Canadians divided over creation and evolution

[benny]

The culture in the Petri dish called humanity - is a natural phenomena.

Through symbols, culture transcendentally superimposes itself on nature.

[wyly]

This definition is problematic for at least two reasons: 1) ideologies may sometimes become self-fulfilling prophecies and 2) natural phenomena don't exist independently of cultural phenomena.

it's only problematic for those who want to foist creationism as a scientific "theory" which it can never be, it will only and forever be an opinion...evolution is not an ideology, it's science and independent of religious considerations...

[benny]

it's only problematic for those who want to foist creationism as a scientific "theory" which it can never be, it will only and forever be an opinion...evolution is not an ideology, it's science and independent of religious considerations...

It is problematic for all political and social theorists because their theories don't deal with purely natural phenomena.

[ToadBrother]

This definition is problematic for at least two reasons: 1) ideologies may sometimes become self-fulfilling prophecies and 2) natural phenomena don't exist independently of cultural phenomena.

A quasar would exist whether there was anyone to observe the photons it produced billions of years later. Anything approaching "culture" has existed on this planet for no more than a few million years, a tiny fraction of the Universe's existence. So yes, natural phenomena exist independently of cultural phenomena.

[benny]

A quasar would exist whether there was anyone to observe the photons it produced billions of years later. Anything approaching "culture" has existed on this planet for no more than a few million years, a tiny fraction of the Universe's existence. So yes, natural phenomena exist independently of cultural phenomena.

Existence means standing (-stance) outside (ex-) itself. Before culture (symbols), nature was strictly in itself, it did not ex-ist.

[GostHacked]

Existence means standing (-stance) outside (ex-) itself. Before culture (symbols), nature was strictly in itself, it did not ex-ist.

Almost 2000 posts !!! That would be like 500 in the last 14 days ..... so many posts, and yet nothing is actually stated.

[benny]

Almost 2000 posts !!! That would be like 500 in the last 14 days ..... so many posts, and yet nothing is actually stated.

Convert!

[GostHacked]

Convert!

Convert to what , stupidity?

[benny]

Convert to what , stupidity?

no

[GostHacked]

Evolution 4

God et al ..0

[benny]

Evolution 4

God et al ..0

This topic is about a non-evolving media survey.

[GostHacked]

This topic is about a non-evolving media survey.

That's fine, but that does not change the scoreboard.

[Oleg Bach]

Evolution 4

God et al ..0

If you are in the image of the maker - then you have just committed cosmic suicide. Boy are you typically conditioned...can't grasp the concept of eternity - or of evolution or creation - you think it's just cool to say "I hate God" and that makes you a highly evolved being - what a joke.

[GostHacked]

If you are in the image of the maker - then you have just committed cosmic suicide. Boy are you typically conditioned...can't grasp the concept of eternity - or of evolution or creation - you think it's just cool to say "I hate God" and that makes you a highly evolved being - what a joke.

I am in the image of my makers (plural) who are my parents. I have traits from both parents. They have traits from their parents, ect ect ect .. all our family tree eventually converges on a couple lineages from long ago in the Black Forest area of Germany.

I understand evolution. I don't understand ID/creationism. I can tell you for sure that I do not understand the concept of eternity, since my life is going to last at best another 50-60 years. Not one person on this planet can really understand eternity. No human mortal can understand eternity.

Eternity is forever, and ever and ever, it will not end. I don't hate god. Being an agnostic, I can't say that god exists, so by logic (ahahahahahahahahahahha logic.. there is no room for logic in GOD .. ahahahah) I can't say I hate god, or love god. I never met her.

You may think I think it is cool, but I have been traveling this godless road for a long time. I get lonely sometimes. But I am never alone.

[benny]

That's fine, but that does not change the scoreboard.

"Scoreboard" is a somewhat creative analogy borrowed from the sport culture.

[GostHacked]

"Scoreboard" is a somewhat creative analogy borrowed from the sport culture.

You are a f'n idiot. End of this thread.

Evolution wins!

[Oleg Bach]

"Scoreboard" is a somewhat creative analogy borrowed from the sport culture.

You're slipping benny...that was boarding on funny - pick up the pace - work it buddy - and be entertaining ------ come on - do your stand up routine...YOU can do it - no more lazy second rate intellectual stuff - okay?

[benny]

You're slipping benny...that was boarding on funny - pick up the pace - work it buddy - and be entertaining ------ come on - do your stand up routine...YOU can do it - no more lazy second rate intellectual stuff - okay?

Participate!

[GostHacked]

Participate!

We could ask you to participate. But we know that is never going to happen.

Seriously MODS, can't something be done about this kind of idiodicy? Are there not forum rules for this stuff?

[benny]

We could ask you to participate. But we know that is never going to happen.

Seriously MODS, can't something be done about this kind of idiodicy? Are there not forum rules for this stuff?

"Back to topic" is the rule!

[GostHacked]

"Back to topic" is the rule!

And you have been challenged on many occasions to bring it back to the topic. Failing at every corner.

http://www.intelligentdesign.org/whatisid.php

What is intelligent design?

Intelligent design refers to a scientific research program as well as a community of scientists, philosophers and other scholars who seek evidence of design in nature.

There is no theory, this is only a hypothesis.

The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Godditit.

