Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 I live in Kingston, prison country, and the buzz the past few days is the announcement that the Conservatives are closing two prison farms here, as well as four others in Alberta, Saskatchewan and New Brunswick. http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1450349 The mathametical genius Stockwell Day spent a kazillion dollars on a study that will save us two million dollars on our farms. Naturally the opposition believe, and are probably right, that Flaherty plans a fire sale of this prime agricultural land to cover up his mismanagement of the country's finances. An old Mike Harris ploy. The criticism of the system by the Cons is that not enough of the prisoners get jobs on farms when they're through. However, what they do learn is far more important; responsibility, teamwork and punctuality. For the inmates working on the farms is a privilege they have to earn. A lot of the produce, including the beef, is used in prison meals and a lot of it is sold to the local community. Those farms have been here as long as I have, and they were always considered to be a great rehabilitation tool. In fact, one is practically in my backyard. Prisoners don't escape from there because they love the life. If they do I hope they bring me some corn. They always have the tallest in the region. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
M.Dancer Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 There are polenty of ways to teach inmates to be punctual and to work in teams....the stopwatch gang comes to mind. My thought are the land would be better exploited in the hands of professional farmers rather than cons looking to upgrade their grow op skills... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 So are plans to build a new prison in BC. Story I would have thought with all the clamouring to do something about the 'epidemic' of gangs and crime that have made BC's mean streets amongst the most dangerous in the world that people would be cheering at the news of a new prison. What happened to crackin' down and gettin' tough? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) My thought are the land would be better exploited in the hands of professional farmers rather than cons looking to upgrade their grow op skills... It won't be exploited by professional farmers, unless you mean corporate farms; though it's now part of a business community, so I doubt agriculture will be an option. The system has worked for decades. I have never been afraid of the prison farm being so close, and in fact there have been more people caught breaking in, stealing the produce. Every year they sponsor a 'Special Olympics' on the property where evey athlete is teamed up with a 'buddy'. Not one single problem. Sadly, the Conservatives are not motivated toward rehabilitation, only punishment and hiding a larger deficit. These 'farmer's were clearly enjoying themselves too much, but before you say they don't deserve it, they had to earn the right to be on the farm through good behaviour. This enhanced security and workplace safety for the guards. Edited February 25, 2009 by Progressive Tory Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Alta4ever Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) It won't be exploited by professional farmers, unless you mean corporate farms; though it's now part of a business community, so I doubt agriculture will be an option. Realy I live in the heart of farm country and their is not one corperate farm in the immediate area, and I mean by that a 40 mile radius. Edited February 25, 2009 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
DrGreenthumb Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 It won't be exploited by professional farmers, unless you mean corporate farms; though it's now part of a business community, so I doubt agriculture will be an option. The system has worked for decades. I have never been afraid of the prison farm being so close, and in fact there have been more people caught breaking in, stealing the produce. Every year they sponsor a 'Special Olympics' on the property where evey athlete is teamed up with a 'buddy'. Not one single problem. Sadly, the Conservatives are not motivated toward rehabilitation, only punishment and hiding a larger deficit. These 'farmer's were clearly enjoying themselves too much, but before you say they don't deserve it, they had to earn the right to be on the farm through good behaviour. This enhanced security and workplace safety for the guards. Sadly Harper's Conservatives idea of a crime prevention strategy is simply to threaten people with manaTORY minimum sentences and the threat of being sexually and physically assaulted while in the custody of the Canadian government. They think that the more miserable and scary they make the prison system the less people will commit crime. The reality is that nobody commits a "crime" thinking that they will be caught anyway so subjecting those that are "caught" to abuse, and neglect only hardens those in prison and makes them even more dangerous and angry when they get out and does zero to deter crime. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 I would have thought with all the clamouring to do something about the 'epidemic' of gangs and crime that have made BC's mean streets amongst the most dangerous in the world that people would be cheering at the news of a new prison.... What happened to crackin' down and gettin' tough? Isn't that a Provincial facility? These are federal prisons. As a person who has spent four decades in Kingston, where you can't walk far without seeing one of them, I have never felt threatened by their existence. We have Maximum (Kingston Pen), Super Max (Millhaven) Medium (Collin's Bay) and Minimum (Frontenac and Joyceville). Two of my brothers-in-law are retired guards, one from Millhaven and the other KP. Usually, when there's an escape the first thing the Cons do is get out of the area as quickly as possible. The only protest here was the halfway house which adjoins an elementary school. I did sign that petition, though it's still open. We like the prison farms, but I do disagree with the fact that some of the prisoners are allowed to attend Queen's University, and it doesn't cost them a dime. Who says crime doesn't pay? I'd rather see them shovel cow poop. