Public service unions....

ironstone · December 16, 2008

Don't you wish public service union leaders in this country could stop being so damn greedy?Postal workers on strike,bus drivers here in Ottawa on strike.When will someone stand up and shout "ENOUGH!"?On the whole,public servants have it better than their counterparts in the private sector....by a good margin.Hgher pay,substancially more time off,better benefits and even fewer hours worked.And we can't forget the very generous pension plan too.Why can't they be content with what they have already?It's especially galling for them to keep making unreasonable demands when Canada and the rest of the world are entering a time of economic uncertainty.Will there ever be someone on the government side with enough balls to stand up to them instead of caving in time and time again?

We need a Margaret Thatcher type,now there was a leader to inspire!

Topaz · December 16, 2008

The issue is the new short-term disability system by Canada Post, which I think replaced sick leave and family related leave that allows a private insurer the right to allow sick leave to that worker or to denial them. They aren't asking alot of wages,2.5 the first two years and 2.75 the third and fourth. I would think that this industry is slowly on it way out because of the internet.

Smallc · December 17, 2008

I would think that this industry is slowly on it way out because of the internet.

Nope, mail increases every year.

blueblood · December 17, 2008

Nope, mail increases every year.

Delivering of parcels yes, letters, not so much.

Smallc · December 17, 2008

Delivering of parcels yes, letters, not so much.

Doesn't really matter. Canada post hauls more mail every year. Also, many letters that are official in nature have to go in the mail. E mail just won't do.

Argus · December 17, 2008

Don't you wish public service union leaders in this country could stop being so damn greedy?Postal workers on strike,bus drivers here in Ottawa on strike.When will someone stand up and shout "ENOUGH!"?On the whole,public servants have it better than their counterparts in the private sector....by a good margin.Hgher pay,substancially more time off,better benefits and even fewer hours worked.And we can't forget the very generous pension plan too.Why can't they be content with what they have already?It's especially galling for them to keep making unreasonable demands when Canada and the rest of the world are entering a time of economic uncertainty.

I don't think the posties' demands are unreasonable. They're not asking for big raises or increased benefits. They're fighting against Canada Post - a profitable entity - which wants to drastically cut back on their sick leave.

The bus drivers, on the other hand, are being unreasonable, but taking advantage of the fact Ottawa has had local governments for years which could only hope, pray and dream to rise to a level of mere incompetence.

The drivers union was given the right to decide on scheduling for drivers some time back. No other bus company in the world, so far as I'm aware, has given this right to its employees. For good reason. Anyway, the current government is trying to take that back because of how the union has been abusing it, and naturally the bus union is refusing. I don't think this strike is going to be settled at all. When parliament resumes at the end of January they will have to be legislated back to work. It really sucks to not have a car in Ottawa today. And if you work downtown it sucks anyway, especially if you don't have a regular parking space.

Fortunately, I don't work downtown, do have a car, and can walk to work anyway.

Argus · December 17, 2008

Doesn't really matter. Canada post hauls more mail every year. Also, many letters that are official in nature have to go in the mail. E mail just won't do.

My agency alone sends out millions of pieces of mail every year.

OddSox · December 17, 2008

I don't think the posties' demands are unreasonable. They're not asking for big raises or increased benefits. They're fighting against Canada Post - a profitable entity - which wants to drastically cut back on their sick leave.

Um, they have been offered a raise of more than 10% at a time when inflation is nearing zero and we are being warned about deflation. How many non-union employees are getting a raise at all these days? A pay cut is more likely unless it is a layoff.

Their existing sick leave program is ridiculous - an employee can bank unused sick days indefinitely and can potentially book off sick for a year or more at full pay before retirement.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...cb-dd73a6e9d178

The current program allows for 15 days of paid sick leave and five days of family-related leave for each year an employee works at the company. The days can accumulate year after year, so the longer you work at the company, the more days you are able to accumulate.
The company is proposing a short-term disability program, which would reduce the number of paid leave days to seven per year, and after that would pay 70 per cent of an employee's salary for up to 30 weeks, regardless of how long they have worked for the company.

madmax · December 17, 2008

I don't think the posties' demands are unreasonable. They're not asking for big raises or increased benefits. They're fighting against Canada Post - a profitable entity - which wants to drastically cut back on their sick leave.

