How low can Israeli supporters sink

[Ontario Loyalist]

I don't see how the Jews are to blame for violence considering the Nazi's tried to exterminate them and now they fight everyday for their own existence! But God forbid they defend themselves!

Um.... when they tested the first A-Bomb, there was speculation that it might cause a chain reaction that wouldn't stop--but it was tested anyway because they wanted to drop it on Germany... Whatever the case, the Nazis weren't "exterminating" the Jews working on the bomb, so... Also, nuclear weapons are not justified, even for "self-defense"...

[Ontario Loyalist]

This is me laughing at your complete lack of credibility.

Consider yourself completely and publicly pantsed, fool.

Honestly, they day I start caring whether something like you thinks I'm credible, I may as well go kill myself; but seeing that that will never happen...

[M.Dancer]

Honestly, they day I start caring whether something like you thinks I'm credible, I may as well go kill myself; but seeing that that will never happen...

The issue isn't whether you care or not that more than one person here (angus, Guyser, myself) feels you have no credibility, that is a given. The issue is whether you are able to provide back up to your claims.

And the fact is, those who don't attempt toback up their claims have no credibility...allow me to quote.

RESEARCH YOUR POST

If you are stating a fact, be prepared to back it up with some official sources (websites, links etc). It is also important to structure your post in a way that everyone can understand. That means writing complete sentences and paragraphs with the appropriate grammar. If for some reason, you enjoy writing long confusing sentences and paragraphs riddled with poor grammar and spelling mistakes, your post, and therefore your opinions, will likely be discarded. Therefore, it is in your best interest to make sure that your post includes sufficient sources and contains a well-researched and well-organized argument.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.p...E=01&HID=17

[AngusThermopyle]

I'm not very impressed by your lack of ability when it comes to reading comprehension. So much strife is based on willful or ignorant misunderstandings of the other sides' argument.

Thats nice.

I'm not very impressed either by your apparent advanced state of dementia, however you can rest assured that I wont lose any sleep over it.

[betsy]

The topic asks: "how low can Israeli supproters sink."

Funny how the numerous incidents cited in some media only demonstrates the kind of barbarism Israel had to endure. These scums have been imported and now are scattered all over the world.

I would like to think the author of this topic made a typo error. He must be asking about the pro-Palestines.

How come anti-Israelis are so prone to violence? Even when they live smack in the middle of a civilized society. This is nothing new. We've seen these type of violent protests before - ALWAYS FROM THE SAME TYPE OF PEOPLE. The Anti-Israelis. The anti-USA. The anti-semites.

-------------------

"People who have been at the pro-and anti-Israel demonstrations in London have been producing some absolutely horrifying descriptions and images.

On Harry’s Place pictures (such as the one here from Indymedia) capture the violence and thuggery of the left/Islamist alliance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-...gly-indeed.html

"Tens of thousands of demonstrators marched in cities across Europe and the Middle East on Saturday to protest against Israel's offensive in Gaza, with sporadic clashes with police as some rallies turned

violent. "

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054252.html

"The demonstration calling for an immediate end to the Israeli attacks was the biggest of at least 18 organised across the country.

It saw clashes outside the Israeli Embassy between protesters and police wearing riot gear.

Police made several arrests, claiming protesters made repeated attempts to break through the barriers and throw missiles outside the embassy in south Kensington."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/P...115196923?f=rss

"Around 500 people who had gathered for a legal demonstration in support of Israel outside the Norwegian parliament were attacked Thursday evening by some 1,000 pro-Palestinians, police told AFP. "Almost immediately there was a large degree of aggression from the counter-demonstrators," Johan Fredriksen of the Oslo police said late Thursday.

The anti-Israel demonstrators threw Molotov cocktails, rocks and eggs, and burned Israeli flags, he said. They also threw fireworks into the crowd and at police, who responded by blanketing a large swath of downtown Oslo with tear gas. Those arrested were reportedly mainly pro-Palestinian demonstrators aged between 16 and 20.

Windows were smashed and other property damaged along Oslo's main Karl Johan shopping street. According to media reports the clashes were the worst in the Norwegian capital in more than 20 years."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3653467,00.html

[betsy]

Well, that statement is certainly on par with Drea's suggestion that Israel be nuked.

Either way, it gets finished, if that is the end goal.

I don't think so. I don't side with the lunatic VIOLENT bullies. (See my cites above that back up my comment). My decision is not through knee-jerk reaction strictly motivated by hate. I give my sound reason why I've made this decision. I don't think I ramble nonsense and spout off incoherent idiotic remarks.