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Wilber Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 So are plans to build a new prison in BC.Story I would have thought with all the clamouring to do something about the 'epidemic' of gangs and crime that have made BC's mean streets amongst the most dangerous in the world that people would be cheering at the news of a new prison. What happened to crackin' down and gettin' tough? There is more than meets the eye here. As usual, politics gets in the way. The NDP candidate who hosted the forum happens to be the wife of the mayor. The mayor, Derek Corrigan has been touted as a future leader of the Provincial NDP should Carol James be unable to deliver the goods. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
M.Dancer Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 As a person who has spent four decades in Kingston, Well now that you have paid your debt to society, the song bird association welcomes you and your unique skills. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
sharkman Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) PT, please tell me how it is that you consider yourself a tory. You walk and talk like a socialist. I'm pretty sure you vote NDP, which would be fine, but at least have the gumption to call yourself what you are instead of pretending. You hate Harper and criticize everything his government does, just like Jack. Edited February 25, 2009 by sharkman Quote
Moonbox Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 The name really doesn't mean anything. I consider myself fairly liberal as far as social issues go, but I've voted Tory provincially and federally since 2006. What difference does it make what someone calls themself? Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
M.Dancer Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 The name really doesn't mean anything. I consider myself fairly liberal as far as social issues go, but I've voted Tory provincially and federally since 2006. What difference does it make what someone calls themself? on another board I call myself son...but it is spelled differently with a soft c and a silent t Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bill_barilko Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 The system has worked for decades. I have never been afraid of the prison farm being so close, Ditto! In the early 70's I lived within hearing distance of one for a while I mean we could hear the cows in the AM never any probs. Surprised the farms are still there given the massive urban sprawl in Ontario now. Quote
blueblood Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 It won't be exploited by professional farmers, unless you mean corporate farms; though it's now part of a business community, so I doubt agriculture will be an option. Sadly, the Conservatives are not motivated toward rehabilitation, only punishment and hiding a larger deficit. These 'farmer's were clearly enjoying themselves too much, but before you say they don't deserve it, they had to earn the right to be on the farm through good behaviour. This enhanced security and workplace safety for the guards. Do you even know what a corporation is? I suggest you look it up. There are many smaller farms that are under the corporate model. Bringing up this big business nonsense forcing people off the land is flat out nonsense. Please don't comment anymore about agriculture, you don't know your head from your ass regarding this topic. Valuable land shouldn't be wasted on prisoners, it should be utilized by those wanting to make a living at it. Prisoners should be doing the "sweatshop" thing and supplying shoes to Nike at rock bottom prices. Rehabilitation has been IMO a failure, Prison gets to be too cushy and you run the risk of people committing crimes to get to a better situation. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
M.Dancer Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 Do you even know what a corporation is? I suggest you look it up. There are many smaller farms that are under the corporate model. Bringing up this big business nonsense forcing people off the land is flat out nonsense. Please don't comment anymore about agriculture, you don't know your head from your ass regarding this topic. Valuable land shouldn't be wasted on prisoners, it should be utilized by those wanting to make a living at it. Prisoners should be doing the "sweatshop" thing and supplying shoes to Nike at rock bottom prices. Rehabilitation has been IMO a failure, Prison gets to be too cushy and you run the risk of people committing crimes to get to a better situation. Just because the land could be (no evidence yet that there is a plan to sell the land) used by real farmers doesn't mean that the prisoners couldn't get real farm experiance....the feds could farm out the prisoners as it were....rent them to those needing extra manpower. That way they Big House gets some revenue, the fed get revenue from the land sale and the famers can have slave labour at a reasonable cost. Clearly a win win win situation. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
