GM/Chrysler on verge of Bankruptcy

[bush_cheney2004]

Your party didn't want him because of his religion.

That's what they said about JFK too.

[punked]

I like Mittens. Health care for all, Gay marriage for all, abortion for all. He is one of the better ones, he governs for the people.

[Shady]

I like Mittens. Health care for all, Gay marriage for all, abortion for all. He is one of the better ones, he governs for the people.

As usual, you distort the facts.

[lictor616]

Yes they do. Better handling ,, but maybe a little bumpier ride. Do not confuse ride comfort with handling.

Some may be designed specifically for that purpose, but low profile tires do offer better handling overall

You are an absolute idiot if you use low profile tired in the winter. My pal has stock summer tires on his Mazda3. He also has another set of winter tires. His 'all seasons' could not get him out of my driveway one time. It was a sudden snow hit, the next coupld days he swapped out the tires.

Bigger mushy tires do NOT give you better handling. It will give you a more comfortable ride though.

M. Dancer

If the overal circumfrence of the tire/rim is the same .. then the tranny will work just as hard. You are going to a larger rim with a smaller side wall tire. So your 17" rims plus low profile tires is the same radius as the 15" rim with large side wall tires.

They spin at the same rate regardless.

exactly!!! SAME SPIN RADIUS... no advantage.

the tire being shorter and stiffer, will flex less in cornering and transition maneuvers- but this advantage is counterproductive as it gives you a BUMPY effect- they MIGHT be good for really quick lane clipping... useless in circuits..

low profile wheels do not in any way affect tire print, or adherence ... or whatever... low profile merely means SHORTER SIDEWALLS... which only DECREASE reliability and INCREASE road noise. doesn't change tread, inner liner, or sipes... so it has ZERO bearing on any of the faculties that make a tire perform.

for instance - i beg you take a look at formula 1 wheels... yeah thats right: HUGE SIDEWALL... super HIGH PROFILE TIRES. same for indy, same for ANY racing sport. true street illegal racing slicks are NEVER low profile.

btw I said (MINUS WINTER)

i believe this argument is settled.

Edited April 5, 2009 by lictor616

[lictor616]

Yes they do. Better handling ,, but maybe a little bumpier ride. Do not confuse ride comfort with handling.

okay please show me the evidence: how does a low profile tire help with handling say..

[bush_cheney2004]

okay please show me the evidence: how does a low profile tire help with handling say..

It's about sidewall flex under lateral g-forces....lower profile tires have "stiffer" sidewalls under load. This is important for predicatble and direct handling, often at the cost of a harsher ride. Go to any competition drifting event and look at the wheel-tire setups.

[August1991]

I thought he was best suited for the Republican nomination and had predicted it would be him and Obama as the nominees. What I didn't expect was the severe backlash against him that seemed strongly related to religion in a lot of cases

IMHO, Romney was a Stepford Husband.

Then again, after four years of "Look here... " and Jay Leno appearances, and flat economic statistics, American voters may listen to someone who speaks directly without flash or charisma.

[ironstone]

I say let them declare bankruptcy.For so many years the greedy unions kept demanding more and more,and inept managers kept giving them everything they demanded.Clearly these costs were unsustainable in the long term and now they have the audacity to demand public money keep them afloat.I have read that CAW members have not contributed a dime to their own pension plan and they now expect the public to pay.According to an article last week in the Ottawa Sun,in Canada there are twice as many retired GM employees as those currently working!

They have to come back to earth sometime.

[August1991]

One down. Now we'll see if the drama of GM will have a similar end.

President Barack Obama plans to announce tomorrow that Chrysler LLC will be placed into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, leading to an alliance with Italian automaker Fiat SpA, people involved in the matter said.

Bloomberg

There was no way the smaller creditors were going to take such a large haircut while everyone else walked away with taxpayer cash.

----

Keep in mind that Chapter 11 doesn't mean that you won't see Chryslers on the road in the future. Bankruptcy is not death, although it sometimes smell funny.

[GostHacked]

I wanted them all to go tits up with the first round of bail outs by the Bush administration. The money did not help then, it will not work now either. It is pissing money away like crazy.

[GostHacked]

exactly!!! SAME SPIN RADIUS... no advantage.

the tire being shorter and stiffer, will flex less in cornering and transition maneuvers- but this advantage is counterproductive as it gives you a BUMPY effect- they MIGHT be good for really quick lane clipping... useless in circuits..

Again, don't confuse handling with a comfortable ride, they are two completely different things.

low profile wheels do not in any way affect tire print, or adherence ... or whatever... low profile merely means SHORTER SIDEWALLS... which only DECREASE reliability and INCREASE road noise. doesn't change tread, inner liner, or sipes... so it has ZERO bearing on any of the faculties that make a tire perform.

I am sure the tire manufacturers would dissagree with you.

for instance - i beg you take a look at formula 1 wheels... yeah thats right: HUGE SIDEWALL... super HIGH PROFILE TIRES. same for indy, same for ANY racing sport. true street illegal racing slicks are NEVER low profile.