Why should they receive a raise?

M.Dancer · December 17, 2008

Why should they receive a raise?

They should have wage parity with bike messangers at very least...

Wild Bill · December 17, 2008

One thing that never seems to get mentioned is that public sector unions usually are in a monopolistic position of which private sector unions could only dream!

If Ford is on strike I can go look at a Chev. What do I do if I need a service that is ONLY handled by a public sector agency?

There are no private buses covering a city's downtown. Still, if you're rich enough I suppose there are enough cabs. What about getting a passport or driver's licence if they're on strike?

By my lights, any government service that is in a protected monopoly should be declared an essential service and lose the right to strike. It's not fair to the public to let them have it 'both ways'.

madmax · December 17, 2008

How many non-union employees are getting a raise at all these days? A pay cut is more likely unless it is a layoff.

It doesn't matter whether unionized or not. Paycuts are what is on the table. 25% being the norm, and the elimination of benefits and pension.

There are some non unionized and unionized places bucking this trend.

On the whole, many new companies, the wages are between $9 and $14 with no benefits or pensions. Wages in my region are falling faster then you can say jack the bear.

However, what people might be overlooking is what casual and temp posties receive. I have no idea if these people are taken into account, or are left on the outside looking in.

I know a number of companies with similar numbers to these.. who pay their core 200 workers between $14-$16 and the other 800 workers get $10-$13.30 for the same work, with no benefits or holiday pay.

Private sector wages in Ontario, from what i am seeing are dropping from 30% to 50% for anyone laid off in the past year. $20,000 to $30,000 is what you are looking at, if you can get a job that is full time.

People with University and managerial skills in pharma....

well .... I don't consider this high paying

Title: Quality control manager - pharmaceutical products (NOC: 0212)
Terms of Employment: Permanent, Full Time, Overtime, Day

Salary: $45,000.00 to $48,000.00 Yearly for 44 hours per week

Anticipated Start Date: As soon as possible

Location: Brantford, Ontario (1 vacancy)

Skill Requirements:

Education: Completion of university

Must have previous managerial experience in the medical/pharmaceutical industry

Pharma companies are not in economic hardship. But wages are down.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Public Sector face a minimum 30% pay cut or be threatened with one in the future. Same for contract or any other government position.

I think the Senate should have their wages rolled back to under $60,000.

I am not suggesting that the posties shouldn't be asking for an increase, I am suggesting that the entire public sector wake up and look at what is happening in the private sector in Ontario which employs more people and provides more tax revenue then any other province.

Not everywhere has Fort McMurray wages

Renegade · December 17, 2008

One thing that never seems to get mentioned is that public sector unions usually are in a monopolistic position of which private sector unions could only dream!
If Ford is on strike I can go look at a Chev. What do I do if I need a service that is ONLY handled by a public sector agency?

There are no private buses covering a city's downtown. Still, if you're rich enough I suppose there are enough cabs. What about getting a passport or driver's licence if they're on strike?

By my lights, any government service that is in a protected monopoly should be declared an essential service and lose the right to strike. It's not fair to the public to let them have it 'both ways'.

Public employees enjoy a significant advantage over private. They enjoy about a 25% premium in total compensatoin over private. They also have many intangible benefits such as job security which does not exist in the private sector. Why should we as taxpayers have to pay the price.

Even if public sectors were delcared essential, they would have the ability to resort to arbitration to set wages. The wage increases set by arbitration do nothing to address the disparity. IMV, public sector should not have the right to strike. They have the right to quit. Their wages should be set by comparison to private sector equivalent salaries.

madmax · December 17, 2008

Don't you wish public service union leaders in this country could stop being so damn greedy?

Greed might be the position of the post office, particularly if it is making alot of profit, and wants to put the squeeze on its workers to make more profit.

Renegade · December 17, 2008

Greed might be the position of the post office, particularly if it is making alot of profit, and wants to put the squeeze on its workers to make more profit.

There is nothing wrong with an enterprise squeezing labour costs, what is an issue is that Canada Post generates profits primarily because it is a monopoly.

madmax · December 17, 2008

Even if public sectors were delcared essential, they would have the ability to resort to arbitration to set wages. The wage increases set by arbitration do nothing to address the disparity. IMV, public sector should not have the right to strike.

