Omar Khdar

[waldo]

the Harper Conservative application seeking leave to appeal in the Supreme Court:

... assert that there is "an emerging trend" in the Federal Court to issue orders that interfere with the government's discretion to conduct its foreign relations as it sees fit.

"Clarification of the extent to which the charter may reverse foreign policy is important to assist Canadian officials in carrying out Canada's international commitments and legal obligations...

so... apparently... the Harper Conservatives rolled over in accepting the June 2009 Federal Court ruling that ordered the Harper Conservative government to facilitate the return of Abousfian Abdelrazik

but enough is enough - damnit! How dare the Federal Court... and the Federal Appeals Court rule against the Harper Conservatives right to deny Canadian citizen Omar Khadr due justice within Canadian courts.

a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian... just what are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

[Jack Weber]

Waldo,it seems to me that the problem for Mr.Harper and his merry band of reform...er...Conservatives,is that they really agree with the Bush/Cheney Doctrine and believe in the explanation of "enhanced interrogation techyniques".I also believe that the old Reform view of the world,as it relates to people who might have the last name of Khadr or Abdulrazik,is rearing it's ugly head.There's also Mr.Harper's obstinence and intransigence for the decisions of the Supreme Court.I'm waiting for he,or one of his minions,to break out the "activist judges" line shortly.

Having said all of that,I believe Khadr at his age to be a lost cause.In all likliehood,he should end up in prison for the rest of his life.I'm afraid he is the result of brainwashing by his dispicable,treasonous,POS family that should have had there citizenship revoked and sent back to Afghanistan to fight their war there.These people have openly admittede they were an Al Quaeda family and hated everything about this country.They taught this to their son,but mommy Khadr wants her baby back,after he was caught in a war zone doing specifically what that family taught him to do.

As bad as it is,the law as it relates to Canadian citizens imprisoned abroad,must work even for the Omar Khadr's of this country so that it can work for all of us...

Edited September 5, 2009 by Jack Weber

[waldo]

As bad as it is,the law as it relates to Canadian citizens imprisoned abroad,must work even for the Omar Khadr's of this country so that it can work for all of us...

very succinct... a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian - something the Harper Conservatives are fighting all the way to the Supreme Court. Shame!

[wulf42]

very succinct... a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian - something the Harper Conservatives are fighting all the way to the Supreme Court. Shame!

Omar is not a Canadian never was never will be.............he is the enemy in its purest form, i can see all the middle Easterner's in Canada and Liberals celebrating if he is returned dancing in the streets. If this happens it is to the USA for me Seriously!! Canada will have lost the war on terror and Canada will have been assimulated into another Pakistan full of Al Qaeda and terrorist's!

[Guest American Woman]

Seven years in a prison without a full trial? Now look, if he's guilty I'm all for pursuing the law, but to leave people languishing in jail for years without proving their guilt in a proper court, well that just shocks my conscience.

This government is obviously playing politics with the case, trying to delay the inevitable and hoping for another way out. If the case attracts a high level of public interest it will damage the CPC... especially if during an election. Well, that could be a form of justice.

Most of those years were under the Bush administration, in a prison that's being closed by the present administration; an administration that's been in power for only a little over 6 months. So Canada's Foreign Affairs Department's attitude of 'wait and see what the US is going to do now' makes sense. He's accused of murder, so I'm not sure Canada's asking for his return will automatically result in his return.

[Topaz]

I find it hard to believe that both groups that are profit driven would spend hundreds of bils of dollars seeking revenge for a project that would not see that amount of profit.... does that make sense to "anyone" ....or do i need to adjust my tinfoil hat again....

[/quote

Did the Cheney/ Bush era make sense ? Both Cheney and Bush will come out with their books and they probably try to change what really happen. When people can't debate an answer it always "tinfoil". I wonder did Noah and the Ark get a tinfoil answer to the rain that was coming? If we don't open our minds to the possiblities of what "could" happen and what governments are responsible for then the people are in big trouble.

[Sir Bandelot]

Most of those years were under the Bush administration, in a prison that's being closed by the present administration; an administration that's been in power for only a little over 6 months. So Canada's Foreign Affairs Department's attitude of 'wait and see what the US is going to do now' makes sense. He's accused of murder, so I'm not sure Canada's asking for his return will automatically result in his return.

