Chuck U. Farlie Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 If you want to have faith in no God, go ahead, but my senses and the evidence tell me there is a supreme being, you may even have more faith than I in what you believe. Not believing in something that may or not exist but has zero evidence to prove its existence is not a matter of faith. It is simply a lack of belief. My personal stance as an agnostic atheist is that there may or may not be a higher power(s) - but I don't know if there is or isn't. Since I have no reason to believe there is a higher power, I tend to think that one doesn't exist - but I could be wrong. I am more confident that no religion that we have now has it right though. So... in saying that I don't know what is out there, but suspecting nothing - how am I using faith in my beliefs? I am interested in knowing what your sense and evidence has shown you that proves there is a god? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'll tell you what, there is little point in having yet another prove-to-me-God-exists debate. I will submit, however, that this universe is just too fantastically (heheh) amazing not to have a designer. Billions and billions and billions of years does not make something this stupendous. Atheists have faith that it happened by itself. I have faith that God did it. Agnostics, I'm not so sure... cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Doesn't atheism make you feel lonely, small, insignificant, purposeless, directionless, useless? No it doesn't.. Life is to be defined by myself and myself only. If I choose to be a nihilist or a pessimist, then my life will be a testament to this philosophy. I will prescribe my own meaning to my life. I will live this life as it is the only life I have, directing my concerns on earthly matters - living for this world and none other.. However, I am not an atheist, I suppose I am an agnostic existentialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_ Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'll tell you what, there is little point in having yet another prove-to-me-God-exists debate. I will submit, however, that this universe is just too fantastically (heheh) amazing not to have a designer. Billions and billions and billions of years does not make something this stupendous. Atheists have faith that it happened by itself. I have faith that God did it. Agnostics, I'm not so sure...cheers. You're right - there isn't any way to prove to anyone that God or Allah or Zeus or Odin or Ishtar or Osiris or Shiva or any other deity actually exists. So in the absence of objective data, any religious belief is subjective, and cannot be defined as the "truth". This really is what bothered me about the sign - the statement that atheists were "suppressing" the truth, when there in fact is no truth to suppress. In this context, truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and can't be generalized from one person to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Why is atheism seen as such a threat? It is probably because religious people think atheism is a movement rather than people just not believing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stignasty Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 the happiest days of our lives were when we grew up and discovered that there is no supernatural surveillance monitor up there -- then we became free to decide for ourselves how to live happy and fulfilling lives. The ultimate liberation. Feels great, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 You're right - there isn't any way to prove to anyone that God or Allah or Zeus or Odin or Ishtar or Osiris or Shiva or any other deity actually exists. So in the absence of objective data, any religious belief is subjective, and cannot be defined as the "truth". This really is what bothered me about the sign - the statement that atheists were "suppressing" the truth, when there in fact is no truth to suppress. In this context, truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and can't be generalized from one person to another. I must say that the message on the sign was flippant and probably thought up without much care. I've seen signs of all types, and sometimes the author tries to be funny, for example, and he's rather not at all. In this case, atheists are not suppressing truth, perhaps a minister could say they haven't discovered all of the truth or something of that nature, how about there are no atheists in foxholes(sorry, an old one)? I know this life we live is a mystery and it's not made easier by judgmental religious types cramming their opinions down others' throats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I have faith that God did it. Why does he children die of starvation in Africa? Why does he give young and old the pain of cancer? Why would he do nothing when Hitler was putting Jews in ovens? Why does this God sit back and watch as young children get molested? I'm not sure if you have to be more blind to believe in God, or to worship one so sick, twisted and cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I know this life we live is a mystery and it's not made easier by judgmental religious types cramming their opinions down others' throats. Oh, of course non-religious "types" are not judgemental and doesn't force their opinions and LIFESTYLE on others... The sad fact of the matter is, is that people like you can't even formulate a logical understanding of the concept of being "judgemental". Hate to break it to you, but stating that the Bible indicates that homosexuality is a sin is not being "judgemental"--it's simply a statement of fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 and the happiest days of our lives were when we grew up