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Canadians want Kiss


jdobbin

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http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...rcC1_UebwBP-afg

The classic rock band is asking North American fans to vote online for which cities they should hit for their next tour.

The top four cities so far are Canadian, as are eight of the top 10.

Winnipeg has the most votes, followed by Kingston, Ont., Oshawa, Ont., Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa, Edmonton and Saskatoon.

A rather embarrassing development.

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Poshawa? Osh Vegas? The Shwiggity? The 'schwa? Don't we have enough issues? Keep KISS out!!!!!

I always suspected you guys were ABBA fans! ;)

Either that or you think that listening to that "Easy Jazz" station shows you like your music really 'heavy'! :P

While the rest of us are listening to Kiss you guys can 'get down' with Celine Dion.

Edited by Wild Bill
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You consider KISS "heavy?" I can recall them next to Shaun Cassidy in 16 magazine back in the 1970s. :lol:

Only by comparison to Celine Dion! :lol: Then again, even Shaun Cassidy would have been 'heavy' compared to Celine Dion! I was a big KISS fan until Gene Simmonds got too greedy. Once I started seeing KISS lunchpails and even toothbrushes (teethbreesh?) they became a kiddy band in my mind and no 'cool' teenager could admit he still liked them!

Still, I'd take KISS over most of the manufactured record label driven pap that is out today. I have a very simple benchmark. If I can play it it must be crap! ;)

Edited by Wild Bill
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A rather embarrassing development.

Canada is apparently full of old-people who still think they can "Rock and Roll All Night and Party Every Day."

Should be quite a scene. Imagine all those original 1977 vintage KISS t-shirts stretched to breaking across beer-guts.

-k

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I'm the farthest thing from a Kiss fan, and I think Gene Simmons is a bastard, but Abba and Celine Dion? :blink:

Well maybe not Celine...

If I change your mind, She's the first in line

Honey I'm still free

She'll take a chance on me...

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  • 2 months later...
While the rest of us are listening to Kiss you guys can 'get down' with Celine Dion.

Sorry Bill but not all of us old guys were Into Kiss or any other variation of that cheap glam heavy rock rip off style that they pionered.

I saw Yes for their Tormato tour, the final one before they split up, I saw Queen for their Jazz and News Of The World tours, Jethro Tull for their Stormwatch tour, Peter Gabriel Secret World and before that PG Security.

These are just a few of the great bands I've seen, If Kiss ever even got to play at any of these concerts they'd be very minor players. The old Max Webster with Kim would have not only blown them off the stage but out the front door.

When you've seen the likes of ELP, the Moody Blues and the most important of all...Clapton, its hard to take Kiss seriously, the predecessors of Honeymoon Suit that they are.

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When you've seen the likes of ELP, the Moody Blues and the most important of all...Clapton, its hard to take Kiss seriously, the predecessors of Honeymoon Suit that they are.

Oh you guys are so old. Or maybe not old enough, to appreciate Kiss. I liked them as a kid. Subsequently I listened to many other forms of music, and saw great concerts too, by ELP, Yes, Genesis as well as many great jazz acts. Now I am a jazz musician myself.

Still, if I listen to Kiss now I can hear what I liked about it. Forgetting about their costumes, which really pioneered theatrics and Goth makeup, and demonic metal music, the songs were tight, economical and professionally engineered. Bob Ezrin produced some of their albums and also produce for Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel and many others. What drew me most as a kid was Ace Frehleys guitar playing, and I became a guitarist later in life. Frehley used simple scales but did it effectively, and he pioneered the use of Hammer-ons long before Eddie Van Halen.

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Whatever KISS's merits might have been back in their day, the idea of them still doing the same thing 30 years later is very said. 60 year old men strutting around in leather jackets and makeup and singing about getting tail is pretty pathetic.

The only thing sadder than that is the Beach Boys still trying to be surfer-dudes.

-k

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Whatever KISS's merits might have been back in their day, the idea of them still doing the same thing 30 years later is very said. 60 year old men strutting around in leather jackets and makeup and singing about getting tail is pretty pathetic.

The only thing sadder than that is the Beach Boys still trying to be surfer-dudes.

-k

Ah Kimmy, we may look ridiculous but have a heart. We're starved for what we like!