My view is objective and simply practical. You just don't like what I'm saying - that's all.

Even your response right now is quite lame. You know I'm right.

It's so simple to see why I believe Israel. Just take a look at what's happening all over the world.....whenever these people have their protests. Israel is right. They can't keep putting up with these type of loonies. Why should they?

With Hamas gone, the world will be better for both Israel and Palestine.

Hamas is using its own people as shields. So tell me, why do you keep supporting something like Hamas?

Edited January 14, 2009 by betsy

[Oleg Bach]

I don't think so. I don't side with the lunatic VIOLENT bullies. (See my cites above that back up my comment). My decision is not through knee-jerk reaction strictly motivated by hate. I give my sound reason why I've made this decision. I don't think I ramble nonsense and spout off incoherent idiotic remarks.

My view is objective and simply practical. You just don't like what I'm saying - that's all.

Even your response right now is quite lame. You know I'm right.

It's so simple to see why I believe Israel. Just take a look at what's happening all over the world.....whenever these people have their protests. Israel is right. They can't keep putting up with these type of loonies. Why should they?

With Hamas gone, the world will be better for both Israel and Palestine.

Hamas is using its own people as shields. So tell me, why do you keep supporting something like Hamas?

Palistsine would not suck up to Hamas - If Israel give to Palistine what Hamas does - it's economical and a human rights issue ...nothing to do with Muslim vs. Jew. Sure Palistine would be better off without these gangsters called Hamas - and Israel would be better off with out their gangster class..That's the bottom line - to damned punkish elite gangs battling it out for turf with good Israelis and Palistinians caught in the cross fire! Israel has been run by real tough and ruthless gangsters for the last 30 years - and so has Palistine....Both sides have to have their houses cleaned --- As Bush leaves office - this counterparts in Israel should be ousted ----FREEDOM FOR ISREAL AND FREEDOM FOR PALISTINE...damn the murderous crooks who suck the blood of the people - who kill for profit -

[bush_cheney2004]

....As Bush leaves office - this counterparts in Israel should be ousted ----FREEDOM FOR ISREAL AND FREEDOM FOR PALISTINE...damn the murderous crooks who suck the blood of the people - who kill for profit -

Nah.....that's what you guys said the last time Bush left office.....16 years ago.

Blood is a renewable resource....oil...not so much!

[Oleg Bach]

Nah.....that's what you guys said the last time Bush left office.....16 years ago.

Blood is a renewable resource....oil...not so much!

My dear and respect friend, let me be bold and truthful. Israel is run by the *ish Mafia...and as far as Palistine - about 12 years ago - a deal for casinos was cut by non-other than our Canadian natives - most don't remember .....kick back money was sent to Sharon - and the other half of the bribe went to old blue lips - you know that scraf wearing former leader of Palistine - the old gay guy....what I am saying is that little occurances like this are over looked and blotted out - Crimminals run the place - by they way the gambling house was destroyed very soon after the deal soured. As for you and the BLOOD thing - you just love drama and playing they part of the tough guy...I guess you have to to fit in with the boys - but I know who you are...and you are not on of them...It's not "blood for oil" - It's just good old fashioned blood money and common robbery - You want something - you kill to get it - not much has changed in the last thousand years - perhaps it's time to change - Yes we can!

[Ontario Loyalist]

The issue isn't whether you care or not that more than one person here (angus, Guyser, myself) feels you have no credibility, that is a given. The issue is whether you are able to provide back up to your claims.

And the fact is, those who don't attempt toback up their claims have no credibility...allow me to quote.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.p...E=01&HID=17

No, I think the issue is whether or not it's worth wasting my time to track down something one your insistance... Given what you are, and the typical manner in which you post, it simply isn't worth the effort. If you want to sit there and act as though you didn't make the claim and paint me as the guilty party here, then that just speaks again to what kind of person you are...

To refresh your memory, it was during a discussion about fundraising efforts by the Jewish community in Canada and the HUGE signs that are posted in front of synagogues to raise money for a foereign country's military... you said something to the effect of not noticing them on your way to church... so, go find it yourself...

[AngusThermopyle]

you said something to the effect of not noticing them on your way to church... so, go find it yourself...

I do believe that its already been pointed out to you that after making a statement the onus to prove such a statement is on you, not some other.

Why should someone else have to prove you right/wrong if you cannot do so yourself?

Your refusal to back up your statement merely confirms that you are spouting mindless drivel and as such are to be disregarded as are some others around here who employ similar tactics.