and discovered that there is no supernatural surveillance monitor up there -- then we became free to decide for ourselves how to live happy and fulfilling lives. There's a show on A&E about this kind of person: Intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is probably because religious people think atheism is a movement rather than people just not believing. Why on Earth should it matter if atheists form a club or are you saying its threatening more along the lines of drug use in a certain sector of society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yes, I've heard of the spaghetti monster, and to compare that or a pink unicorn is a perfect example of what others on this thread are claiming, that Christian beliefs tend to be belittled and made fun of by atheists. Comparing the existence of God, an age old enigma (to some), which is rooted in most cultures to the mockery of a spaghetti monster is silly on top of it all.If you want to have faith in no God, go ahead, but my senses and the evidence tell me there is a supreme being, you may even have more faith than I in what you believe. Appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy though. It is not evidence for truth that people have always believed in some form or another. Furthermore, religious tradition and dogma has changed so much, in just the last few centuries even, that it is nearly indistinguishable from earlier traditions. So, were they wrong then or are they wrong now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'll tell you what, there is little point in having yet another prove-to-me-God-exists debate. I will submit, however, that this universe is just too fantastically (heheh) amazing not to have a designer. Billions and billions and billions of years does not make something this stupendous. Atheists have faith that it happened by itself. I have faith that God did it. Agnostics, I'm not so sure...cheers. Since the creator would have to be more amazing than the creation, for having designed and made something so fantastical, would God then be too fantastically amazing not to have a designer Himself? Would that designer then not be so much more amazing as to warrant a further designer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 In this context, truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and can't be generalized from one person to another.Truth by definition is universal. You're playing loose and fast with the definitions if you consider it to be in the eye of the beholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is probably because religious people think atheism is a movement rather than people just not believing.Which is precisely why I believe atheists should stop labeling themselves as such. They should use the term Barack Obama used in his inaugural speech: "non-believers"--the preceding theological understood. Atheist carries a connotation now. People assume all atheists have the same set of "beliefs" because they mistakenly believe it is a belief system. Since, by definition, it is simply a way of saying you don't believe in a specific belief system, it would probably be better if the label is avoided altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Why does he children die of starvation in Africa? Why does he give young and old the pain of cancer? Why would he do nothing when Hitler was putting Jews in ovens? Why does this God sit back and watch as young children get molested? I'm not sure if you have to be more blind to believe in God, or to worship one so sick, twisted and cruel. Furthermore, if all creatures are God's creation and they were not given the free-will that was endowed to man, why must they suffer horribly in nature? This does not sound like the work of a benevolent God, if there is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_ Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Oh, of course non-religious "types" are not judgemental and doesn't force their opinions and LIFESTYLE on others... The sad fact of the matter is, is that people like you can't even formulate a logical understanding of the concept of being "judgemental". Hate to break it to you, but stating that the Bible indicates that homosexuality is a sin is not being "judgemental"--it's simply a statement of fact. We can all pick up a Bible and see the words on the page, so of course it is a statement of fact that the Bible condemns many things. Just because it is written in the Bible, though, doesn't mean it should have meaning for anyone other than a Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 why must they suffer horribly in nature? What about rust? I had to replace a broken U-bolt on my truck the other day and if there is any one thing that indicates there was no thought put into the universe its the fact things rust. Thank God for saws-alls and WD 40 but these seem like really roundabout ways of dealing with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Oh, of course non-religious "types" are not judgemental and doesn't force their opinions and LIFESTYLE on others... The sad fact of the matter is, is that people like you can't even formulate a logical understanding of the concept of being "judgemental". Hate to break it to you, but stating that the Bible indicates that homosexuality is a sin is not being "judgemental"--it's simply a statement of fact. It is a fact that adherence to an arbitrary code of ethics does not represent real morality because a standard set up by superstitious, bronze-age nomads and farmers that matches their beliefs which are uninformed by knowledge and information gathered during the last 2,500 years! Let's begin with SIN - there is no such thing as sin, and it is a useless guide for studying and correcting harmful behaviour. SIN was concocted