To someone with the late 60's to the early 70's as their formative years, modern rock can really suck! It's not just the natural urge for 'the old folks' to not like 'youngster' music. Most modern pop is totally a formula product. The emphasis is on the appearance of the artist and not the music. Just drag out a new 16 year old pole dancer and dress her in some new fashions! Don't worry if she can sing. The studio has the technology to make a frog sound good! She's always gonna lip-synch, anyway. You won't get caught!

After she's had a 2-3 year run you can dump her for a new one. That way the studio will always have a new contract with an unknown, so that they can command most of the profits.

The so-called 'indy rock' scene is a little better but not much. The problem is that there is no real entry path into the industry anymore. When we were kids there was a strong 'cover band' scene. New artists could actually eke out a living. In the early 70's I worked for a band and we went on province wide tours for months at a time, doing 3 and 6 nighters in every small town around.

Those days are long gone! For whatever reason, kids today are lucky to get even a Saturday night gig! Often they may only get one unpaid set, playing with other bands! We were a C level band and we got paid $2400 for a 6 night gig, back when gas was $0.25 per GALLON and a pack of cigarettes was maybe the same.

Today that one Saturday night might pay $200, to be split amongst the band. Believe me, NO ONE makes a living at it!

So that means that new artists never get the opportunity to play for long periods of time. Months on the road can make you a very good musician.

The occasional basement or garage session just can't cut it.

When I sample modern rock I have a very simple yardstick. If I can play it then it must be crap!

So of necessity the musicianship level has gone done. This means a lack of great guitar playing and usually (but not always!) a lack of good song structure.

If I want to hear what I like, there's precious little available in new music today. So I hole up with my vinyl, listening to Pat Travers and Frank Marino of Mahogany Rush.

And yes, even Kiss, for want of anything better!

Even with the softer stuff, nostalgia rules for we Boomers. Compare Carole King's Tapestry with Alannis Morrisette.

Thank heavens for Great Big Sea! And the Rankins!

The thing about being a Boomer is that as a marketing demographic if you don't like it you refuse to buy it! Record label companies haven't cared because they successfully manipulated the modern market, dumbing down the kids so they would accept their pablum.

Until now, that is. The labels are in serious danger of dying out like dinosaurs, due to digital downloading and the like. Many new artists have embraced the new business paradigm of self-production. They sell their own CDs along with their tshirts from the side of the stage, making 90% of the profit. They would sell more numbers through a record label but they would only get pennies from the sale of each CD.

In fact, who buys CDs anymore? There is an entire generation that buys only digital. They've never even touched a CD, let alone bought one!

That's why the biggest music retailer in America, Tower Records, went bankrupt. Along with a lot of others.

There are still HUGE numbers of old guys that play! They account for at least half of my customers. I make my living building and repairing guitar amplifiers. So I get a bit of a deeper perspective than some folks. They don't play out professionally anymore. They just get together with their friends for the fun of it.

What warms my heart is when some 15 year old comes into my shop and I hear him play all the old classic rock riffs. When I ask him why he's into the music of geezers like me the answer is always the same. "There's nothing good today if you want to play great guitar!" To see that there's still some new blood out there makes me feel better.

So cut us some slack, Kimmy! Maybe we do have beer guts and don't look as good as Roger Daltry in his prime. What would you have us do? Give up on music altogether?

Or worse yet, start liking 'lounge lizards' that USED to rock, like Rod Stewart?

I think I'd lie down and die, first! ;)

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Kiss still rocks. They put on one of the best shows of any band that has ever toured. When concert tickets cost what they do now, I damn sure want some theatrics and a kickass stage show. I've seen Kiss several times and would glady pony up for tickets, and take my kids to see what a real rock show is all about. The only bands I would consider even in the same leauge as KISS as far as a live show goes are AC/DC and Iron Maiden.

Wild Bill, I think you should reconsider what makes a band crap. Some of the greatest songs of all time are simple 3 chord jams, that anyone can pick up a guitar and play. One of the first songs I earned to play was "Cold Gin", by KISS. I'd agree that most of the new bands ARE crap, but there are still some great ones making great easy to play, fun to sing along with songs. Some of my favorite "new" bands are weezer, nickleback, and Nirvana(not new, but great). Also some of the easiest bands to play, like the Ramones have put out some of the greatest songs of all time like "Blitzkrieg Bop", and "I wanna be sedated".