Through the study and analysis of a system's components, a design theorist is able to determine whether various natural structures are the product of chance, natural law, intelligent design, or some combination thereof.

Wait, natural law, and natural selection are not the same???!?!??!?? So ID can't stand on it's own, so it has to try to use some science like natural law.

Such research is conducted by observing the types of information produced when intelligent agents act.

Oh I'd like to see that science paper. Hypothesis, statistics, observations, conlcusions. I bet it would be less than one of Benny's posts.

Scientists then seek to find objects which have those same types of informational properties which we commonly know come from intelligence. Intelligent design has applied these scientific methods to detect design in irreducibly complex biological structures, the complex and specified information content in DNA, the life-sustaining physical architecture of the universe, and the geologically rapid origin of biological diversity in the fossil record during the Cambrian explosion approximately 530 million years ago.

Whoaaaaa now . So Intelligent design happend about 530 million years ago? Using Ken Ham's approach 'were you there??'

And now ID is trying to separate itself from creationism.

Is intelligent design the same as creationism?

No. The theory of intelligent design is simply an effort to empirically detect whether the "apparent design" in nature acknowledged by virtually all biologists is genuine design (the product of an intelligent cause) or is simply the product of an undirected process such as natural selection acting on random variations. Creationism typically starts with a religious text and tries to see how the findings of science can be reconciled to it. Intelligent design starts with the empirical evidence of nature and seeks to ascertain what inferences can be drawn from that evidence.

lol

Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design does not claim that modern biology can identify whether the intelligent cause detected through science is supernatural.

Science cannot determine if supernatural is real. It can never determine if supernatural is real.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Intelligent_design

Intelligent design (ID) is the view that it is possible to infer from empirical evidence that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection" [1] Intelligent design cannot be inferred from complexity alone, since complex patterns often happen by chance.

What complex structures DO happen by chance?? Say it ain't so !!!!

ID focuses on just those sorts of complex patterns that in human experience are produced by a mind that conceives and executes a plan. According to adherents, intelligent design can be detected in the natural laws and structure of the cosmos; it also can be detected in at least some features of living things.

But where is the evidence?

back to the ID site

Is intelligent design a scientific theory?

Yes. The scientific method is commonly described as a four-step process involving observations, hypothesis, experiments, and conclusion. Intelligent design begins with the observation that intelligent agents produce complex and specified information (CSI).

Since science cannot and will not deal with supernatural beings, then it stops at a hypothesis. If you can do an experiment with the supernatural and garner the same results over and over again, then we can talk.

Design theorists hypothesize that if a natural object was designed, it will contain high levels of CSI. Scientists then perform experimental tests upon natural objects to determine if they contain complex and specified information. One easily testable form of CSI is irreducible complexity, which can be discovered by experimentally reverse-engineering biological structures to see if they require all of their parts to function. When ID researchers find irreducible complexity in biology, they conclude that such structures were designed.

So there is the claim that some things can come out of pure chance. Kind of throws the rest of the argument out the window.

Let me know if you need more edumacation on it.

[benny]

And you have been challenged on many occasions to bring it back to the topic. Failing at every corner.

http://www.intelligentdesign.org/whatisid.php

There is no theory, this is only a hypothesis.

Godditit.

Wait, natural law, and natural selection are not the same???!?!??!?? So ID can't stand on it's own, so it has to try to use some science like natural law.

Oh I'd like to see that science paper. Hypothesis, statistics, observations, conlcusions. I bet it would be less than one of Benny's posts.

Whoaaaaa now . So Intelligent design happend about 530 million years ago? Using Ken Ham's approach 'were you there??'

And now ID is trying to separate itself from creationism.

lol

Science cannot determine if supernatural is real. It can never determine if supernatural is real.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Intelligent_design

What complex structures DO happen by chance?? Say it ain't so !!!!

But where is the evidence?

back to the ID site

Since science cannot and will not deal with supernatural beings, then it stops at a hypothesis. If you can do an experiment with the supernatural and garner the same results over and over again, then we can talk.

So there is the claim that some things can come out of pure chance. Kind of throws the rest of the argument out the window.

Let me know if you need more edumacation on it.

Go in the science forum (off-topic discussions) if you are not interested by politics.

[GostHacked]

Go in the science forum (off-topic discussions) if you are not interested by politics.

Do you really want to get schooled in another thread? Can't we keep it to just one thread to school all you IDers and creationists on??

http://www.designinference.com/documents/2...uestions_ID.pdf

2. Generalizing SETI

The search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) is a scientific research program that

searches for signs of intelligence from distant space. Should biologists likewise search

for signs of intelligence in biological systems? Why or why not?

AHAHAAHA

The thread is the divide over creationism and evolution. So to understand the divide, you must understand what the argument is. You are not even trying.

[benny]

The thread is the divide over creationism and evolution. So to understand the divide, you must understand what the argument is. You are not even trying.

It is the general Canadian population that is a little bit divided about creationism. If science is needed here it is to understand social ideology, collective hysteria, the role of religion in politics, etc., in short, nothing directly related to biology.

Edited June 3, 2009 by benny

[GostHacked]

It is the general Canadian population that is a little bit divided about creationism. If science is needed here it is to understand social ideology, collective hysteria, the role of religion in politics, etc., in short, nothing directly related to biology.

What? Now you decide to start making sense??