Scientists urge PM to restore research funds

[noahbody]

The problem is that Harper cuts programs that politically offend him rather than simply go department by department and telling them to hold the line and reduce spending.

That's how you'd like to spin it. A truer statement would be that the opposition has been opposing practical cuts because they can spin them for political advantage. Or is Holy F**K a necessity?

As far as science funding goes, there are areas in science such as stem cell research in which I believe we should put more funding. I would cut funding to the Holy F**K's of the science world to accomplish this any day.

It is exasperating to have the Tories say they won't fund art because it isn't commercially successful and them complain that they don't want to fund art when it is commercially successful because there is no need.

I would agree they shouldn't fund art that has limited public appeal. Fund the talented; not the second rate.

Some on the right are opposed to it now

Are you suggesting everyone on the left supports it? You use that tactic often. It's a little dishonest IMO.

but the evidence is that when Canadian content was not supported, there was a definite lack of it in many aspects of Canadian life.

There has never been a lack of Holy F**K.

The cuts were a pattern that showed political intent. The Tories did not like Status of Women and some of the programs so they target them politically rather than subject the program to an audit for effectiveness.

By cutting health care funding to the West, the Liberals were trying to kill off all those who would not bow down to them. (I can spin just like you.)

You think that the annual costs of the gun registry come close to restoring the cuts?

I think anything science related that is as useless as the gun registry should be scrapped and the money should go to fund something worthwhile. The thing about funding useless initiatives is that it takes funding away from worthwhile ones. That's my rub.

I know Tories pretend that the costs are a billion a year annually but you know that it isn't true.

The annual cost is $25 million, slightly over $2 million per homicide with a registered long gun. That's a waste.

Maybe we should ask the police what they like and see if the right wing wants to really be on the other side of that issue.

The fact that there are police associations that speak out against the gun registry speaks volumes. As far as the CACP endorsement goes, they also support mandatory sentences. We'll have to see if the left wing wants to be on their side on that issue.

[bush_cheney2004]

The U.S. has already lost its leadership role in stem cell research to Europe, when the top scientists left for Europe when Bush pulled the funding from new stem cell lines three years ago, just as they lost their primacy in experimental physics to CERN, when the Superconducting Supercollider project in Texas was scrapped back in the 90's. Looks like one more reason to get Harper out of office before he has a chance to imitate any more failed Bush policies!

Yes, because we don't want Canada to lose primacy in these or any other areas of research where it dominates the world.

[jdobbin]

That's how you'd like to spin it. A truer statement would be that the opposition has been opposing practical cuts because they can spin them for political advantage. Or is Holy F**K a necessity?

I think the Tories want to pick and choose individually who they want to support for various political reasons. And that is not how I want to spin it. It is how the Tories do it. It is how the justify killing programs. It is based on what they don't like.

As far as science funding goes, there are areas in science such as stem cell research in which I believe we should put more funding. I would cut funding to the Holy F**K's of the science world to accomplish this any day.

There are plenty on the right who want to cut science for the very fact that they want to research in stem cells.

I would agree they shouldn't fund art that has limited public appeal. Fund the talented; not the second rate.

But how does one determine that? A minister sits at a desk and says Croneberg is a schlocky director in his 20s but an auteur in his 50s. Let's make sure we kill that learning curve.

Are you suggesting everyone on the left supports it? You use that tactic often. It's a little dishonest IMO.

I haven't suggested anything. I am simply saying that some on the right want to CRTC killed and Canadian content killed. It is hard to know what Conservative support is for the media because they don't articulate it.

There has never been a lack of Holy F**K.

They certainly seem to get under your skin. People used to think the Rolling Stones were evil. Some still do.

I have no idea if this group is good or not. You know them well? Or are you just offended by the name?

By cutting health care funding to the West, the Liberals were trying to kill off all those who would not bow down to them. (I can spin just like you.)

It was your government that killed healthcare since it is controlled by the provinces. Many provinces took the opportunity to cut taxes rather than fund healthcare.

I think anything science related that is as useless as the gun registry should be scrapped and the money should go to fund something worthwhile. The thing about funding useless initiatives is that it takes funding away from worthwhile ones. That's my rub.

I have no idea what scientists would say. I do know that what the police are saying and it seems the Conservatives are against the police.

The annual cost is $25 million, slightly over $2 million per homicide with a registered long gun. That's a waste.