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60 year old men strutting around in leather jackets and makeup and singing about getting tail is pretty pathetic.

Sure... like Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, The Who, Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, David Bowie, Metallica (not 60 but getting there...)

These bands are still playing, to huge audiences.

What is sad is that there are no up and coming young artists who can fill their shoes. The state of todays "pop" scene is just a bunch of hollywood assembled boy bands, most of whom couldn't hold their ass up in a concert. Sure there are some who have potential, but its just not a happening scene. And I'm a keen listener to whats going on, in all genres. I listen to what the kids are listening to.

My own kids who are teenagers all know the music of the old geezer rockers, play their tunes regularly on their i-pods, and want to go to Kiss and Metallica concerts.

Metallica in Ottawa this fall, I am booked as chauffeur.

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Kiss still rocks. They put on one of the best shows of any band that has ever toured.

Thats a pretty bold statement, especially when you consider bands like Queen, Jethro Tull and Yes, who all put on absolutely superb shows and actually had first class musicians in the bands. Sorry, no Ramones song has ever or will ever compare to the likes of Zeppelin and Queen.

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Sure... like Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, The Who, Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, David Bowie, Metallica (not 60 but getting there...)

These bands are still playing, to huge audiences.

With the exception of the Stones, none of those acts are (or ever were) singing about partying like high-school kids. As for the Stones, my comments re:KISS apply. Ditto Aerosmith and Van Halen. Maybe the 4 of them can get together and do a "Still in highschool after 52 years!" tour.

What is sad is that there are no up and coming young artists who can fill their shoes. The state of todays "pop" scene is just a bunch of hollywood assembled boy bands, most of whom couldn't hold their ass up in a concert. Sure there are some who have potential, but its just not a happening scene. And I'm a keen listener to whats going on, in all genres. I listen to what the kids are listening to.

I always do one of these: :rolleyes: when old-people tell me that they're up on the music the kids are listening to nowadays, and proceed to discuss boy-bands and Britney Spears as if that's the sum total of the music industry.

To someone with the late 60's to the early 70's as their formative years, modern rock can really suck! It's not just the natural urge for 'the old folks' to not like 'youngster' music. Most modern pop is totally a formula product. The emphasis is on the appearance of the artist and not the music. Just drag out a new 16 year old pole dancer and dress her in some new fashions! Don't worry if she can sing. The studio has the technology to make a frog sound good! She's always gonna lip-synch, anyway. You won't get caught!

After she's had a 2-3 year run you can dump her for a new one. That way the studio will always have a new contract with an unknown, so that they can command most of the profits.

Ditto the above comment.

Another thing I notice about old-people is how selective their memory becomes. They can remember the Claptons and Zepplins, but forget how much dog-shit there was that came along with it. Visit one of those websites that'll spit out the top 20 record chart for any week in history, and look up what was actually popular, and I guarantee that most of it is crap that you'd forgotten.

You remember the Claptons and Zepplins and conveniently forget Frankie Avalon and the Archies and the Monkees and Fabian and that 99% of the 1970s was so bad that it was erased from the public consciousness by 1981.

Even with the softer stuff, nostalgia rules for we Boomers. Compare Carole King's Tapestry with Alannis Morrisette.

Personally I'd rather jab my eardrums with knitting needles than listen to Carole King, but that's just me. I feel the same about Janis Joplin, btw. Stoned Chick Yelling.

The thing about being a Boomer is that as a marketing demographic if you don't like it you refuse to buy it! Record label companies haven't cared because they successfully manipulated the modern market, dumbing down the kids so they would accept their pablum.

And what's "pablum" to you? If "pablum" means inoffensive, unchallenging, and formulaic ...then "pablum" has been the staple of the music industry for longer than you or I have been alive.

If "pablum" means just plain dumb, then "I Wanna Rock And Roll All Night And Party Every Day!" is the king of pablum.

Until now, that is. The labels are in serious danger of dying out like dinosaurs, due to digital downloading and the like. Many new artists have embraced the new business paradigm of self-production. They sell their own CDs along with their tshirts from the side of the stage, making 90% of the profit. They would sell more numbers through a record label but they would only get pennies from the sale of each CD.

Personally, I think digital media is the greatest promotional tool for bands that has come along since forever.

