Online voting poll Are you in favour Yes or No?

[tomcat]

Municipal elections every three years, provincial every four, federal every three to four on average but make it every two, what the hell. At 1/2 hour a pop that is what maybe 2 1/2 hours of your time over four years. A lot less time than most people spend sitting in Tims or Starbucks in a week. A hell of a lot less time than you spend on this forum. They are lazy and the fact that other people will risk their lives to vote while poor whiny complacent Canadians won't get off their fat asses to spend a half hour to do so is not mute, it is gauge of our sense of entitlement. Poor baby, what is it you do that makes your time so valuable? Bet I don't use it. This is one poll or vote that can't be done online or by phone and that is what I like about it. In part, the fact it takes some effort is what makes it worth doing.

I don't give a rat's A if it takes effort. Some how having to physically go and vote makes you the great democratic superman. LOL! I believe in voting, and I do every election. I just don't think it needs to have some sort of ooooo look at me I'm going down to the polling station... I'm such a democratic heroe!.... LOL!

Just because some countries still live in the dark ages and are fighting their way into democracy doens't mean we shouldn't advance society. Online voting will be the future and will be here soon thank god! So I don't have to cart my lazy ass down to any old age voting booth.... LOL!

[Wilber]

I don't give a rat's A if it takes effort. Some how having to physically go and vote makes you the great democratic superman. LOL! I believe in voting, and I do every election. I just don't think it needs to have some sort of ooooo look at me I'm going down to the polling station... I'm such a democratic heroe!.... LOL!

Just because some countries still live in the dark ages and are fighting their way into democracy doens't mean we shouldn't advance society. Online voting will be the future and will be here soon thank god! So I don't have to cart my lazy ass down to any old age voting booth.... LOL!

Obviously you do give a rat's A otherwise you wouldn't mind doing it so much. It doesn't make you a democratic superman but it does mean you care enough to get off your A and do it. Why should you or I give a rat's A about those who can't be bothered?

[Riverwind]

Some how having to physically go and vote makes you the great democratic superman.

Setting up a secure online system will cost the government a fair amount of money. Why should the government spend money so you can be lazy. If you want to vote go to a poll. I doubt your time is valuable enough to cover the expense of setting up the system. Edited January 29, 2009 by Riverwind

[madmax]

Setting up a secure online system will cost the government a fair amount of money. Why should the government spend money so you can be lazy.

I look forward to voting as an excuse to leave work.

[Alta4ever]

Setting up a secure online system will cost the government a fair amount of money. Why should the government spend money so you can be lazy. If you want to vote go to a poll. I doubt your time is valuable enough to cover the expense of setting up the system.

Tomcats time must not be that valuable he wastes it on the internet. Face it Tomcat you are so lazy you thinkt he world should come to you. YOU ARE LAZY WHINY BRAT WHO CAN"T TAKE A LITTLE TIME OFF COMPUTER TO GO VOTE.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Alta4ever

[madmax]

I just received a phone call last night from a polling firm.. why can't I remember which one... and one of the MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY topics was ONLINE VOTING.

There were just 2 questions on it, which is unusual, because the other topics kept coming back with the same, similar or progressive questions as you answered them. And they had multiple levels of support 1 through 5 agree to disagree.

However the TWO questions on Online voting were something like this....

1) Should individuals be able the INTERNET be used to update voter information with Elections Canada?

Yes or NO

2) Should voters be allowed to cast their ballots over the internet?

Yes or NO

When I answered that question, the poller broke up afterwards.....

[Oleg Bach]

Are we nuts? The only real vote is to scratch an X on paper and drop it into a locked steel box. There are tech wizards out their for hire that have no quams about undermining democracy for a hefty brown envelope of cash - I say no ----just like the net is dis-connected from reality - eg...someone slanders you while using an assumed name - It becomes a futile situation if you want just revenge - The person is out there in the ether - you can grab him by the scruff of the neck and throttle him...just as on line voting would be - a system where justice, honesty, transparencey and accountabilty will not exist - It is impossible to maintain honour because there is no eye to eye contact - or flesh on flesh just revenge --- I say no....but you can if you want because there is no democracy any way any where any how..

[Bryan]

No way. No paper record, too much chance of fraud and abuse.

[madmax]

Just to refresh... Here is the MLW poll on online voting....