You may be right. His return to Canada does not mean so much to me, as his prosecution. That's what irks me... imprisonment for years without due process. That sounds like something they might do in Iran or Kenya, or some other nasty place. Because when we fight to enforce due process on prisoners, we fight for our own freedom and democracy.

[waldo]

As bad as it is,the law as it relates to Canadian citizens imprisoned abroad,must work even for the Omar Khadr's of this country so that it can work for all of us...

very succinct... a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian - something the Harper Conservatives are fighting all the way to the Supreme Court. Shame!

Omar is not a Canadian never was never will be.............he is the enemy in its purest form, i can see all the middle Easterner's in Canada and Liberals celebrating if he is returned dancing in the streets. If this happens it is to the USA for me Seriously!! Canada will have lost the war on terror and Canada will have been assimulated into another Pakistan full of Al Qaeda and terrorist's!

your seething hatred blinds you from the most salient points:

- advocating for Khadr's return does not being his immediate release... does not invoke your nightmarish dancing in the street celebrations. It brings Khardr the due process he deserves... as a Canadian.

...imprisonment for years without due process. That sounds like something they might do in Iran or Kenya, or some other nasty place. Because when we fight to enforce due process on prisoners, we fight for our own freedom and democracy.

why does wulf42 hate our freedoms?

[bush_cheney2004]

You may be right. His return to Canada does not mean so much to me, as his prosecution. That's what irks me... imprisonment for years without due process. That sounds like something they might do in Iran or Kenya, or some other nasty place.....

...including the United Kingdom and Canada, which has been practicing "preventive detention" for years with court orders and security certificates, respectively. Nasty places?

[Guest American Woman]

You may be right. His return to Canada does not mean so much to me, as his prosecution. That's what irks me... imprisonment for years without due process. That sounds like something they might do in Iran or Kenya, or some other nasty place. Because when we fight to enforce due process on prisoners, we fight for our own freedom and democracy.

This war is unusual in that it's against a group of people, not a country, so that makes 'defining' who is what and what is what more ambiguous. And that's a real problem, I think. In the past, if someone were captured holding out with the enemy, and detained in a POW camp, would anyone question it? Would anyone think they should be tried and let go if found innocent before the war was over? Do we expect our troops who are captured to be tried and let go? Or do we understand that in war, prisoners are taken? So I think that's why the Obama administration needs time to sort these questions out, and why Canadian officials are willing to give them that time. I'm not sure the Canadian government, as part of this war effort itself, is any more sure what the right answer is than the Obama administration is.

As for myself, I agree that being held without a trial is "irksome," yet on the other hand, I wonder if we are expected to "try" every one of the enemy combatants that we capture in gunfights, etc., and release them if they aren't actually directly responsible for killing anyone.

[waldo]

...including the United Kingdom and Canada, which has been practicing "preventive detention" for years with court orders and security certificates, respectively. Nasty places?

on some levels… the UK and Canada have progressed beyond the indefinite detention of your Guantanamo… where now in the UK/Canada, improved bail procedures and special advocate lawyers are allowed to protect the rights of the accused by attending hearings and reviewing/challenging government evidence.

yes… progressed on some levels… but as the single remaining westerner within Guantanamo, Khadr remains a testament to the fact this Harper Conservative government won’t extend the same rights to all Canadians by bringing Khadr back to Canada. What are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

[noahbody]

As for myself, I agree that being held without a trial is "irksome," yet on the other hand, I wonder if we are expected to "try" every one of the enemy combatants that we capture in gunfights, etc., and release them if they aren't actually directly responsible for killing anyone.

That's something the 60 Minutes piece pointed out, even if he's found not guilty, the US doesn't have to release him. It's the mother who is the only Khadr who should be tried in Canada, for child abuse and as a traitor. Maybe a plea bargain could be reached in which the mother would voluntarily give up her Canadian citizenship and agree to move to Pakistan or Afghanistan in exchange for charges being dropped. I would even support the government buying them a home as it would save taxpayers millions in security costs.