They are also very soft tires, and made out of a different composition all together. They are soft for traction to stick to the road. Also, comparing an F1 set up to the average driver out there is won't work. There is a reason an F1 car's tires are more expensive than your whole car. Those tires need to be changed a few times during the race to keep the car sticking to the road. NASCAR has the same ideaology when it comes to tires.

An F1 car has millions of dollars invested in one single car and a dedicated large crew to keep that car running in top condition in all fasions. Your average vehicle out there has the same amount of money invested, but everyone can have one. There is no real comparison. And you don't get your own personal pit crew.

i believe this argument is settled.

Uh huh.

[Shady]

Here's some scary stuff.

Administration Threatened to Destroy Investment Firm's Reputation

A leading bankruptcy attorney representing hedge funds and money managers told ABC News Saturday that Steve Rattner, the leader of the Obama administration's Auto Industry Task Force, threatened one of the firms, an investment bank, that if it continued to oppose the administration's Chrysler bankruptcy plan, the White House would use the White House press corps to destroy its reputation.

ABC News

So essentially, you have The Obama administration threatening to use the WHite House press corps to destroy the reputations of private citizens, as a punishment for not relinquishing their contractual rights for having helped keep Chrysler from bankruptcy. This is pretty disgusting. That's hope n change, Nixonian-style.

[punked]

Here's some scary stuff.

Administration Threatened to Destroy Investment Firm's Reputation

A leading bankruptcy attorney representing hedge funds and money managers told ABC News Saturday that Steve Rattner, the leader of the Obama administration's Auto Industry Task Force, threatened one of the firms, an investment bank, that if it continued to oppose the administration's Chrysler bankruptcy plan, the White House would use the White House press corps to destroy its reputation.

ABC News

So essentially, you have The Obama administration threatening to use the WHite House press corps to destroy the reputations of private citizens, as a punishment for not relinquishing their contractual rights for having helped keep Chrysler from bankruptcy. This is pretty disgusting. That's hope n change, Nixonian-style.

Can I ask you question? How come when any democrat says anything you assume they are lying? However when this guy I never heard of says something you assume it is the truth? Where is the evidence? Do you have any? Honestly it dumbfounds me.

[August1991]

Robert Manzo, an executive director with Capstone Advisory Group, told a Manhattan courtroom that there is a "low likelihood" the so-called debtor-in-possession financing would be repaid, since it is subordinate to almost $7-billion (U.S.) in Chrysler debt held by banks, hedge funds and other lenders. The loans are designed to help the company continue operating while it is locked in bankruptcy proceedings.

Judge Arthur Gonzalez, who is overseeing the case, ruled last night that Chrysler can begin accessing $4.5-billion in government loans while it attempts to restructure and work out a sale of its assets. The governments of Canada and Ontario have committed $1.45-billion toward this emergency funding.

...

Chrysler's downward spiral has sparked fears that governments on both sides of the border will be asked to throw escalating amounts of free money to other imperilled auto makers.

Yesterday, Ottawa and Ontario revealed that they have extended $500-million (Canadian) in loans to General Motors of Canada Ltd. GM-N to help pay suppliers and other operating costs.

G&M

But this is the most damning news from the same article:

United Auto Workers president Ron Gettelfinger says the union will sell its 55-per-cent stake in Chrysler as soon as possible to fund a trust that will take over the company's retiree health care payments starting next year.

[Shady]

Can I ask you question? How come when any democrat says anything you assume they are lying? However when this guy I never heard of says something you assume it is the truth? Where is the evidence? Do you have any? Honestly it dumbfounds me.

Because I read the news.

New Allegations Of White House Threats Over Chrysler

Creditors to Chrysler describe negotiations with the company and the Obama administration as "a farce," saying the administration was bent on forcing their hands using hardball tactics and threats.

The sources, who represent creditors to Chrysler, say they were taken aback by the hardball tactics that the Obama administration employed to cajole them into acquiescing to plans to restructure Chrysler. One person described the administration as the most shocking "end justifies the means" group they have ever encountered. Another characterized Obama was "the most dangerous smooth talker on the planet- and I knew Kissinger." Both were voters for Obama in the last election.

Link

[Sir Bandelot]

The sources, who represent creditors to Chrysler, say they were taken aback by the hardball tactics that the Obama administration employed to cajole them into acquiescing to plans to restructure Chrysler.

Hey wait a sec now, its clear you don't support Obama or the bailouts, yet here you seem to criticize the fact that they were not given the money carte-blanche. If they screw up and can't run their company without a major cash injection, ie. public money, it seems fair that some changes would have to be made, fix the real problems internally before handing over the cash.

My banker won't give me a loan unless I prove that I can pay it back, by showing some fiscal responsibility. So which is it? You don't want to give them public money, but they get to do whatever they want with it?