I can hear new music on Youtube, internet radio, illegal downloads, or in video games, and if I like it, I buy it.

When broadcast radio was the only way I heard new music, I never bought anything. At the time, commercial radio wasn't playing anything that was remotely interesting to me, and as a result, I wasn't buying anything. Now I have access to an infinite variety.

And the arrival of more radio stations that don't follow "top 40" formats has improved the variety there, as well.

In fact, who buys CDs anymore? There is an entire generation that buys only digital. They've never even touched a CD, let alone bought one!

I've bought far more CDs since I've been downloading music than I did before I started.

-k

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Another thing I notice about old-people is how selective their memory becomes. They can remember the Claptons and Zepplins, but forget how much dog-shit there was that came along with it. Visit one of those websites that'll spit out the top 20 record chart for any week in history, and look up what was actually popular, and I guarantee that most of it is crap that you'd forgotten.

You remember the Claptons and Zepplins and conveniently forget Frankie Avalon and the Archies and the Monkees and Fabian and that 99% of the 1970s was so bad that it was erased from the public consciousness by 1981.

And what's "pablum" to you? If "pablum" means inoffensive, unchallenging, and formulaic ...then "pablum" has been the staple of the music industry for longer than you or I have been alive.

If "pablum" means just plain dumb, then "I Wanna Rock And Roll All Night And Party Every Day!" is the king of pablum.

Personally, I think digital media is the greatest promotional tool for bands that has come along since forever.

I can hear new music on Youtube, internet radio, illegal downloads, or in video games, and if I like it, I buy it.

When broadcast radio was the only way I heard new music, I never bought anything. At the time, commercial radio wasn't playing anything that was remotely interesting to me, and as a result, I wasn't buying anything. Now I have access to an infinite variety.

And the arrival of more radio stations that don't follow "top 40" formats has improved the variety there, as well.

I've bought far more CDs since I've been downloading music than I did before I started.

-k

Top 40 format? That's my point! Nobody I knew back then listened to Top40! That was AM radio. I stopped listening to that when I was 13. Everything was FM. We listened to album cuts and entire album sides. I don't think I ever actually heard an Archies song. We listened not just to Zepp and Queen but Poco, Quicksilver Messenger Service, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Blind Faith, early Genesis before they let that drummer sing the disco crap, Fairport Convention, Traffic, Perth County Conspiracy and SO much more!

Most of the drek was on AM radio. The only kids I knew that listened to it were from the 'Rod and Tod Flanders' church youth brigade.

If you're buying CD's, you don't have as much company as you used to.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm just pointing out that there are still a lot of us old hippies that can't find much in new music that appeals to us, for a variety of reasons. We can't find much on the radio, either. Today's 'Classic Rock' stations are really 'Classic AM Rock'. Stations don't have 'numbers' for my demographic 'cuz with FM radio at the time nobody logged numbers! They were all too stoned! So today they use AM radio numbers to create their playlists and wonder why they don't attract the boomer demographic as well as they thought they would.

The music of the 70's wasn't "erased from public consciousness by 1981". It was deliberately censored by Nancy Reagan and Ned Flanders! :P It was the music of the politically active generation, that was against the Viet Nam war, Nixon and eventually helped to bring down the Berlin Wall. It was tied in with marijuana, psychedelia and the concepts of personal awareness and freedom. My generation may have been clumsy about its totems from time to time but I'll stack it up anytime against what we see today, with the youth fixations on money and fashion, apathy towards politics and the example of 'Nickelback' as good rock and roll!

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Top 40 format? That's my point! Nobody I knew back then listened to Top40! That was AM radio. I stopped listening to that when I was 13. Everything was FM. We listened to album cuts and entire album sides. I don't think I ever actually heard an Archies song. We listened not just to Zepp and Queen but Poco, Quicksilver Messenger Service, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Blind Faith, early Genesis before they let that drummer sing the disco crap, Fairport Convention, Traffic, Perth County Conspiracy and SO much more!

You want to contrast today's mass-market music with a handful of hand-picked artists that you and your hip buddies listened to? That's an apples and oranges comparison.

You want to look at the mass-market music of today to show how the '70s were so much better? Let's compare apples with apples and look at the mass-market music of the 1970s.