Tell that to the police.

Here is what the police association says.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/614124

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police maintains that weakening any of our nation's gun controls, including the long-gun registry, would "seriously compromise" safety. The chiefs also challenged Van Loan's assertion that rifles and shotguns are not weapons of choice for criminals. On the contrary, said the chiefs, they are "the weapons most often used in domestic homicides."

The Conservatives will hurt safety according to the police if they strike down the law.

The fact that there are police associations that speak out against the gun registry speaks volumes. As far as the CACP endorsement goes, they also support mandatory sentences. We'll have to see if the left wing wants to be on their side on that issue.

The Liberals supported mandatory sentences. When will the Tories support the registry?

[Smallc]

Yes, because we don't want Canada to lose primacy in these or any other areas of research where it dominates the world.

Yes, like HIV for example....or cancer...

Edited April 20, 2009 by Smallc

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, like HIV for example....or cancer...

...or hockey...or seal clubbing.

[Smallc]

...or hockey...or seal clubbing.

Yeah...because those have so much to do with scientific research....

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah...because those have so much to do with scientific research....

Has about as much to do with scientific research as do the incessant comparisons to the USA for development of domestic spending policy.

Item: The USA already has a "4 lane highway" coast to coast. But it never had "primacy" in road building.

[tango]

Ever since Harper got in, I've had my suspicions that his close ties with American evangelicals would signal a Bush-like contempt and hostility towards science. They're only happy with science when it is building new guns and gadgets for war -- they want the engineering that basic science can provide, but they fear new discoveries that threaten their beliefs that souls are magically planted into newly fertilized eggs, and that evolutionary biology will ruin their 6000 year old God-created world.

Ann Coulter caught wind of the growing hostility towards science and scientists three years ago, when she wrote a goofy book called "Godless," and used her lawyering skills to argue a case that university academics are part of a liberal godless conspiracy to take Jesus away from the common people. Since many of the new evangelical churches here in Canada are branch plants of U.S. affiliates, it should come as no surprise that they are reading from the same playbook; so the more religious right people Stephen Harper brings into the Conservative Party, and the more he puts into his government, the more we will see our government distance itself from science and try to defund scientific research and science education that is perceived as a threat to their religious worldview.

The U.S. has already lost its leadership role in stem cell research to Europe, when the top scientists left for Europe when Bush pulled the funding from new stem cell lines three years ago, just as they lost their primacy in experimental physics to CERN, when the Superconducting Supercollider project in Texas was scrapped back in the 90's. Looks like one more reason to get Harper out of office before he has a chance to imitate any more failed Bush policies!

Great post, WIP!

[WIP]

Great post, WIP!

Thanks! Now I just hope we can get rid of him before he comes up with any more great Republican ideas.

[Argus]

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/04...ts-funding.html

It seems Harper keep getting the wrong cuts into the system rather than the right ones.

This one leads to a brain drain and a loss when it comes to new technologies to help productivity and profitability.

Want to save some money? Ditch the ethanol subsidy.

Very brave of you given your party has about zero support in rural areas - outside Quebec, of course.

How about we ditch the dairy subsidies too?

[Argus]

Simple... they don't vote Conservative.

I haven't seen muich sign of intellectual support for Liberals on this site. Where are all these big thinkers anyway?

[Argus]

The problem is that Harper cuts programs that politically offend him rather than simply go department by department and telling them to hold the line and reduce spending.

Right, and it's just a coincidence you advocate cutting money to ethanol, which is largely going to the West, where your party has no support.

[Argus]

I think the Tories want to pick and choose individually who they want to support for various political reasons. And that is not how I want to spin it. It is how the Tories do it. It is how the justify killing programs. It is based on what they don't like.

In other words (gasp!) just like YOUR party did!

[jdobbin]

In other words (gasp!) just like YOUR party did!

In terms of cuts, the Harper government is far more into picking and choosing based on their dislikes. As you know, they haven't addressed reduced spending as a cross the board measure. If there is to be any success in pulling Canada out of deficit, the reduced spending will have to come everywhere rather than just areas the Tories can make hay with for their base supporters.

[jdobbin]

Right, and it's just a coincidence you advocate cutting money to ethanol, which is largely going to the West, where your party has no support.

