Mission? Really? ... well, I guess so - in a disgraced disbanded Canadian Airborne Regiment! Quote
wyly Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 I forgot about that. The mild and rowdy scandal that took place with the Airborne regiment...great profit politically but a huge mistake militarily. huge mistake lol!...please tell me what mythical enemy did they protect us from????....mild and rowdy? since when is murder is mild? If only military leaders had listened to warnings that the members of one of their most elite units were poorly trained, undisciplined and ill-equipped for the job. Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 war? Really? Just a bit free and loose with that term - wouldn't you say... considering it was a UN sanctioned response to, "continuing reports of widespread violations of international humanitarian law occurring in Somalia, including reports of violence and threats of violence against personnel participating lawfully in impartial humanitarian relief activities; deliberate attacks on non-combatants, relief consignments and vehicles, and medical and relief facilities; and impeding the delivery of food and medical supplies essential for the survival of the civilian population".an independent inquiry comprised of 3 commissionaires... 2 judges and a journalist (dean of journalism at UWO) - quite appropriate, indeed. as for your juvenile trivializing of the actual event, I've just had a quick read through portions of the actual Report of the Somalia Commission of Inquiry - sickening & disgraceful, to say the least. The 'chapter' on ROE reads like one grand cluster****, succinctly characterized by the Inquiry statement: bait? Part of the Mission? Really? ... well, I guess so - in a disgraced disbanded Canadian Airborne Regiment! You'd be telling me that in a blown out tractor factory in Stalingrad with Germans blasting away at us and I'd be looking at you like you were mad. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
waldo Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 You'd be telling me that in a blown out tractor factory in Stalingrad with Germans blasting away at us and I'd be looking at you like you were mad. keep on shovlin’… at least you’re now in the “war” ball-park. Your automatic go-to tendency is to deflect – perhaps one needs to be more direct with the hawkish. Do you believe the ROE, understood and being followed by the Canadian Airborne Regiment, substantiated the actions taken by those members involved in the “Somali Affair”… the actions that resulted in disgrace, dishonour and disbanding of the regiment? Are you all for shooting in the back and execution style killing? Quote
wyly Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 keep on shovlin’… at least you’re now in the “war” ball-park. Your automatic go-to tendency is to deflect – perhaps one needs to be more direct with the hawkish. Do you believe the ROE, understood and being followed by the Canadian Airborne Regiment, substantiated the actions taken by those members involved in the “Somali Affair”… the actions that resulted in disgrace, dishonour and disbanding of the regiment? Are you all for shooting in the back and execution style killing? don't forget those somali's were stealing food that's an offense under the Geneva Convention that allows Canadians with out a trail to terminate the offending food terrorist with a bullet to the back of the head...this is true just ask wulf42 to confirm... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wulf42 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) don't forget those somali's were stealing food that's an offense under the Geneva Convention that allows Canadians with out a trail to terminate the offending food terrorist with a bullet to the back of the head...this is true just ask wulf42 to confirm... Not sure about Somali's but our soldiers putting a bullet in the back of an Islamic terrorist's head...is not a bad thing!! but if it makes you feel they can shoot them from the front too......... Edited September 23, 2009 by wulf42 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 Are you all for shooting in the back and execution style killing? Partisans know the penalty for getting caught. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Moonlight Graham Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 Doesn t apply to traitors and AL Qaeda terrorist's..................why can t you get it??Half of Canada doesn t want this terrorist allowed back into the country!!! He should face justice in the good ole USA!! not our problem!! http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/689740 Why should he face trial in the U.S.? Even if he is a terrorist and a traitor, he should still face trail in this country under our laws. Criminals should be punished, but in a fair and humane way as is the rule of law both in the U.S. and Canada. The U.S. has proven that what happens in Gitmo is far from humane or under the rule of law. That's why it's being closed down. I don't have much faith that he will be treated fairly in a Gitmo trial. The 40% of Canadians polled who think he will be treated fairly in a Gitmo trial are either dim or delusional. Unfortunately, Khadr is a Canadian and is our problem. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
M.Dancer Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 Even if he is a terrorist and a traitor, he should still face trail in this country under our laws. . Why should he receive special consideration? What other criminal, caught by americans in a criminal act against americans, gets sent home to Canada for trial? How about the millenium bomber? Is anyone clamouiring for his sorry behind to be broughht to canada? I think not. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
