Moonbox Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Putting aside the argument of child soldiers - this is a perfect example of why there should be responsibilities associated in retaining Canadian citizenship for first generation Canadians. Call it a probation period. By any application of common sense, the entire Khadr family are not Canadians. Exactly how I feel. Khadr is not, as far as I'm concerned, a Canadian. He has no business here, despite whatever technicalities people can come up with. Canadian Citizenship is a privilege, not some shield that dirt bags should be able to hide behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Putting aside the argument of child soldiers - this is a perfect example of why there should be responsibilities associated in retaining Canadian citizenship for first generation Canadians. Call it a probation period. By any application of common sense, the entire Khadr family are not Canadians. 'Let's just set aside the fact that Omar was a child soldier and engage in enflaming our hatred for immigrants for a second.' If you're not Aboriginal Canadian when you type, then you're a twit; what right have you to decide a `probationary period'? Your own family are decendants of immigrants. Come on, explain your idea of `responsibilities'. Screw your `common sense', you Harrisite. Go `apply' yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Exactly how I feel.Khadr is not, as far as I'm concerned, a Canadian. He has no business here, despite whatever technicalities people can come up with. Canadian Citizenship is a privilege, not some shield that dirt bags should be able to hide behind. If you are born here, you are born here and are a Canadian Citizen. No country has the legal right to have Canada force its citizens upon them simply for the sake that some Canadians no longer wish to accept that Canadian as a citizen. Years ago, I stated that if the US wants to deport him back to Canada, then he is our problem to deal with. Fact is, what has happened to this person, the influence of his father, the Chretian screwup, the lack of followup on this family and their activities and the fact that Canada turns its back upon child soldiers, and for all intensive purposes he is... to languish in a jail for years without trial is disgraceful, not matter wtf you might think or feel. There is no doubt in my mind, that enough time has passed that this now young man is going to be returned to Canada and the damaged has been compounded exponentially and we are going to have a difficult time in knowing what to do with a person, who may not be able to be convicted of a crime in any country, including Canada......then what does Canada do when he comes back. Of course many clowns will put in smart ass answers here, or radical feelings. None of which changes what is going to happen in the near future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 But he's not an innocent child. He's a murderer. Would you feel the same way if an American terrorist killed a Canadian soldier? I doubt it. If there is a case, I'm sure the U.S. will prosecute it. However, we haven't see it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 There is no doubt in my mind, that enough time has passed that this now young man is going to be returned to Canada and the damaged has been compounded exponentially and we are going to have a difficult time in knowing what to do with a person, who may not be able to be convicted of a crime in any country, including Canada......then what does Canada do when he comes back. Due to a lack of strong, moral leadership, Canada is having a difficult time figuring out what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 If you are born here, you are born here and are a Canadian Citizen. No country has the legal right to have Canada force its citizens upon them simply for the sake that some Canadians no longer wish to accept that Canadian as a citizen. That's the legal definition of citizenship. It is, however, a citizenship of convenience, regardless of what his documents say. There is no doubt in my mind, that enough time has passed that this now young man is going to be returned to Canada and the damaged has been compounded exponentially and we are going to have a difficult time in knowing what to do with a person, who may not be able to be convicted of a crime in any country, including Canada......then what does Canada do when he comes back. It's something that should have been dealt with years ago you're right. It's way more a mess now that it was 6 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Let us show what the basis of our civilization was and still is - That we are a family of compassionate people. Show the Muslim world that we in many respects are superiour to them in our old Christian values - that forgiveness is important - IF Khdar had offended those in the Kindom Of Saudi Arabia in the same manner as he alledgedly offended the west - he would have been buried headless six years ago....If we show compassion for this young man - and he reacts well to that show of love...GREAT! - If he bites the hand that saves his ass in the future - lock the ungrateful little bastard up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 'Christian' values are in no way superior to 'Islamic' values. Islam is a religion of peace. There are simply a lot of people who have distorted and perverted its teachings, just like people have done for Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 That's the legal definition of citizenship. It is, however, a citizenship of convenience, regardless of what his documents say. Under what provision of the law do you think he should be stripped of his citizenship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Under what provision of the law do you think he should be stripped of his citizenship? You can't....and under our rules, having been born here, we're stuck with him. The horse is out of the barn.....but I think there is much room for debate on establishing better legislation to put more responsibilities on those who obtain Canadian Citizenship. As I said - a probation period of perhaps 10 years to weed out the "citizens of convenience". Khadr's mother in particular hated Canada and the West. Khadr's father seems to have been a humanitarian who ended up the quagmire of Afghanistan. Both however took everything from Canada and gave nothing back. Khadr Sr. got a degree and left shortly thereafter, only to return when he or his children needed medical care. Perhaps probationary legislation would not have caught the Khadr's but they are a perfect example of why we should try to attach more responsibilities and expectations to earning Canadian citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted August 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 You can't....and under our rules, having been born here, we're stuck with him. The horse is out of the barn.....but I think there is much room for debate on establishing better legislation to put more responsibilities on those who obtain Canadian Citizenship. As I said - a probation period of perhaps 10 years to weed out the "citizens of convenience". Khadr's