[Sir Bandelot]

Not in favour of it. For one thing I don't trust the internet enough to agree with that. Second thing is, it will be more attractive to mainly young voters. Lots of older people don't have the internet or even know how to use a computer, so most of the increased voting will be by younger voters. Not that is bad in itself, but it skews the distribution of voting population. Same goes for online referendums, or the idea of a suggestion box.

In other words, equal steps would have to be taken to give a voice to anyone who wants to vote or give their suggestion, not just those with access to computers.

[eyeball]

Not in favour of it. For one thing I don't trust the internet enough to agree with that. Second thing is, it will be more attractive to mainly young voters. Lots of older people don't have the internet or even know how to use a computer, so most of the increased voting will be by younger voters. Not that is bad in itself, but it skews the distribution of voting population. Same goes for online referendums, or the idea of a suggestion box.

In other words, equal steps would have to be taken to give a voice to anyone who wants to vote or give their suggestion, not just those with access to computers.

This is really no different than letting other people's laziness hold us back from electoral reforms. If you're too backward and ignorant - lazy in other words - to bother to acquire, learn or master a computer then too bad so sad.

That said there's nothing that says we still can't keep and expand a paper system for people who insist on using it. The more avenues by which to expand our use of democracy the better.

tomcat wrote

Some how having to physically go and vote makes you the great democratic superman. LOL! I believe in voting, and I do every election. I just don't think it needs to have some sort of ooooo look at me I'm going down to the polling station... I'm such a democratic heroe!.... LOL!

Its wierd that people who assign such a vaunted near mythical significance to the act of voting are also the most apt to squelch any idea or policy that might lead to more people voting more often. Is it really neccesary that something so precious be as equally rare?

[Remiel]

Lots of older people don't have the internet or even know how to use a computer, so most of the increased voting will be by younger voters. Not that is bad in itself, but it skews the distribution of voting population.

I cannot agree with this argument. I do not support online voting, but to say that it will skew voting in favour of young people is just wrong. Voting is already skewed in favour of older people, who are far more likely to go to the polls to vote.

[Riverwind]

That said there's nothing that says we still can't keep and expand a paper system for people who insist on using it. The more avenues by which to expand our use of democracy the better.

The paper system works and provides a reliable paper trail if the results are disputed. Electronic systems can never provide the same audit trail unless they rely on a odious paper based system designed to control access to the system.

The last point is quite significant since you are incorrectly assuming that an electronic system would be less of the hassle to use. That is not a reasonable assumption if you want a secure system. Even online banking depends on a paper trail to sign up and a live operator assistance to deal with forgetten passwords.

In the end the only people who would be willing to vote under the current system would likely go through the process required to verify their identity before voting electronically. That makes it a dubious strategy for increasing turnout. Especially when we know that laziness is the most common reason for not voting under the current system.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Riverwind

[Sir Bandelot]

This is really no different than letting other people's laziness hold us back from electoral reforms. If you're too backward and ignorant - lazy in other words - to bother to acquire, learn or master a computer then too bad so sad.

A retiree is not going to learn to use a computer or the internet, not necesarily because they are lazy. It has to do with adopting to change and new technology, not laziness. Also some people can't afford a computer. There could be lots of reasons why.

My main reason is still about security. There are concerns about computerized voting, in general, let alone via the internet. Those rumours about the Diebold machines come to mind.

But in any cae, if an internet based system were to be introduced, the same opportunities to vote and give opinions would have to be in place, for people without the internet.

Or, will there be a government program to provide the internet in every citizens home, as part of their right to be a voting citizen?

Duh

[Sir Bandelot]

I cannot agree with this argument. I do not support online voting, but to say that it will skew voting in favour of young people is just wrong. Voting is already skewed in favour of older people, who are far more likely to go to the polls to vote.

Have you got the demographics of people who use the internet? Almost every kid I know does. Not too many retired people I know do.

Bet you a donut

[eyeball]

Especially when we know that laziness is the most common reason for not voting under the current system.

All we know for sure about laziness is that its the most common reason cited for never changing anything. Its a particularily lame argument.

[tango]

I cannot agree with this argument. I do not support online voting, but to say that it will skew voting in favour of young people is just wrong. Voting is already skewed in favour of older people, who are far more likely to go to the polls to vote.

I'm liking this idea more and more all the time!

It's brilliant, really.

We need ways to get more young people involved, and this would do that.