wulf42 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Posted September 23, 2009 Why should he face trial in the U.S.? Even if he is a terrorist and a traitor, he should still face trail in this country under our laws. Criminals should be punished, but in a fair and humane way as is the rule of law both in the U.S. and Canada. The U.S. has proven that what happens in Gitmo is far from humane or under the rule of law. That's why it's being closed down. I don't have much faith that he will be treated fairly in a Gitmo trial. The 40% of Canadians polled who think he will be treated fairly in a Gitmo trial are either dim or delusional. Unfortunately, Khadr is a Canadian and is our problem. Well actually no he is not our problem........he commited a terrorist act in a foreign country against a Nato country and he was caught and he killed an American soldier..that automatically makes him the Americans problem...and honestly does anyone care what they do to Al Qaida members at Gitmo........i am thinking probably not! In Canada he will get a slap on the wrist that is not justice...he should face a U.S. military tribunal and if found guilty then he should be taken out and shot .....end of problem! Quote
Oleg Bach Posted September 24, 2009 Report Posted September 24, 2009 Terrorist act ? That would be like a British citizen that settles in Canada - He goes back to his old home to protect his traditional turf...does that make him a terrorist? His dad was a nut..Khdar was just a stupid little boy that they let age to justify the capture of a child...real heros those Americans are - The have no Bin Laden but they have the boy - who now has a big scarey beard...The public forgets the boys face -- they only see the adult face - and that passage of time to achieve this propogandist effect was done with intent ---You can't have an old bugger like Dick Cheney beating up a mere boy... Quote
wyly Posted September 24, 2009 Report Posted September 24, 2009 Partisans know the penalty for getting caught. Partisans??? there was no war, they weren't the enemy, they were hungry...your type of thinking is that which the Para were disbanded... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted September 24, 2009 Report Posted September 24, 2009 Partisans??? there was no war, they weren't the enemy, they were hungry...your type of thinking is that which the Para were disbanded... The criminal behaviour of certain members of the CAR and probable incompetence of the leadership were stupid reasons to dismantle the unit. In my opinion, had the government not sent an untried combat unit to hand out bread in a war-zone, this wouldn't have happened. And yes...there certainly was a war going on...the Somali Civil War. Blackhawk Down...etc. Instead, they really should have sent you and those like you who are willing to go to a dangerous war-torn land as true peacekeepers...that is, unarmed. Until then, you get what you pay for in this world. I think it taught the Canadian Armed Forces a valuable lesson re: overseas deployments. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
wulf42 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Posted September 24, 2009 Partisans??? there was no war, they weren't the enemy, they were hungry...your type of thinking is that which the Para were disbanded... Sending in a commando squad for peacekeeping duties was not a smart move on Ottawa's part! these troops were training to go in quick kill the enemy and get out...disbanding them is just another dark blotch on Canada's history! They sent the wrong troops for that type of mission! Quote
waldo Posted September 24, 2009 Report Posted September 24, 2009 keep on shovlin’… at least you’re now in the “war” ball-park. Your automatic go-to tendency is to deflect – perhaps one needs to be more direct with the hawkish. Do you believe the ROE, understood and being followed by the Canadian Airborne Regiment, substantiated the actions taken by those members involved in the “Somali Affair”… the actions that resulted in disgrace, dishonour and disbanding of the regiment? Are you all for shooting in the back and execution style killing?Partisans know the penalty for getting caught.Partisans??? there was no war, they weren't the enemy, they were hungry...your type of thinking is that which the Para were disbanded...The criminal behaviour of certain members of the CAR and probable incompetence of the leadership..... well - good on ya! But acknowledging criminal behaviour is only a baby step... it doesn't answer the original question posed as to whether or not, given your previous statements, you actually endorse that "shooting in the back and execution style killing", criminal behaviour. Question posed - question still unanswered. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 24, 2009 Report Posted September 24, 2009 well - good on ya! But acknowledging criminal behaviour is only a baby step... it doesn't answer the original question posed as to whether or not, given your previous statements, you actually endorse that "shooting in the back and execution style killing", criminal behaviour. Question posed - question still unanswered. And I said it would be super if instead of armed paratroopers they had sent wyle and yourself and brave folks like you who are willing to go into an armed conflict w/o being armed to perform the peacekeeping duties that we as a country are so keen on. Good on ya...as you'd say. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted September 24, 2009 Report Posted September 24, 2009 Why should he receive special consideration? What other criminal, caught by americans in a criminal act against americans, gets sent home to Canada for trial? What special consideration, he would be subject to the same treatment that all the other prisoners who were repatriated received. It seems to me its Canada that's looking for the special consideration here. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.