jbg Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 poor analogies aside; israel is breaking the law with their illegal settlements, which cannot be claimed to be a measure of self-defense.So why didn't the Arab confrontation states in the Six-Day War negotiate for the return of their lost territory before it was loaded with settlers? Frankly, what surprises me is that Israel didn't expel the population and fill the land with its own people. Sort of like what happened throughout Europe's interminable post-Roman Empire collapse wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 So why didn't the Arab confrontation states in the Six-Day War negotiate for the return of their lost territory before it was loaded with settlers? Frankly, what surprises me is that Israel didn't expel the population and fill the land with its own people. Sort of like what happened throughout Europe's interminable post-Roman Empire collapse wars. Israel was playing too nice, and now they are paying for it. You know the old saying, no good deed goes unpunished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 So why didn't the Arab confrontation states in the Six-Day War negotiate for the return of their lost territory before it was loaded with settlers? Frankly, what surprises me is that Israel didn't expel the population and fill the land with its own people. Sort of like what happened throughout Europe's interminable post-Roman Empire collapse wars. or Islamic conquests following the crusades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 In some cases you can. Border outposts are extremely useful for surveillance, checkpoints and buffers. to me, it sounds like you're making excuses. have you seen the settlements in the west bank? don't make excuses please. enough people here make excuses. the settlements are not there for self-defense. do you agree with the internationally recognized illegal settlements or not? do you think it's okay that they're there or not? The 'punishments' are not directed at palestinian civilians and it's foolish to indicate as such. They're directed at militants (Hamas etc) that insist on launching attacks from WITHIN civilian populations. When retaliatory attacks end up hitting civilians, the vast majority of the time it's because of Hamas' use of human shields. The civilians have Hamas to blame, and themselves. Hamas for hiding behind them, and the Palestinians at large for doing nothing to curb their militants. there were several human rights organizations, 7 of them from israel, who have accused israel of war crimes. a 100+ report was put out by Amnesty International after an investigation and it concluded that israel committed war crimes. unless you've done some kind of investigation after the recent gaza attack, then your opinion is trumped by the human rights organizations reports and conclusions. International law is a subject generally open to interpretations. The land itself has no real and rightful sovereign owner, and it hasn't for almost 100 years. see, it's comments like these that leads me to believe that you're here to make excuses and apologizes for someone who violates international law. there are numerous UN resolutions that have stated that israel has violated international law. there is no open interpretation to the clear resolutions. Two wrongs don't make right but the hypocrisy is galling when people focus exclusively on Israel's violation and ignore that they ARE INDEED being attacked and the other side is committing widespread violations themselves. i don't think anyone here and anyone who respects and accepts international law disputes that suicide attacks that happened before and the rocket attacks that has been happening recently are wrong. however, for some reason, there are some here who try to apologize for and try to justify already recognized illegal actions by israel, such as the illegal settlements, land annexation both in the west bank and east jerusalem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 ....however, for some reason, there are some here who try to apologize for and try to justify already recognized illegal actions by israel, such as the illegal settlements, land annexation both in the west bank and east jerusalem. How many people are killed by an "illegal settlement" or "land annexation" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 How many people are killed by an "illegal settlement" or "land annexation" ? North America had about 75 million inhabitants prior to the "illegal settlement" - we have been John Wayned to death in these regards..given the impression that maybe there were a few thousand Indians doing not a whole lot - and so what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 How many people are killed by an "illegal settlement" or "land annexation" ? what's the point you're trying to make here, papa bear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 what's the point you're trying to make here, papa bear? The point is obvious......baby bear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 North America had about 75 million inhabitants prior to the "illegal settlement" - we have been John Wayned to death in these regards..given the impression that maybe there were a few thousand Indians doing not a whole lot - and so what. "We" did it anyway....regardless of the number. Wanna go back to Russia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 "We" did it anyway....regardless of the number. Wanna go back to Russia? I was never in Russia - my egg and sperm carrying father and mother were _ I was born in Britain... as far as loyalty to Russia - I like them as much as I like the Germans - I don't! Creepy bunch. So how about sending you back to Poland on a diplomatic mission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 The point is obvious......baby bear. what's the point? only if we kill people then it's illegal? taking away their land and keeping them in an open air prison is A-OKAY? consult with international law. the very same law that created the state israel 60 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 what's the point?only if we kill people then it's illegal? taking away their land and keeping them in an open air prison is A-OKAY? consult with international law. the very same law that created the state israel 60 years ago. Hear hear! Hate is the lazy mans love. Even Christ said " I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill each and every last letter and stroke of the law" Christ clashed with the Roman Empire, not because he was a crimminal - but because the empire had slid into institutional crimminality - history repeats itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I was never in Russia - my egg and sperm carrying father and mother were _ I was born in Britain... as far as loyalty to Russia - I like them as much as I like the Germans - I don't! Creepy bunch. So how about sending you back to Poland on a diplomatic mission? Nobody is going anywhere, and especially not to satisfy someone's stupid ideas about what is "fair". