Healthcare Reform, Town halls and mobs.

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

...So does this really benefit people at all when we are always blue or red? Can't we meet in the middle somewhere?

No.....Olbermann was a tool at ESPN and is even a bigger tool for MSNBC.

GostHacked · August 7, 2009

No.....Olbermann was a tool at ESPN and is even a bigger tool for MSNBC.

Well, tools are usefull.

jdobbin · August 7, 2009

You're a bigger fool than I thought if you believe that. The innocent"left" never does anything wrong. Americans are upset because they see their freedoms being taken away. Can't you guys come up with something original instead of blaming Rush Limbaugh for the public's discontent for the far-left?

Ah, there is is the abuse and insults we have come to expect from the frothy, hyperpartisan, right wing.

Can you think of something more original than the insults and general thuggery?

Look at how well the cash-4-clunkers program is going. The government thinks they are heroes for getting these gas guzzlers off the streets, paying for the program with tax payers money.

That is not what people are going into town hall meetings and threatening lives over.

And also the polls don't lie. Most Americans like their health care the way it is, and the results of those polls are being represented at these town hall meetings. Those are facts jdobbin. I know it hurts you to know that because lefties like you don't like to deal with facts.

I know you righties like to shout down people and generally insult people. Those are facts too.

Shady · August 8, 2009

From what I've read and seen today, most of the violence was the result of aggressive union thugs.

jdobbin · August 8, 2009

From what I've read and seen today, most of the violence was the result of aggressive union thugs.

Union activists have sent death threats to Democratic Congressmen?

Shady · August 8, 2009

Union activists have sent death threats to Democratic Congressmen?

No, to opponents of Obamacare.

Obama's SEIU Thugs Attack Black Conservative

tango · August 8, 2009

From what I've read and seen today, most of the violence was the result of aggressive union thugs.

Of course, the shoving was preceded by "free speech" by the 'astroturf disrupters', who always forget that my freedom of speech can shout you down.

Not condoning the shoving, but what was the dork doing getting in their faces?

Shady · August 8, 2009

Of course, the shoving was preceded by "free speech" by the 'astroturf disrupters', who always forget that my freedom of speech can shout you down.
Not condoning the shoving, but what was the dork doing getting in their faces?

The only 'astroturf disrupters' are the Obama union thugs shipped into these events now.

Sir Bandelot · August 8, 2009

David Gergen: "This is very discouraging to those who want to see democracy work."

It sure is, it sure is...

Shady · August 8, 2009

David Gergen: "This is very discouraging to those who want to see democracy work."
It sure is, it sure is...

Dissent is part of democracy. At least it was, until Obama was coronated in January.

Sir Bandelot · August 8, 2009

Democracy is your holy grail, not mine.

Sir Bandelot · August 8, 2009

No doubt that the people from these unruly mobs, are all Palin fanatics.

Palin brands Obama Health Plan as 'Evil'

:lol:

Shady · August 8, 2009

Democracy is your holy grail, not mine.

Well, you're the one who posted a quote deriding the healthcare dissent as an attack on democracy. Make up your mind. And this isn't about Sarah Palin. It's about Obama-backed astroturf union thugs, roughing up healthcare protestors.

BubberMiley · August 8, 2009

Speaking of Sarah Palin, I couldn't believe that she actually would send a twitter (which is the extent of her power now) saying that Obama's health care plan would involve bureaucrats dispensing mandatory euthanasia. What a bare-faced lie. I honestly thought she had more class than that.

Shady · August 8, 2009

Speaking of Sarah Palin, I couldn't believe that she actually would send a twitter (which is the extent of her power now) saying that Obama's health care plan would involve bureaucrats dispensing mandatory euthanasia. What a bare-faced lie. I honestly thought she had more class than that.

Again, it's not about that. It's about Obama-backed astroturf union thugs, roughing up healthcare protestors. I thought Obama had more class than that.

jdobbin · August 8, 2009

Speaking of Sarah Palin, I couldn't believe that she actually would send a twitter (which is the extent of her power now) saying that Obama's health care plan would involve bureaucrats dispensing mandatory euthanasia. What a bare-faced lie. I honestly thought she had more class than that.