[Jack Weber]

on some levels… the UK and Canada have progressed beyond the indefinite detention of your Guantanamo… where now in the UK/Canada, improved bail procedures and special advocate lawyers are allowed to protect the rights of the accused by attending hearings and reviewing/challenging government evidence.

yes… progressed on some levels… but as the single remaining westerner within Guantanamo, Khadr remains a testament to the fact this Harper Conservative government won’t extend the same rights to all Canadians by bringing Khadr back to Canada. What are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

Waldo,dare I say this has alot to do with the political rights thinly veiled Arab bloodlust,than it has to do with due process?Khadr and his family are complete scum,however,the law must work for them so that it can work for all.Wulfee,and Mr.Harper,want to pick and chose who the law applies to.In there world,it would NOT apply to anyone with the last name of Abdulrazik,Arar,or,Khadr.

[Jack Weber]

That's something the 60 Minutes piece pointed out, even if he's found not guilty, the US doesn't have to release him. It's the mother who is the only Khadr who should be tried in Canada, for child abuse and as a traitor. Maybe a plea bargain could be reached in which the mother would voluntarily give up her Canadian citizenship and agree to move to Pakistan or Afghanistan in exchange for charges being dropped. I would even support the government buying them a home as it would save taxpayers millions in security costs.

This I would agree with wholeheartedly.It's clear Mommy Khadr hates this country and it's values.I feel that if she feels this way,she is no longer entitled to the freedoms we have in Canada that were bought with alot of blood.

Send this scum back to Afghanistan,and let them fight their war on the West there!

[bush_cheney2004]

on some levels… the UK and Canada have progressed beyond the indefinite detention of your Guantanamo… where now in the UK/Canada, improved bail procedures and special advocate lawyers are allowed to protect the rights of the accused by attending hearings and reviewing/challenging government evidence.

Yes....all while the "preventive detention" continues....how progressive!

yes… progressed on some levels… but as the single remaining westerner within Guantanamo, Khadr remains a testament to the fact this Harper Conservative government won’t extend the same rights to all Canadians by bringing Khadr back to Canada. What are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

Not sure what relevance his status as a "westerner" means.....many Canadians are incarcerated around the world.

[wulf42]

your seething hatred blinds you from the most salient points:

- advocating for Khadr's return does not being his immediate release... does not invoke your nightmarish dancing in the street celebrations. It brings Khardr the due process he deserves... as a Canadian.

why does wulf42 hate our freedoms?

you mean my hatred of those who would destroy our way of life and try to force their evil religion upon us?

those would kill everyone and anyone who oppose Islam including our children?

those who if given a chance who take your's and mine freedoms away and replace with Sharia Law?

those who kill their hostages by slowly cutting off their head why they scream in horrific pain?

those who would oppress women and treat them like dogs? (Actually dogs are treated better)

those who would destroy our education system and replace with teaching of the Koran?

those wh...............well you get the point! well actually you don t get the point you and many

others who support these animals!! Our freedoms are for Canadians not Islamic Extremists

who are trying to take them away........most 5 year old kids could understand such a basic concept

why do you find it so hard to understand???

Omar is Al Qaeda...remember the guys who knocked down the twin towers?

remember the guys who plan to launch attacks in Toronto and kill our men women and kids??

and yet you defend them and what they stand for........well what can i say other than

if there are many of your type then this country has had it! Let me guess you will be one of the people

cheering when they bring this enemy terrorist back so he can kill again??

Omar killed an American soldier!!!!!!.................the Americans should do whatever they want to this scumbag

if they shoot him we should them a thank you letter! Its only too bad they didn t off this idiot when they had the chance!

Edited September 5, 2009 by wulf42

[wulf42]

Yes....all while the "preventive detention" continues....how progressive!

Not sure what relevance his status as a "westerner" means.....many Canadians are incarcerated around the world.

Very true and Omar should be no different!

Edited September 5, 2009 by wulf42

[wulf42]

Waldo,dare I say this has alot to do with the political rights thinly veiled Arab bloodlust,than it has to do with due process?Khadr and his family are complete scum,however,the law must work for them so that it can work for all.Wulfee,and Mr.Harper,want to pick and chose who the law applies to.In there world,it would NOT apply to anyone with the last name of Abdulrazik,Arar,or,Khadr.