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 The point is obvious......baby bear. Is it just moi...or is dub starting to lose it in the corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Is it just moi...or is dub starting to lose it in the corners? They all do sooner or later.....it just eats them up inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 North America had about 75 million inhabitants prior to the "illegal settlement" - we have been John Wayned to death in these regards..given the impression that maybe there were a few thousand Indians doing not a whole lot - and so what. Smallpox, measles, influenza, diptheria, typhoid did the job, not attacks by settlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 QUOTE=Oleg Bach: North America had about 75 million inhabitants prior to the "illegal settlement" - we have been John Wayned to death in these regards..given the impression that maybe there were a few thousand Indians doing not a whole lot - and so what.Smallpox, measles, influenza, diptheria, typhoid did the job, not attacks by settlers. One important cause of Native American depopulation during European contact was epidemic disease. BUT.... It is important to note, however, that these epidemics were just some of the causes of population decline during European contact. Intermarriage, slavery, wars, massacres, political disruption, economic changes, malnutrition, destruction of traditional subsistence patterns, and alcoholism also changed the composition of many Native American groups, whether they favored the changes or fought them. Eventually, these changes caused substantial depopulation and cultural change. link You cannot downplay the effects the settlers had on the decline of the population of Native Americans, and I'm quite frankly surprised to see you attempting to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 You cannot downplay the effects the settlers had on the decline of the population of Native Americans, and I'm quite frankly surprised to see you attempting to do so.Frankly I had forgotten about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest harrycole Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I think Israel would love to live in peace, but hasn't been allowed to by it's neighbors. They've certainly born a heavy burden in attacks by both neighbor nations and terrorists -- probably more so than any other nation in the world. As peaceful as I think they would like to be, WWII put an end to any "turn the other cheek" sentiments. They will no longer allow themselves to be attacked and killed without a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 You cannot downplay the effects the settlers had on the decline of the population of Native Americans, and I'm quite frankly surprised to see you attempting to do so. Don't be surprised. In a lot of areas diseases like smallpox wiped out over 60% of the Native populations The population of North American Natives was, at best, sparse. Most scholars suggest pre-settlement populations of all of North and South America COMBINED of between 40-120 million. The vast majority of these people (like 80+%) lived in Mexico and South America. I can't even try and pretend that Native Americans weren't mistreated by European settlers, but at the same time you had miniscule populations bogarting some of the largest habitable land masses in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 As peaceful as I think they would like to be, WWII put an end to any "turn the other cheek" sentiments. They will no longer allow themselves to be attacked and killed without a fight.Spot on."World opinion" was not of much help for the Jews during WW II nor is it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I think Israel would love to live in peace, but hasn't been allowed to by it's neighbors. They've certainly born a heavy burden in attacks by both neighbor nations and terrorists -- probably more so than any other nation in the world.As peaceful as I think they would like to be, WWII put an end to any "turn the other cheek" sentiments. They will no longer allow themselves to be attacked and killed without a fight. you're posting misinformation. as a whole, the jews have not been the victims in the middle east. the jews have been the aggressors. i mean, you can babble all you want, but look at the situation today. who has the state? who has the guns? who is racking up the kill points? who is gaining land illegally? what the europeans did to the jews is no fault of the palestinians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 you're posting misinformation. No he's posting opinions and conjectures. He's not stating anything as fact. You're just getting all bent out over what he thinks. as a whole, the jews have not been the victims in the middle east. the jews have been the aggressors. i mean, you can babble all you want, but look at the situation today. who has the state? who has the guns? who is racking up the kill points? who is gaining land illegally? Ah...it's a classic case of 'might makes wrong'. The fact that the Israelis won the last couple of wars (which they did not start) means they're obviously the belligerent party here. what the europeans did to the jews is no fault of the palestinians. No, but similarly you can't hate on the Jews for their parents being given back their ancient homeland after thousands of years of persecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 you're posting misinformation.what the europeans did to the jews is no fault of the palestinians. Except their leader, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, was a general in the SS and one of Hitler's inner circle...part of the Final Solution in the Balkans. Other than that...no...no fault at all. dub: I'm posting misinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.