You want to make the claim that the music of today has been "dumbed down"... I argue that the music of your day was just as dumb, and probably dumber. I present the following case:

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1970YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1971YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1972YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1973YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1974YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1975YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1976YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1977YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1978YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1979YESP.html

I didn't think they could stack shit that high, but there it is: the 1000 biggest songs of the 1970s... and probably 950 of them are so bad that they're only suitable for the soundtrack of a Will Ferrell period-comedy, or so forgettable that they haven't been played in years and haven't even been missed.

There's your musical golden age, Bill.

The music of the 70's wasn't "erased from public consciousness by 1981". It was deliberately censored by Nancy Reagan and Ned Flanders! :P

I think the above list proves that most of it has been forgotten because it sucked.

It was the music of the politically active generation, that was against the Viet Nam war, Nixon and eventually helped to bring down the Berlin Wall. It was tied in with marijuana, psychedelia and the concepts of personal awareness and freedom.

So... would you say it was "Muskrat Love" that brought down the Berlin Wall? Or would you say it was more "Disco Duck"?

My generation may have been clumsy about its totems from time to time but I'll stack it up anytime against what we see today, with the youth fixations on money and fashion, apathy towards politics and the example of 'Nickelback' as good rock and roll!

You look at the music industry today and just see a bunch of commercialized crap.

I look at the lists of what people were actually listening to in the 1970s, and just see a bunch of commercialized crap too.

-k

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You want to contrast today's mass-market music with a handful of hand-picked artists that you and your hip buddies listened to? That's an apples and oranges comparison.

You want to look at the mass-market music of today to show how the '70s were so much better? Let's compare apples with apples and look at the mass-market music of the 1970s.

You want to make the claim that the music of today has been "dumbed down"... I argue that the music of your day was just as dumb, and probably dumber. I present the following case:

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1970YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1971YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1972YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1973YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1974YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1975YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1976YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1977YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1978YESP.html

http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/70s_files/1979YESP.html

I didn't think they could stack shit that high, but there it is: the 1000 biggest songs of the 1970s... and probably 950 of them are so bad that they're only suitable for the soundtrack of a Will Ferrell period-comedy, or so forgettable that they haven't been played in years and haven't even been missed.

There's your musical golden age, Bill.

I think the above list proves that most of it has been forgotten because it sucked.

So... would you say it was "Muskrat Love" that brought down the Berlin Wall? Or would you say it was more "Disco Duck"?

You look at the music industry today and just see a bunch of commercialized crap.

I look at the lists of what people were actually listening to in the 1970s, and just see a bunch of commercialized crap too.

-k

Ah, Kimmy! Again, we seem to come from different worlds. Your list is irrelevant to me, because I literally never knew anyone who listened to it for the majority of their music!

It wasn't just me and a few hip friends. The sales of the artists I listened to were HUGE! They just never had AM radio hits. Frankly, they would have been ashamed if they did!

It seems that not only did those of us back then fall into two different camps of what music we enjoyed, the two groups did not associate much with each other, either!

I have no problem agreeing with you that your 70's list is mostly crap. I just refuse to believe that the majority of my generation listened to it! Considering the numbers of us as the result of the Baby Boom, that still leaves huge markets on both sides.

So you never listened to Traffic or SteelEye Spam. I never listened to Tommy James and the Shondells. You weren't a Frank Zappa fan. I never cared for Bobby Sherman.

Chaque a son gout! :P

Edited by Wild Bill
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Theres all kinds of music, in every era. There's always mainstream commercially produced crap. Let each person enjoy what they want. But if we are to make any kind of assessment of the validity of musical forms. we need to agree on what makes it "good". Some might say, artistic innovation, as in the creation of new sounds, new rhythms, harmonies, or what have you. An example is the jazz era, people like Miles Davis. And there's clear reasons why I pick his name amongst the others. Another way of measuring "good" is the musical virtuosity of a player. Example Charlie Parker, or a rock guitarist like Van Halen. Is there another indicator? Probably. Michael Jackson sure is popular. I think it stems partly from his image but also from the grooves he wrote, the danceable rhythms, the melodies.

Using those criteria I don't know who I can point to in todays scene and say "there it is". But I'd love to hear about it. There is no point in criticizing what people like. Everybody likes what they like, and don't like what they don't like.

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