mother in particular hated Canada and the West. Khadr's father seems to have been a humanitarian who ended up the quagmire of Afghanistan. Both however took everything from Canada and gave nothing back. Khadr Sr. got a degree and left shortly thereafter, only to return when he or his children needed medical care. Perhaps probationary legislation would not have caught the Khadr's but they are a perfect example of why we should try to attach more responsibilities and expectations to earning Canadian citizenship. We don't know if he was set free if he would even stay in Canada. I imagine his mental health would have changed being tortured by the US and locked up. I think he should try to clear his name as far as if he did kill someone but like everyone says on here, isn't that what war is about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think he should try to clear his name as far as if he did kill someone but like everyone says on here, isn't that what war is about? Only if you are a soldier, or a legitimate legal combatant and even then, only if you have authorization within the rules of engagement. Everyone else can be charged with murder and dealth with according to the laws of the nation which captures the accused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Khadr's father seems to have been a humanitarian who ended up the quagmire of Afghanistan. I would agree, if you go by the current bio version on wikipedia. Someone's done a masterful job of editing out anything negative on him. If you have a minute though, you can click on the history button and compare the current version with earlier ones. Watch the 60 minutes video as well and do a search on him. CBC has some good info. His charity work included funneling money to Al Qaeda. He did run orphanages in Afghanistan, but he ran them to recruit children. When Chretien helped free him, he was being held for a bombing that killed 15 people. And his son, Abdurahman, said he raised him to be a suicide bomber. According to CBC, he was suspected of not only being a high-ranking member of Al Qaeda, but one of its founding members. He's about as much as a humanitarian as Dobbin is a Conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Bring him back and charge him with his crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Seriously......who really cares what happens to this terrorist??? let him rot in Guantanamo, i think this country has more important things to worry about than the fate of Omar! Let the Americans keep him, we certainly don t want him back... then there will be one less here in Canada to worry about! Edited August 18, 2009 by wulf42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Seriously......who really cares what happens to this terrorist??? Apparently the Federal Courts do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Apparently the Federal Courts do. Exactly! The court has ruled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Exactly! The court has ruled. In a perfect world these terrorist's including Omar would be taken up north dropped into the middle of a Polar Bear Colony after first being sprayed with Seal oil!..........but hey what can you do.......i guess that is why i am not the Justice Minister! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 The man in question needs to be tried in a court of law. Guilt or innocence is determined there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) The man in question needs to be tried in a court of law. Guilt or innocence is determined there. Oh yes our great Canadian Justice System............lol.. what a joke even if he is found guilty he'll get a slap on the wrist!...again in a perfect world if these terrorist's are found guilty they would be shot immediately as saboteurs out of uniform....like we did in WW2 to spies and saboteurs! This country is way to soft on Terrorism and that is why we will ultimately lose unless Canada gets tough.........criminal's and terrorist's alike know how soft our Justice system is and they thrive on it...on W-5 once there was a show and they were talking to convicted criminals who were out after a relatively short time in prison and they were laughing at how slack the Justice system is...as Canadians we should all be proud right???! Edited August 18, 2009 by wulf42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 So try him on a charge of treason. Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada has two degrees of treason, called "high treason" and "treason." However, both of these belong to the historical category of high treason, as opposed to petty treason which does not exist in Canadian law. Section 46 reads as follows: "High treason (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada, (a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her; ( levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or © assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are. Treason (2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada, (a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province; ( without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada; © conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a); (d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or (e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( and manifests that intention by an overt act." It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada. The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)( or (e) in peacetime. It seems to me a charge worthy of the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 So try him on a charge of treason.It seems to me a charge worthy of the effort. You'd never get a conviction for treason. His lawyers could say he was cut off from outside communication and he wasn't aware Canada was involved in the conflict. His mother, on the other hand, should be tried for treason and child abuse. I'm sure the defense there would be that Canadian law shouldn't apply because the crimes didn't occur on Canadian soil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) So try him on a charge of treason.It seems to me a charge worthy of the effort. How is it treason against Canada? I don't believe we were 'at war' at that time. The first thing the lawyers and the Crown will consider is his age at the time - 15 - and how he came to be involved - his father. What do you think - would they try him as a juvenile or as an adult? Would they be able to try him for treason at all? Edited August 18, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 The first thing the lawyers and the Crown will consider is his age at the time - 15 - and how he came to be involved - his father.What do you think - would they try him as a juvenile or as an adult? He is an adult now. Ask him what he believes, that should provide the necessary information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think it would be premature to discuss lil omar coming back before we have a full and open debate regarding capital punishment. So lets debate capital punishment for 20 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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