I believe that the public sector should maintain its right to strike.

They have the right to quit. Their wages should be set by comparison to private sector equivalent salaries.

The above is part of the status quo. Everyone already has the right to quit. Should your way prevail, the above happens in an arbitration process and the postal company would have to provide the argument regarding wages.

I have yet to see anyone jump up and down for a strike. Especially when a strike occurs, after they are resolved, it teaches the participants to avoid it, as few ever come out winners in the end.

People need to respect what the PSW does for us, and at the same time, when a strike occurs it can generate 3 Public relations effects. Support, Apathy or Hatred of the unions/company involved.

The Casino workers were making $14 an hour and fought off attempts by the OLG to bring in temp workers and split shifts. Come in for 4 hours, go home for 2 hours and come back for 4 hours more.

Perhaps some arbitrator would have suggested that this is a great idea. But for someone who drives an hour to work, it probably isn't the best thing for him and his family.

The strike gained them their 10% raise over 3 years, and the elimination of temp agency workers and the split shifts. The Union had public support and lots of it during their time off. Unfortuneately the time that they were off, cost them alot of money, money many desperately needed. The Casino also lost lots in revenue, and so did the cities that get money from the Casino.

Putting choices in the hands of Arbitrators is not the best choice I can think of.

Its to ...... arbitrary

The Casino overplayed its hand and lost.

Moonbox · December 17, 2008

Yeah it really comes down to being reasonable. The Public, by and large, will support a union it feels is asking for something reasonable.

Casino works fighting temps and split shifts is a pretty reasonable dispute.

Postal workers making well above average wages, however, while also demanding to be able to bank an overly generous number of sick days per year, is ludicrous.

This is the exact same sort of garbage that has the Big Three at their knees right now. As a taxpayer, we should not be supporting a culture of entitlement in our over paid public service providers.

M.Dancer · December 17, 2008

Postal workers making well above average wages, however, while also demanding to be able to bank an overly generous number of sick days per year, is ludicrous.

I think the whole consept of banking what is in effect an insurance is ludicrous. If you son't get sick, thank the lord. If you call in sick and are seen at the ball game, thank a lawyer.

Renegade · December 17, 2008

I believe that the public sector should maintain its right to strike.

Why?

The above is part of the status quo. Everyone already has the right to quit. Should your way prevail, the above happens in an arbitration process and the postal company would have to provide the argument regarding wages.
...

Putting choices in the hands of Arbitrators is not the best choice I can think of.

Its to ...... arbitrary

Perhaps you misunderstand my position. I do NOT think arbitration is a particularly great process.

Goat Boy© · December 17, 2008

Nope, mail increases every year.

Yeah. Junk mail, flyers & and political propaganda. Why can't the environmentalists go after that? I mean it goes straight from the mailbox to the recycling bin, why bother cutting down the tree in the first place?

Goat Boy© · December 17, 2008

They should have wage parity with bike messangers at very least...

As far as I know they are well above.

Goat Boy© · December 17, 2008

One thing that never seems to get mentioned is that public sector unions usually are in a monopolistic position of which private sector unions could only dream!
If Ford is on strike I can go look at a Chev. What do I do if I need a service that is ONLY handled by a public sector agency?

There are no private buses covering a city's downtown. Still, if you're rich enough I suppose there are enough cabs. What about getting a passport or driver's licence if they're on strike?

By my lights, any government service that is in a protected monopoly should be declared an essential service and lose the right to strike. It's not fair to the public to let them have it 'both ways'.

Especially since private sector unions like airline ground handling give up the right to strike.

Goat Boy© · December 17, 2008

This is the exact same sort of garbage that has the Big Three at their knees right now. As a taxpayer, we should not be supporting a culture of entitlement in our over paid public service providers.

You can apply this argument to the entire government. All of it.

OddSox · December 17, 2008

You can apply this argument to the entire government. All of it.

If government was a business like the automakers, they would be in the same pickle and for most of the same reasons. Unfortunately, government doesn't seem to be able to go bankrupt...

White Doors · December 17, 2008

If government was a business like the automakers, they would be in the same pickle and for most of the same reasons. Unfortunately, government doesn't seem to be able to go bankrupt...

Iceland..

Argentina...

Edited December 17, 2008 by White Doors