Ethanol subsidies do not largely go to the west according to the numbers although I am interested to know if you heard differently. Some of the largest plants getting money are in Ontario and Quebec and they dwarf the prairie plants. The Varennes plant in Quebec got $18 million and many plants in Ontario are lined up for that amount of money as well.

Of the $2 billion in subsidies, the announcements on spending favour the big two provinces.

In any event, the reason I think ethanol should be cut is because it is not self sufficient, it uses food for fuel rather than actual waste, it reportedly may use more energy to produce and thereby produces more carbon, it uses a large amount of water and it results in poorer gas mileage.

[jdobbin]

Very brave of you given your party has about zero support in rural areas - outside Quebec, of course.

None of the parties support ending ethanol.

I am the one suggesting it is a waste of money because it does do what it is supposed to do.

How about we ditch the dairy subsidies too?

The federal dairy subsidies were phased out in 2002. It is now the provinces that subsidize dairy.

[waldo]

aaaaaaaaaaaa

??? was that Argus going over the deep end

[WIP]

Very brave of you given your party has about zero support in rural areas - outside Quebec, of course.

How about we ditch the dairy subsidies too?

No, because food should take precedence over fuel. All this stupid ethanol scheme has done is to drive up corn prices. Detailed analysis reveals that ethanol production from corn, contributes more pollution than gasoline, because of the oil-based fertilizers needed to grow more corn. Of the 19 Canadian ethanol plants listed at the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association,, only three are producing ethanol from biowaste products. The others are taking corn and wheat to make ethanol.

And it has to be subsidized and trade barriers have to be put up to stop Brazilian ethanol, which is much cheaper and more efficient, because it is produced from sugar cane waste. The whole scheme makes no sense other than enriching agribusiness and giving conservatives a figleaf to hold up and claim that they are developing sustainable energy resources. The whole thing started with a lie, and it is a farce from top to bottom and needs to be ended now, and replaced with a real renewable energy strategy.

[Smallc]

A scientist from the University of Montreal -- considered one of Canada's leading AIDS researchers -- is moving to the United States and bringing a talented team of up to 25 scientists with him.

Rafick-Pierre Sékaly said he and his team are heading south of the border in part because the federal government has made drastic cuts to science funding.

"I hope it will be trigger some kind of movement that will foster a deep soul searching and investment," Sékaly said in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

Sékaly will become scientific director of the Vaccine and Gene Therapy Institute in Florida.

He told the Globe his $3.5 million research budget will be more than doubled in his new position.

Sékaly believes the young scientists on his team who are just beginning their research careers will have greater opportunities in the U.S., where the Obama administration has pledged $10-billion for medical research.

Canada loses one of its leading AIDS researchers

That's right....the best government Canada has ever had....

[Shady]

I think we know who is the pathological liar is here. It is the one with Obama Derangement Syndrome who can't even follow a link.

I followed your link, and it didn't contain anything even close to what you claimed. You'd think somebody who's posted nearly 18,000 times in 3 years (do you get paid to post, or do you just not have much of a life?) would know how to support their argument. Guess not.

[Leafless]

That's right....the best government Canada has ever had....

When I was there many research scientist were complaining all they did was repeat experiments already carried out in the U.S.

Results were already known and there was not much of an initiative to go over the same experiment with a fine tooth comb to catch anything U.S. researchers possibly missed.

[Smallc]

Not AIDS. We're at the forefront of AIDS research....I guess we're going to be a little farther from the front now.

[Smallc]

A sub-Arctic research station, deemed so valuable by the Harper government a few weeks ago that it received $11 million in infrastructure funding, has now lost a federal grant that helps keep its lights and heat on.

"It's a little ironic," says Michael Goodyear, executive director of the Churchill Northern Studies Centre in Manitoba.

Goodyear was still celebrating the $11-million announcement when the centre was hit with the loss of the federal operating funds for technical staff and day-to-day operations.

Observers say it is the latest evidence of the Conservative government's inconsistent approach to Arctic science. Politicians are preoccupied with "shovel-ready" infrastructure projects, they say.

No money for sub-Arctic station

Yes sir...best government we've ever had.

[Oleg Bach]

A little disloyal fiscal snatch back like this by Harper just puts glee in the hearts of the Americans, Russians and all Asians. With climate problems and sovereignty issues are far as our north - Harper is behaving like some corporate about to off shore jobs because he does not put the Canadian family first.