blueblood Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 Just because the land could be (no evidence yet that there is a plan to sell the land) used by real farmers doesn't mean that the prisoners couldn't get real farm experiance....the feds could farm out the prisoners as it were....rent them to those needing extra manpower. That way they Big House gets some revenue, the fed get revenue from the land sale and the famers can have slave labour at a reasonable cost.Clearly a win win win situation. Might work for cabbage and lettuce; corn and soybeans no dice. Heavy machinery is making "slave labour" a thing of the past. Why not use that slave labour to make shoes and cheap t-shirts for walmart instead prisoners running around loose outside? Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 Well now that you have paid your debt to society, the song bird association welcomes you and your unique skills. Yeah, I wish. I'd love a free education from Queen's. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 PT, please tell me how it is that you consider yourself a tory. You walk and talk like a socialist. I'm pretty sure you vote NDP, which would be fine, but at least have the gumption to call yourself what you are instead of pretending. You hate Harper and criticize everything his government does, just like Jack. Voted PC until Mackay sold us out, with the exception of Mulroney's last kick at the cat. Voted NDP in 2004 and 2006. Voted for Peter Milliken in 2008 as part of strategic voting. Never liked Harper but didn't hate him until his trumped up separatist campaign. At times he almost lured me in, but he can never redeem himself now. The prison farms were a good thing. Something all conservatives should have loved because the inmates were contributing to society, and being made earn their keep. Farming is hard work and those boys worked hard. Seems like they already have plans in the works though. My son's girlfriend came to visit today and she said there were people out surveying the property. He's got to sell it quick in case there's an election soon. Gotta' get that money back in the bank before we notice it's missing. Classic Mike harris. Flaherty learned from the best (or the worst, depending on how you look at it) Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 The name really doesn't mean anything. I consider myself fairly liberal as far as social issues go, but I've voted Tory provincially and federally since 2006. What difference does it make what someone calls themself? Exactly. Some people are too partisan. My nature is fairly conservative but I do own a yellow sweater. I've always been in favour of social programs...maybe it was growing up poor. My family always says that I probably have the first dollar I ever earned, but I don't consider myself stingy, just frugal. Rarely buy anything on impulse. Don't know where that puts me politically, but it shouldn't matter. Over the years I've liked politicians from all parties, because I thought they were deserving. Ed Broadbent, Preston Manning, Chuck Strahl, Jim Prentice, Lester Pearson; to name a few. Doesn't mean I'd vote for them, but still respected them. My meager CD collection includes everything from Janis Joplin to Paul Brant. I don't like being pigeon holed. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 Ditto!In the early 70's I lived within hearing distance of one for a while I mean we could hear the cows in the AM never any probs. Surprised the farms are still there given the massive urban sprawl in Ontario now. Yep. Everything's just grown around them, especially in my neck of the woods. My grandson loves to go to the fence when the cows are out. A chance to visit a farm right in the middle of the city. We love it. Turn right from the main road leading into the subdivision and it's a huge residential area...turn left and you're right in their field. Can't imagine what eyesore they'll put there. They're making a huge mistake because once that land is gone, it's gone. It's a buyer's market and the money they make from it will be spent in a week. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
M.Dancer Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 Might work for cabbage and lettuce; corn and soybeans no dice. Heavy machinery is making "slave labour" a thing of the past.Why not use that slave labour to make shoes and cheap t-shirts for walmart instead prisoners running around loose outside? The Bulls have a wider, less obstucted killing field outside....and the frsh air does the soul good. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
blueblood Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 The Bulls have a wider, less obstucted killing field outside....and the frsh air does the soul good. Bulls aren't that dangerous and that's what ventilation is for. I'd rather see prisoners making shoes for Nike instead of children in Bangledesh. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) Bulls aren't that dangerous and that's what ventilation is for.I'd rather see prisoners making shoes for Nike instead of children in Bangledesh. Why are prisoners making children in Bangledesh? Edited February 26, 2009 by Progressive Tory Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
M.Dancer Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 Why are prisoners making children in Bangledesh? I would like to see that factory.. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Progressive Tory Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 Realy I live in the heart of farm country and their is not one corperate farm in the immediate area, and I mean by that a 40 mile radius. Yes but you live in farm country. This is in the middle of urban sprawl. A single farmer probably couldn't afford the land or the taxes. It's huge. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
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