[AngusThermopyle]

My dear and respect friend, let me be bold and truthful. Israel is run by the *ish Mafia...and as far as Palistine - about 12 years ago - a deal for casinos was cut by non-other than our Canadian natives - most don't remember .....kick back money was sent to Sharon - and the other half of the bribe went to old blue lips - you know that scraf wearing former leader of Palistine - the old gay guy

Blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda, as usual.

I thought you were trying to delete yourself and head for the nether regions.

What happened?

[Oleg Bach]

Let's clearify the Christ issue in regards to the Jews - It was the empire - the state - ROME that executed the rightful King of Judea...sure there were some semites who were pissed off at Jesus - the rightful heir to crown land - they did not want the old Davidic line - or should I say the Bathsheeba line to re-claim the occupied lands...It was the state - ROME that controled the police force - the army - the judicary in old Judea --- it was the STATE - that had total power..who executed Jesus ---they were in TOTAL CONTROL----So take it up with the Vatican on who murdered an innocent man and rightful good king...they know the truth..the Jews might be pesky at times but they can not be held resondible for the murder - I rest my case!

[M.Dancer]

No, I think the issue is whether or not it's worth wasting my time to track down something one your insistance... Given what you are, and the typical manner in which you post, it simply isn't worth the effort. If you want to sit there and act as though you didn't make the claim and paint me as the guilty party here, then that just speaks again to what kind of person you are...

To refresh your memory, it was during a discussion about fundraising efforts by the Jewish community in Canada and the HUGE signs that are posted in front of synagogues to raise money for a foereign country's military... you said something to the effect of not noticing them on your way to church... so, go find it yourself...

j

Dude, have a modicum of decency and dignity. You have been publickly pantsed and you a dirtied your underwear. You are now a subject of public ridicule, Congratulations on your epic fail...

[Argus]

Hamas , pamas... I just don't want to see anymore children (1 dead Isreali soldier = 250 dead Palestinian children) die.

If it takes a nuking Isreal to stop it, so be it.

Because there are no children in Israel - just Jews, eh Drea?

[Argus]

This isn't anti-semitism. This is anti-Israel

Not everyone who is anti-Israel is an anti-Semite.

Every anti-Semite is anti-israel, however. There was an anti-Israel demo the other day in Toronto where the KKK joined in along with their swastikas. The others were apparently quite content to have them along for the ride. Anyone who hates Israel - for whatever reason - is all part of the same club. And many of those who hate Israel - let's face it - hate Jews as well.

[Argus]

Isreal has no claim on that land. Just like the Chinese have no claim on North America simply because their anscestors crossed the Bering strait.

I think their claim to the land is because they were born and raised on it, along with their parents, and in all likelihood, their grandparents and theirs. It doesn't really matter if you disagree with the United Nations decision. It made it, and Israel was legally established.

I am not anit-jew, just anti-Isreal.

I suspect this is not true.

But Isrealis would much rather kill children for the next 1,000 years than make concessions to the people they invaded so few decades ago.

Only a few of the Palestinians were actually alive back then, you know. And the smart ones stayed in Isreal, were not slaughtered, and now have democratic rights and representation in the Knesset. All the Jews were expelled from Arab lands, though. I suppose to your way of thinking they don't belong in Israel - which took them in - either.

Look at the goddamn pictures, see for yourself ... of course looking at Palestinian babies buried in rubble means about as much to you as a dead fly in your kitchen.

This is the absolute essence of the argument against Israel. It is the focus of why so many leftists (notoriously weak-minded people) hate Israel. They see constant video and pictures of the killing there and are horrified.

Worse goes on routinely in other countries, but they don't see constant videos and pictures of that, so they seem to feel, emotionally, that aside from Israel, all the world is in peace and harmony, and Israel is thus the most evil place in existence. I have a feeling Drea would rather go barefoot than wear a shoe made in Israel, but never gives a second thought to her Chinese shoes - and toaster. It never enters her mind that life is worse in many other parts of the world because she doesn't seek out video and pictures of those to horrify herself with. This is the immaturity, almost childishness, of the Leftists who rant about Israel. From the safety of ignorance, never having known or imagined want or need or danger, they are horrified by the single example of mass violence they are routinely exposed to.

[KeyStone]

Not everyone who is anti-Israel is an anti-Semite.

Every anti-Semite is anti-israel, however. There was an anti-Israel demo the other day in Toronto where the KKK joined in along with their swastikas. The others were apparently quite content to have them along for the ride. Anyone who hates Israel - for whatever reason - is all part of the same club. And many of those who hate Israel - let's face it - hate Jews as well.

