this is why israel doesn't want a just peace

[Canadian Blue]

Yes, those damn Israeli's with their system of laws and courts. What a bunch of genocidal maniacs.

[dub]

Israel, or more specifically, the IDF has prosecuted officers for using palestinians to convince suspects to surrender...years after the appeal,

can you show me how they were prosecuted and what was the exact sentence? give me a few examples of this.

As well, calling the use of civilians "human shields" is over dramatic. They are in little danger and their function is not to shild the IDF from the terrorists but to convince them to surrender so no one gets hurt...sort of like when the police get the wife of a suicide jumper to talk her husband out ofhurting himself.....I appaud the creativity of the IDF and their willingness to uphold court rulings they don't agree with.

lol. police.. wife... suicide jumper. hilarious analogy.

way to try to justify that one.

asking civilians to go door to door is just one of the examples of using civilians as human shields. they've also camped in homes while keeping the civilians. regardless, any use of civilians as human shield, is illegal.

[dub]

Yes, those damn Israeli's with their system of laws and courts. What a bunch of genocidal maniacs.

i think it's great that israel's courts try to follow law. it's too bad the IDF and the government does not follow what the courts say.

[M.Dancer]

can you show me how they were prosecuted and what was the exact sentence? give me a few examples of this.

pffft....you would already know about it if you were blinded by your fake outrage...

The Israeli army says it has suspended a commander after the unit he led was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank raid.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6554487.stm

[dub]

Human Shields -

Timeline of events

* April 2002 - During Operation Defensive Shield, soldiers greatly increase the use of Palestinians as human shields.

* May 2002 - Seven human rights organizations petition the High Court of Justice against the use of Palestinians as human shields. The IDF informs the court that it will stop using civilians for military tasks, except for the "neighbor procedure."

* August 2002 - Nidal Abu Mukhsan is killed while serving as a human shield during implementation of the "neighbor procedure." Following another petition filed by the human rights organizations, the court issues a temporary injunction forbidding the IDF to use the procedure. Soldiers continue to use it.

* November 2002 - B'Tselem publishes a report that describes five cases in which soldiers violated the court's order. The petitioners file an application in accordance with the Contempt of Court Ordinance.

* December 2002 – The State files its response to the Court, in which it contends that the army is no longer using Palestinians as human shields but only “is assisted by residents to prevent the loss of life.” The State attaches the “prior warning procedure,” which is intended to replace the “neighbor procedure.” According to the new procedure, “assistance” by civilians is allowed if, in the judgment of the military commander in the field, the life of the “person giving assistance” is not endangered, provided that the individual consents. In reply, the human rights organizations contend that the new procedure is unlawful and that it is incorrect to state that such “assistance” does not endanger the person’s life. The petitioners include testimonies relating to cases in which civilians were used as human shields after the High Court issued the temporary injunction.

* January 2003 - The High Court of Justice reduces the temporary injunction, and allows use of the “prior warning procedure.” At the request of the High Court, the human rights organizations file a legal opinion stating that the procedure is unlawful. The IDF has not yet responded to the petitioners’ arguments. In the meanwhile, it implements the “prior warning procedure.”

* July 2003 – The High Court hears the petition of the human rights organizations, in which the parties argue the legality of the “prior warning procedure” and the application to hold the respondent in contempt of court, which was filed after the IDF continued to use human shields. The High Court extends the validity of the temporary injunction until further order.

* April 2004 – The human rights organizations file an application with the High Court for a temporary order directing the IDF to refrain from using Palestinians as human shields and/or hostages, and to forbid the IDF from asking them to take part in any military action, or to use them in any such action, without exception and without army officials having any discretion in the matter. The petitioners attach testimonies and affidavits relating to additional cases, dating from December 2003 to April 2004, in which civilians were used as human shields.

* August 2004 – On 16 August 2004, Adalah files an application requesting that the Court order the IDF, in accordance with the Contempt of Court Ordinance, to comply with the High Court’s order prohibiting it from using individuals as human shields or hostages in military operations. The application also requests that the High Court impose a fine on the military authorities.

In its application, Adalah contends that the IDF is continuing to violate the High Court prohibition on the use of human shields. Attached to the application are eight new testimonies, which were given to B’Tselem, involving cases in which the IDF used Palestinians as human shields or hostages between the period January-July 2004.

* September 2004 – On 5 September 2004, the High Court hears the petition filed by Adalah in May 2002 against the use of Palestinians as human shields or hostages. Supreme Court President Aharon Barak criticizes the “prior warning procedure,” which replaced the “neighbor procedure,” and urges the IDF to forego use of the procedure, on the grounds that the Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits the use of local residents in military actions by the occupying army. In his comments, President Barak says that, “Out of one hundred cases in which the neighbor willingly helps the army, ninety-nine of them will be against his will. It is very hard to verify willingness, and the fear is that, when a contingent of soldier come at night, out of fear no neighbor will refuse to cooperate with the soldiers.” The High Court announces that it will give it decision at a later time.