at a time when it was reasonable to believe that our minds independent of brain function and are not part of a physical causal chain that is influenced by genetics, environment and life experiences. To the contrary, we learn from modern medicine and neuroscience that sexual orientation is influenced by a number of hormonal and genetic factors, and this makes any talk of homosexuality being a sin not only stupid, but also a source of needless harm and suffering for the unfortunate homosexuals who may have grown up brainwashed by this stupid notion, since they had little if any choice about where their sexual orientation would land on the scale in between heterosexuality and homosexuality. The fact is that someone who has a homosexual orientation is not served by trying to live in denial like some of the closeted gay celebrities, politicians and clergy are still doing today. This is the type of situation where the fundamentalists need a boot in the ass and those who think rationally will allow people to live their lives to the best of their abilities, regardless of what their sexual orientation is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpio Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Masturbation = fornication. Seems to me priests should have spanked the monkey more. We may have had less pedophiles then. Edited January 25, 2009 by scorpio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Seems to me priests should have spanked the monkey more. We may have had less pedophiles then. Lol, there are pedophiles everywhere in every segment of society. There are far more abuses in the public school system but it's the Church that get all the press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1765 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Comparing the existence of God, an age old enigma (to some), which is rooted in most cultures to the mockery of a spaghetti monster is silly on top of it all. Why do you feel the need to make fun of people who believe in the flying spaghetti monster?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpio Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Lol, there are pedophiles everywhere in every segment of society. There are far more abuses in the public school system but it's the Church that get all the press. More abuses in the school system? Don't think so. The Catholic Church in the States has handed over around $850,000,000.00 from lawsuits from 1997 to present and 6 other diocese had to declare bankrupcy. This is not including Canada or the rest of the world, where lawsuits are usually settled out of court with a gag order. I know because my wife sued, won, but was muzzled over her 6 figure payout. source. Can you honestly provide a site that is even close within the school system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Atheism, does not make me lonely. It does not make me any less important, insignificant, purposeless, and any one of you. Life is what you make it. I can make a life without a god. This means I am in control of my life. Therefore responsible for my actions to others lies in me and only me. The thing I have always been saying, when it comes to a religion/god .. is beleive in yourself, and you won't need to beleive in anything else. The power and energy come from within you.. not without. I know people who are religious, and very very lonely. God may be able to embrace, but the embrace we are looking for is from another human being. Pliney Religion once it becomes dogma and ritual is no longer religion and that is true of atheism as well but both claim truth. Acceptance of any belief system does not mean truth has been found. It simply means you are done looking. Why would you be done looking? The truth is a life journey, and does not stop happening, when you stop looking, you just may end up missing the journey. I think people see Atheism as a threat to organized religion. Athiesm is anything but organized, or religious. For the most part I see the church as a threat to free thinking. You are told what to believe. You are told when to pray, you are told to do this and that and not sin. You are being TOLD what to do.However it is a mold I would love to break. Even when one sins all they want, they just need to repent on the death bed, or make a confession so God takes the responsibility away from you and puts it on himself. Could this be part of the appeal for religion? No matter what you do wrong, you can say a few words and absolve yourself of responsibility. This creates dangerous ground for some to do real evil things, and make a confession, and everything is gold. I have always looked at religion from the outside. It simply does not make sense to me. Atheists like most people have a sense of morality, right and wrong. We have the same basic values as most organized religion followers. Live and let live. If god works for you .. then keep at it. However, only yourself can be your saviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Which is precisely why I believe atheists should stop labeling themselves as such. They should use the term Barack Obama used in his inaugural speech: "non-believers"--the preceding theological understood. Atheist carries a connotation now. People assume all atheists have the same set of "beliefs" because they mistakenly believe it is a belief system. Since, by definition, it is simply a way of saying you don't believe in a specific belief system, it would probably be better if the label is avoided altogether. I'll proudly call myself an atheist until the day I die. It's a good label, and just because a pack semi-literate idiots don't know what the word means is not my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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