Actually it would not apply to anyone who is a terrorist and is at war with the Canada!

those people are traitors and should be shot by military firing squad!

Edited September 5, 2009 by wulf42

[waldo]

and yet you defend them and what they stand for........well what can i say other than if there are many of your type then this country has had it! Let me guess you will be one of the people cheering when they bring this enemy terrorist back so he can kill again??

Omar killed an American soldier!!!!!!.................the Americans should do whatever they want to this scumbag

if they shoot him we should them a thank you letter! Its only too bad they didn t off this idiot when they had the chance!

and you are obtuse to the point of boredom... the "defending" you rail on about is an assortment of MLW posters "defending" a fundamental principle of our justice system... that an accused is innocent until proven guilty. Your suggestion that some are defending "them", and are "defending" what "they" stand for, is simply your deluded paranoia and hate run rampant.

until the accused is tried and found guilty, he is no more guilty than yourself. The accused has not received his due process and a possible guilty sentencing outcome. You state with absolute certainty that the alleged crime(s) are fact... because the court of wulf42 has so decreed! Let the process proceed on Canadian soil, within the Canadian judiciary... what are you, and the Harper Conservatives, so afraid of?

[capricorn]

but as the single remaining westerner within Guantanamo, Khadr remains a testament to the fact this Harper Conservative government won’t extend the same rights to all Canadians by bringing Khadr back to Canada. What are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

waldo, when Khadr was sent to Guantanamo in 2002 he was 15 years old. The Liberals were in government at the time and for the first 2 years of Khadr's incarceration. If the Liberals truly believed Khadr was a child soldier why didn't they make more noise over his incarceration with other suspected terrorists? Could it be they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on and just let the matter unfold? How come they are so incensed now? I heard Sheila Copps on CTV screeching that Khadr is the only juvenile held in Guantanamo. In fact, Khadr ceased being a juvenile some years ago. She looked stupid and didn't help advance the Liberal argument whatsoever. Deny it all you want but it's obvious the Liberals are using Khadr as a political football. They really don't give a rat's ass about Khadr. Yet, I hope they continue to hammer the Conservatives over their handling of this file, especially during an election campaign. I am convinced they are turning a lot of Canadians off with their continual advocating to have him released from Guantanamo before the US is done with him.

[wulf42]

and you are obtuse to the point of boredom... the "defending" you rail on about is an assortment of MLW posters "defending" a fundamental principle of our justice system... that an accused is innocent until proven guilty. Your suggestion that some are defending "them", and are "defending" what "they" stand for, is simply your deluded paranoia and hate run rampant.

until the accused is tried and found guilty, he is no more guilty than yourself. The accused has not received his due process and a possible guilty sentencing outcome. You state with absolute certainty that the alleged crime(s) are fact... because the court of wulf42 has so decreed! Let the process proceed on Canadian soil, within the Canadian judiciary... what are you, and the Harper Conservatives, so afraid of?

Oh lets see! he was caught with Taliban and armed fighting Nato soldiers....what more guilt do you need????

Harper isn't hiding anything! What he is doing is his job trying to keep this garbage out of Canada,

and keep real Canadians safe! By saying you think this garbage should be brought back to Canada is nonsense!! why should he be brought back?? He was fighting Americans and was captured by American troops they should have drilled him on the spot!! In any event he is their problem not ours, who cares what happens to him? Canada has more important problems then what happens to this filth!

Maybe you should be more concerned about our own people who are starving on our own streets that

need help instead of worrying about what happens to an Al Qaeda member who was killing Nato troops!