1) I haven't seen any evidence of KKK supporters in the rally in Toronto.

2) KKK hates Muslims more than they hate Jews, so it seems odd that they would be there.

3) If they were there, I wouldn't put it past the rabid defenders of Israel and child murder to dress up in KKK to undermine the message of the protest.

[M.Dancer]

2) KKK hates Muslims more than they hate Jews, so it seems odd that they would be there.

Yet, it is so...

Experts say Canada's extreme right has been largely in disarray since the 1994 collapse of the Heritage Front, a Toronto-based white supremacist group that united the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations and a U.S. criminal terrorist group called The Order.

But such hate groups have found a common cause recently with Muslim extremists in the Arab world who have been promoting Jewish conspiracy theories and attempting to deny the legitimacy of Israel, experts say.

"The threat from the far right has not disappeared, though it's been overshadowed by the threat from Islamism and Arabism," said Manuel Prutschi of the Canadian Jewish Congress. "And indeed, in some ways, they have re-energized each other. It's a bizarre alliance, but nonetheless there it is."

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispat...ves/000237.html

[KeyStone]

I think their claim to the land is because they were born and raised on it, along with their parents, and in all likelihood, their grandparents and theirs. It doesn't really matter if you disagree with the United Nations decision. It made it, and Israel was legally established.

I see. So the UN is always right? I guess that must be why Israel never breaks a UN resolution.

You can't have it both ways. If you are going to use the UN for justification, then you also need to adhere to what the UN says.

Only a few of the Palestinians were actually alive back then, you know. And the smart ones stayed in Isreal, were not slaughtered, and now have democratic rights and representation in the Knesset.

And who exactly were the smart ones? It's not as if they had a choice.

Most were evicted by force of arms. Those that refused ended up like the town of Deir Yassin.

Many Israelis were against these forced expulsions, but they were overruled by the zealots.

Regardless, Israelis have treated Arab residents, better than Arabs have treated Jews.

I don't believe that Arabs need to be welcomed back into Israel with compensation. I think the Arab countries that expelled the Jews and/or persecuted them should make it up to them.

Worse goes on routinely in other countries, but they don't see constant videos and pictures of that, so they seem to feel, emotionally, that aside from Israel, all the world is in peace and harmony, and Israel is thus the most evil place in existence.

While it's a fun and challenging game to try to blame all criticism of Israel on anti-semitism, it just isn't accurate.

One of the key differences, and the reason why Israel gets more attention is the fact that Israel is committing these atrocities outside of their own borders. Do atrocities exist within Somalia, Darfur, Ivory Coast, Zimbabwe etc Of course, but if any of these countries were invaded by a foreign entity, particularly one that routinely receives military aid from the US and others - you can be certain that it would receive some attention - just as Ostetia received attention during that occupation.

[Black Dog]

WestViking

How can one consider an election democratic when the opposing parties have armed supporters milling about? They were not keeping the peace; they were barely avoiding armed conflict.

Sounds like the much ballyhooed elections in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Less than two years ago, Fattah tried to overturn the Hamas majority in Gaza by force of arms.

With the support and blessing of Israel and the U.S.

Hamas terrorists live, eat and sleep amongst the Palestinians.

Well, they are Palestinians. Where should they hang out?

We have dozens of Palestinian supporters demonstrating in our streets. I have some questions for them: “Why are you here? Why did you leave anarchy and terrorism to live in Canada? We are at war with terrorists and our soldiers are dying in a battle to preserve the peace and order you find so attractive. Do you not understand that supporting terrorists is treason? Do you understand that you cannot engage in anti-Semitism here, that to do so is against our laws? Are you here to build a better life or to try to drag us into your amoral, mindless strife and senseless murders?”

Maybe they just don't like the idea of their friends and family back home getting blowed up?

...

Thing is, I am pretty much indifferent towards Hamas' plight. They brought it upon themselves. Unfortunately, Israel's response is unlikely to have a conclusive outcome (unless folks like jbg get their way and they just kill everyone there) and the suffering will continue. And while Hamas is a despicable organization, the broader conflict goes back further than the first Hamas rocket attack. And in that broader conflict, Israel looks rather less rosy. With that in mind, it's hard to have much sympathy for people who's idea of creating a better life for themselves after the horrors of the Holocaust were to essentially boot others off land they had occupied for centuries. They should just bulldoze every holy site in the place and build a Starbucks on top in hopes all the idiots will cease using their prehistoric beliefs as a platform for conflict.