And I agree we need to try to balance the traditional imbalance of older voters.

[Riverwind]

All we know for sure about laziness is that its the most common reason cited for never changing anything. Its a particularily lame argument.

You are the one arguing that we need such as system to "encourage" people to vote. Self motivated people don't need encouragement - they just get off their butts and do it.

Of course you also ignored the main argument that a secure online system must include inconvenient offline verification processes to ensure security. This means it cannot possibly encourage people to vote who are put off by going to a polling booth. It would, at most, replace the existing mail in ballot system.

[CAMP]

You are the one arguing that we need such as system to "encourage" people to vote. Self motivated people don't need encouragement - they just get off their butts and do it.

Of course you also ignored the main argument that a secure online system must include inconvenient offline verification processes to ensure security. This means it cannot possibly encourage people to vote who are put off by going to a polling booth. It would, at most, replace the existing mail in ballot system.

Online or electronic voting is all about convience and the ability of people who are not in their home riding to be able to vote. People such as our soldiers, students, retirees who are down south, business people who are on a trip when an election occurs...etc. There are numberous reasons people who would normally vote just don't.

There are many self motivated people who don't vote, because they are full of apathy about our political system.

There are way more reasons to have online voting and very few that make any sense in my opinion.

[Riverwind]

Online or electronic voting is all about convience and the ability of people who are not in their home riding to be able to vote. People such as our soldiers, students, retirees who are down south, business people who are on a trip when an election occurs...etc.

We have a mail in ballot system for these people. A secure e-voting system would require a similar sign up procedure for each election. People who don't use the mail in system won't use the electronic system.

[tango]

You are the one arguing that we need such as system to "encourage" people to vote. Self motivated people don't need encouragement - they just get off their butts and do it.

Of course you also ignored the main argument that a secure online system must include inconvenient offline verification processes to ensure security. This means it cannot possibly encourage people to vote who are put off by going to a polling booth. It would, at most, replace the existing mail in ballot system.

What verification?

Wouldn't you just use your voting card?

18-24 0.17

25-34 0.13

35-44 0.16

45-54 0.19

55-64 0.17

over 65 0.18

Interesting that the proportions of voters aren't really much different by age, though.

But there are more people in the over 45's these days.

Edited July 1, 2009 by tango

[Topaz]

You are the one arguing that we need such as system to "encourage" people to vote. Self motivated people don't need encouragement - they just get off their butts and do it.

Of course you also ignored the main argument that a secure online system must include inconvenient offline verification processes to ensure security. This means it cannot possibly encourage people to vote who are put off by going to a polling booth. It would, at most, replace the existing mail in ballot system.

I think the 80 Billion deficit or whatever it'll ended by election time should get EVERY young person out and vote because they are ones who will be paying the longest!

[August1991]

We have a mail in ballot system for these people. A secure e-voting system would require a similar sign up procedure for each election. People who don't use the mail in system won't use the electronic system.

I think that we should abolish the mail-in voting system.

If citizens are not resident in Canada, or not prepared to travel to Canada to vote, then they shouldn't have the right to vote. Do people marry by mail?

As to people unable physically to go to a polling station, then we should organize polling booths more conveniently. But I think voters, even those with severe physical difficulty, should make the effort to go to vote.

We can pay our taxes in private but we should vote in public, so that we all know that we have done so.

-----

For those who don't understand my point (or have no experience with authoritarian regimes), take a look at the youtubes of Iranian protesters.

IMHO, Canadians behind a curtain or booth in private should dip their own finger in purple ink and then show the world that they voted. Even people in a wheelchair can do that. It's symbolic, but it matters.

[eyeball]

You are the one arguing that we need such as system to "encourage" people to vote. Self motivated people don't need encouragement - they just get off their butts and do it.

Of course you also ignored the main argument that a secure online system must include inconvenient offline verification processes to ensure security. This means it cannot possibly encourage people to vote who are put off by going to a polling booth. It would, at most, replace the existing mail in ballot system.

What about motivated people who want more ways to vote on more issues?

I'm arguing that we need a new system to save democracy from mediocrity. You on the other hand appear determined to do the opposite.

[Riverwind]

I'm arguing that we need a new system to save democracy from mediocrity. You on the other hand appear determined to do the opposite.

I am saying the mechanics of the voting system have nothing to do with turnout or any other measure which you use to claim that the system is "mediocre".