She has this to say:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/...e2%80%99s-care/

"And who will suffer the most when they ration care?" she wrote. "The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

Sir Bandelot · August 9, 2009

Well, you're the one who posted a quote deriding the healthcare dissent as an attack on democracy. Make up your mind.

Theres no conflict in my statements. I'm saying, the way that these attacks by unruly mobs take place, exposes a weakness in democracy. As does the inflammatory political debate we are watching now. In the end nothing can be achieved, either way. Democracy only works when everyone is willing to play along, but there are clearly ways to undermine it and sabotage the entire democratic process- by use of the uneducated masses, easily manipulated by lies and half-truths, fear, and religion.

And this isn't about Sarah Palin. It's about Obama-backed astroturf union thugs, roughing up healthcare protestors.

She has stepped into the debate and is rallying her people, the nationalist quasi-religious rural conservative middle class. With the invocation of words like "evil", her involvement in this situation is quite clear. She raises abortion to the issue, and she even offers up images of her own child afflicted with downs syndrome as threatened by the reform plans. With her inflammatory statements, she is fueling those very flames of sabotage. Does that help bring it all together for you?

Shady · August 9, 2009

She has stepped into the debate and is rallying her people

The healthcare protests at town halls existed long before Sarah Palin stepped into the debate. And so what if she's "rallying her people?" Obama's rallying his people, and I don't hear the same complaints. Supporters of a former community organizer shouldn't be upset when other people organize their own communities. And it's pretty clear that when some people in this forum are losing their arguments, they feel the need to shift debate by ushering in the names of Palin and Bush. Nice try.

GostHacked · August 9, 2009

Again, it's not about that. It's about Obama-backed astroturf union thugs, roughing up healthcare protestors. I thought Obama had more class than that.

Only you could turn around the initial attack by GOP right wing sponsored mod distruptions and turn it back on the Dems themselves. The Dem mobs are a counter to the Rep mobs ..... please pay attention Shady.

Edited August 9, 2009 by GostHacked

bush_cheney2004 · August 9, 2009

Only you could turn around the initial attack by GOP right wing sponsored mod distruptions and turn it back on the Dems themselves. The Dem mobs are a counter to the Rep mobs ..... please pay attention Shady.

Nope...ACORN "mobs" already existed long before that. You pay attention......

GostHacked · August 9, 2009

Nope...ACORN "mobs" already existed long before that. You pay attention......

Sure we can talk about that as well. And as I keep saying BOTH sides are playing the rest of us for fools.

And it is working.

bush_cheney2004 · August 9, 2009

Sure we can talk about that as well. And as I keep saying BOTH sides are playing the rest of us for fools.
And it is working.

What do you mean by "us" ? Why do you care either way?

Sir Bandelot · August 9, 2009

The healthcare protests at town halls existed long before Sarah Palin stepped into the debate. And so what if she's "rallying her people?" Obama's rallying his people, and I don't hear the same complaints. Supporters of a former community organizer shouldn't be upset when other people organize their own communities. And it's pretty clear that when some people in this forum are losing their arguments, they feel the need to shift debate by ushering in the names of Palin and Bush. Nice try.

It does not particularly matter to me that this statement came from Palin. If it were said by any other politician I would highlight it in just the same way. I do not suffer from Palin-mania. I have criticized Bush's ideas, I criticize hers, and Obamas, or any politician who says something I disagree with.

She is entitiled to have her say, in a democracy. And she is entitled to be criticized, and to pay the price if she says something stupid. Which unfortunately for her is now part of her record. It's too bad because, sadly she poses more of a threat to Republicans than to Democrats. Obama does not use words like "evil" to describe his political opponents ideas, nor raise images of his children being euthenaized by shadowy state beaurocrats. Organizing community rallies is not the same as incensing the public with baloney about eithenasia of the handicapped.

But hey, let them all eat out their own guts... my main criticism was and is that this is an example of the kind of counter-productive abuse of media and free speech. Democracy is too liberal in allowing such a level of debate. Too many nut jobs can get on the podium and have their five minute sound bite. It shows how it's easy to create distractions and destroy the process of rational discussion and decision making. By mere use of ignorance...