[jbg]

Thing is, I am pretty much indifferent towards Hamas' plight. They brought it upon themselves. Unfortunately, Israel's response is unlikely to have a conclusive outcome (unless folks like jbg get their way and they just kill everyone there)....

That is not what I said. Sherman did not kill all Confederates; just enough to convince the rest that the Union meant business.

[Black Dog]

That is not what I said. Sherman did not kill all Confederates; just enough to convince the rest that the Union meant business.

Ah so you're merely a homicidal maniac as opposed to a genocidal one. Gotcha.

Of course, it's worth mentioning that terrorism (because that's really what you're advocating when you talk of total war) is not an effective means of creating a decisive outcome. The Axis Powers' lost the war primarily because they no longer had the material capacity to continue the fight. Ditto the Confederate Army. War are won first and foremost on the ground, not between the ears.

[segnosaur]

As for the lies that you spread, about Rachel Corrie, it sickens me.

It's an excellent example of how the sick disgusting Israelis try to dominate the blogosphere with an army of trained morons such as yourself.

I have no connection to the state of Israel. I am not jewish (I am atheist). Yet I feel that Rachel Corrie was in the wrong here.

Lie, lie and lie some more. And useful idiots such as yourself soak it up.

Small little note: The term 'useful idiots' was applied by supporters of the former Soviet government to those people in the west who were naive in supporting actions by the communist block and/or criticizing the west. Given that definition, the term 'useful idiot' applies more to Rachel Corrie than to people who happen to support israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

Here are some pictures of Rachel Corrie in front of the bulldozer.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

1) She is standing up, not lying down.

2) She is wearing a bright orange jacket.

3) She has a megaphone.

Well, first of all, your source is a pro-Palistinian/anti-Israeli web site. That should make you at least a little skeptical about what they are presenting.

Ok, lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say that these pictures are true... the problem is, they are still pictures. Yes, at one point I'm sure she was standing up... but there is nothing to say that she was standing at the time she was run over. In fact, the last picture where she was showing standing was taken between 3 and 4pm, and she wasn't run over until 45 minutes later.

[segnosaur]

Meanwhile, the rest of the world tried to help Fatah, given that they were trying to prevent Hamas from launching rockets and demanding that Hamas disarm. Glad to see that you appreciate their efforts.

Rocket attacks had been going on for quite some time. Whatever Fatah and the rest of the world were doing, it was not stopping said attacks.

So tell me, just how long should Israel have allowed the rocket attacks to continue before taking action? A month? A year? A decade?

Really, No one said a word? Perhaps you can explain to me why Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization then.

Why not use Google and do a search for 'UN condemns Hamas'. It only returns 752,00 matches. I guess that's a free pass?

You know, it may be a little inaccurate to say the 'whole world' was silent regarding rocket attacks by Hamas, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else was willing to actually do anything useful to stop such attacks.

So you are saying Israel was being untreated unfairly, and that this latest military action was their last resort.

Hmm, that's kind of how the Palestinians justify launching rockets at Israel since they don't seem to pay attention to anything else.

Except for the fact that Israel HAS been paying attention to Palestinan concerns... they negotiated with the PLO, they have dealt with the authorities in the west bank...

Those responsible for launching the rockets have as their goal the destruction if Israel. Kind of hard to negotiate around that. "Ok, you can wipe us out, but only on every second week."

Or perhaps they are scared. Fatah stood up to Hamas. Not all Palestinians want to see Israel destroyed but many do.

I'll give you three guesses why.

How about:

- Brainwashing by Palestinian authorities (remember, this is an area that regularly had TV shows with anti-Israeli puppet characters)

- Attempts by leaders in Palestine and various Arab states to use the Israeli situation to deflect criticism from their own problems

- Religous idiocy

Were those the 3 you were looking for?

You seem to have Palestinians confused with the Borg. They do not have a collective mind. Even if 99.9% of them agree with the peace proposal, there will always be a few fathers who have lost sons, or a few sons who have lost mothers, who will want revenge. That is the only thing that drives them.

The difference is, in a western-style democracy (such as Israel), anyone who has the 'drive' to exact revenge through violence will likely be marginalized by society, and quite possibly arrested by the government. In the Gaza strip, those who want violence (e.g. Hamas) are not only NOT margianalized, they enjoy widespread support.

My point is that the IDF is really just as much of a terrorist organization as Hamas. The only difference is that the IDF is far more effective at killing children and civilians.

The fact that you cannot understand the difference between a group which attempts to minimize civilian deaths (Israel, who sometimes even drops leaflets warning about upcoming attacks) and one that actually WANTS to cause civilian deaths is rather, ahem, disturbing.