Edited September 6, 2009 by wulf42

[wulf42]

waldo, when Khadr was sent to Guantanamo in 2002 he was 15 years old. The Liberals were in government at the time and for the first 2 years of Khadr's incarceration. If the Liberals truly believed Khadr was a child soldier why didn't they make more noise over his incarceration with other suspected terrorists? Could it be they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on and just let the matter unfold? How come they are so incensed now? I heard Sheila Copps on CTV screeching that Khadr is the only juvenile held in Guantanamo. In fact, Khadr ceased being a juvenile some years ago. She looked stupid and didn't help advance the Liberal argument whatsoever. Deny it all you want but it's obvious the Liberals are using Khadr as a political football. They really don't give a rat's ass about Khadr. Yet, I hope they continue to hammer the Conservatives over their handling of this file, especially during an election campaign. I am convinced they are turning a lot of Canadians off with their continual advocating to have him released from Guantanamo before the US is done with him.

The Liberals have lost credibility on so many levels....this Omar business is making many

Canadians sick! However the Liberals are costing themselves any hope of winning an election!

[wulf42]

I am not alone in not wanting this animal back, Many Canadians feel the same!!

his father was Al Qaeda why do we even let these people in Canada??

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/34140...iews_in_canada/

[waldo]

waldo, when Khadr was sent to Guantanamo in 2002 he was 15 years old. The Liberals were in government at the time and for the first 2 years of Khadr's incarceration. If the Liberals truly believed Khadr was a child soldier why didn't they make more noise over his incarceration with other suspected terrorists? Could it be they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on and just let the matter unfold?

Deny it all you want but it's obvious the Liberals are using Khadr as a political football. They really don't give a rat's ass about Khadr. Yet, I hope they continue to hammer the Conservatives over their handling of this file, especially during an election campaign. I am convinced they are turning a lot of Canadians off with their continual advocating to have him released from Guantanamo before the US is done with him.

the US Government has proven itself incapable of prosecuting Khadr since 2002… why should anyone have faith in the U.S. Government’s ability to bring the Khadr case to a conclusion on it’s own?

you speak of timelines, where those early years were overshadowed by 9/11 and U.S. Government secrecy… secrecy to the point the U.S. Congress/Committee leaders have charged they, themselves, were not properly/completely informed by the Bush administration of events at Quantanamo. I’ve read reports of redacted CSIS disclosures only coming to light in 2004. It’s the Harper Conservative government that’s been soundly rebuked by Canadian Courts, multiple times… it’s the Harper Conservative government that’s now appealing to the Supreme Court. It’s the Harper Conservative government that wears this Khardr case… on its own. And yes, it’s the Liberal Party calling for Khadr’s repatriation to Canada – to face due process within Canada. What are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

yes, some Canadians don’t agree with those advocating for Khadr’s repatriation to Canada… slightly more than the current Conservative polling numbers - per this recent Macleans poll – only 36% suggest Canada should not intervene on Khadr’s behalf.

perhaps some/more should accept the Canadian Bar Associations request to repatriate Khadr to Canada… the request made to and rejected by Stephen Harper:

The case for Mr. Khadr’s repatriation to Canada is plain. He was 15 years old when he was apprehended in Afghanistan. He has not been fully afforded the basic entitlements of due process under the Rule of Law, such as the right to counsel and the right to know the case against him, nor has he been afforded any process that takes into account his unique status as a minor. He has been detained in the general population of detainees in Guantanamo Bay, without any physical, psychological or educational services that would normally be afforded a minor under the terms of the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict.

Mr. Khadr has already spent six years in pre-trial custody. The U.S. has had ample opportunity to bring its processes into compliance with the tenets of the Rule of Law and its international obligations, and to try him.

Once Mr. Khadr is repatriated, it will be up to officials in the Canadian justice system to conduct an independent assessment of admissible evidence against him, to determine whether this evidence supports charges under Canadian law, and if so, whether he should be tried as an adult or a child. Because of the secrecy and allegations of torture that have plagued the U.S. proceedings to date, the best chance to fairly and openly assess Mr. Khardr’s criminal culpability may in fact be in Canadian proceedings.

What are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

[bush_cheney2004]

the US Government has proven itself incapable of prosecuting Khadr since 2002… why should anyone have faith in the U.S. Government’s ability to bring the Khadr case to a conclusion on it’s own?

Yet Canada can't even manage to repatriate him.....no reason to think he would fair any better there.

What are the Harper Conservatives afraid of?

"Harper Conservatives" only date back to February 2006.....I leave the Liberal math to you.

Edited September 6, 2009 by bush_cheney2004