* October 2005 – On 6 October 2005, the High Court of Justice rules that it is illegal for the IDF to use Palestinian civilians during military actions and that it is forbidden to use the prior warning procedure.

* 2007 – Despite the High Court’s decision and army orders preceding and following it, security forces continue to use Palestinians as human shields. In 2007, B'Tselem documented twelve such cases. For example, in February, soldiers forced two Palestinian minors, aged 11 and 15, to accompany them in combing houses and opening the doors to the houses and the rooms. In July, a 14-year-old girl from Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, was shot in the leg and stomach when soldiers used her as a human shield.

* October 2007 – The Judge Advocate General decides not to prosecute the commander of IDF forces in the West Bank, Brig.-Gen. Yair Golan, who in five cases ordered use of the “prior-warning procedure.” The JAG suffices with a light disciplinary punishment. This decision transmits a message of contempt for Palestinian life and the High Court.

B'Tselem

Edited March 5, 2009 by dub

[dub]

The method is the same each time: soldiers pick a civilian at random and force him to protect them by doing dangerous tasks that put his life at risk. For example, soldiers have ordered Palestinians to:

* enter buildings to check if they are booby-trapped, or to remove the occupants

* remove suspicious objects from roads used by the army

* stand inside houses where soldiers have set up military positions, so that Palestinians will not fire at the soldiers

* walk in front of soldiers to shield them from gunfire, while the soldiers hold a gun behind their backs and sometimes fire over their shoulders.

The soldiers in the field did not initiate this practice; rather, the order to use civilians as a means of protection was made by senior army officials.

Despite the High Court’s decision and army orders preceding and following it, security forces continue to use Palestinians as human shields. In 2007, for example, B'Tselem documented twelve such cases.

B'Tselem

Edited March 5, 2009 by dub

[Canadian Blue]

dub, how many of these shields have been killed.

By the way, M. Dancer has already pointed out that people who have used human shields have been put before a court of law.

[M.Dancer]

dub, how many of these shields have been killed.

Foir the record, one. He was murdered by a palestinian terrorist who mistook him for a martyr.

[dub]

Save your breath CB. Mind you, I think we have a replacement for Buffycat re: B'Tselem links. Maybe we should have dub bronzed.

factual information seem to bring out responses like yours.

:clap:

[M.Dancer]

factual information seem to bring out responses like yours.

:clap:

Yes CB iis alweays good for factual information...like pegging you for instance.

[dub]

Yes CB iis alweays good for factual information...like pegging you for instance.

you're all about the zingers, eh dancer? how is the whole reporting me to copyright organization coming along?

looks like DoP's post has been deleted. weird that one of my posts in another thread was also deleted.

[dub]

still waiting to see a response to these:

* 2007 – Despite the High Court’s decision and army orders preceding and following it, security forces continue to use Palestinians as human shields. In 2007, B'Tselem documented twelve such cases. For example, in February, soldiers forced two Palestinian minors, aged 11 and 15, to accompany them in combing houses and opening the doors to the houses and the rooms. In July, a 14-year-old girl from Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, was shot in the leg and stomach when soldiers used her as a human shield.

* October 2007 – The Judge Advocate General decides not to prosecute the commander of IDF forces in the West Bank, Brig.-Gen. Yair Golan, who in five cases ordered use of the “prior-warning procedure.” The JAG suffices with a light disciplinary punishment. This decision transmits a message of contempt for Palestinian life and the High Court.

B'Tselem

is B'Tselem another self-hating jewish human rights organization?

what's your excuse for them criticizing israel's actions towards the palestinians?

[DogOnPorch]

Don't see much point in responding if mods are going to delete my posts.

[Canadian Blue]

Why are the mods deleting all these posts. I've noticed that in this thread and many others.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why are the mods deleting all these posts. I've noticed that in this thread and many others.

Not sure it is purposeful deletions instead of a problem with the site engine.

[jbg]

Not sure it is purposeful deletions instead of a problem with the site engine.

I think all post March 5 posts at a certain time and pre-March 6 posts around 8AM MST were scratched.

[Oleg Bach]

I think all post March 5 posts at a certain time and pre-March 6 posts around 8AM MST were scratched.

Some times they edit I assume - usually they are right in doing so - if the point is not focused and the administrator believes it to be important...they just want you do do your best - and sometimes is a tech glitch.

[GostHacked]

I think all post March 5 posts at a certain time and pre-March 6 posts around 8AM MST were scratched.

It's most likely due to the code of the website and how it handles posts. I recall there was an upgrade to the site back end some time ago, then we saw the rise of double posts and deleted posts.

The double post thing only happened to me a couple times. I do it it affect others more (guess with the amount of posting they do)

[ironstone]

who here doesn't want to acknowledge the smelly elephant in the room?

this is why israel doesn't want peace and by israel, i mean the right wing, fascist and racist israelis who control the government. they know that any peace deal will inevitably include agreeing to no more settlements and no more land, even giving back a chunk of what they've already stolen.

So why wasn't there any peace before all the land was "stolen"?

[DogOnPorch]

So why wasn't there any peace before all the land was "stolen"?

The Grand Mufti & crew.