Coalition Destructing Already

[August1991]

Sounds like the first Liberal MP is breaking Ranks. Are we seeing the beginings of a break away caucus?

Ignatieff does not want to sit in the cabinet. Manley and McKenna have both said that they do not want to serve in advisory roles.

I don't think any Liberal will cross the floor. I think rather that they will simply be absent when it comes time to vote on a confidence motion.

For Liberals, it will ultimately depend on polls in Ontario and how sitting members understand the reaction of their constituents. I can understand Harper's strategy. He has removed the main irritant (state financing of political parties) and is fostering a campaign to inform ordinary Canadians of what is happening. He needs a little more time for the message to get through.

I happen to think that this coalition will be unpopular with Liberal voters outside of large centres. They don't like the explicit connection to the Bloc and they don't like the place given to Jack Layton and the NDP.

There will be cracks within the Liberal caucus.

[Jobu]

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...r-pressure.aspx

Word from the Liberal emergency caucus that is currently taking place:

Ivison - “Is the coalition unravelling?”

Liberal MP - “It’s coming apart at the seams.”

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...-take-long.aspx

"Within an hour of Prime Minister Stephen Harper winning a two-month reprieve, some Grit MPs were pulling back from the idea of trying to replace the Tory regime with a Liberal-NDP coalition propped up by the Bloc Quebecois.

Toronto MP Jim Karygiannis says the coalition idea is finished and is calling on Stephane Dion to resign the Liberal leadership sooner rather than later.

... Newfoundland MP Scott Simms says all MPs need to give their heads' a collective shake and get back in touch with what their constituents want them to do: fix the faltering economy."

Karygiannis had a lot to say. Here's a transcript as reported by the Western Standard:

"The coalition -- the way that we're going right now -- it won't survive. I can't see it surviving. We have somebody who can't communicate and someone who can't communicate, its hard, its very hard...

"My French is limited. But I can tell you one thing: if I can communicate in English, I can communicate in English. If you can't communicate to the other 60 percent of the people when they listen to you -- and its a terrible speech and we bombed in the election. Well it says it right there, we bombed. We went from 96 seats to 76 seats...

"I know the NDP are vicious, and vicious when it comes to electing people of Parliament... It's not that I have mistrust of the NDP, I just think we need a better communication's person. Our communication sucks, it was shown last night. What else is there to say?

If you don't win the air war you don't don't get nowhere. If you don't have air support you can't win the ground war. We don't have ground support... and right now the air war, and the ads the Conservatives are going to throw at us, are going to be vicious."

[kimmy]

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...r-pressure.aspx

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...-take-long.aspx

Jim Karygiannis was on my radio the morning after the election ripping into Stephane Dion so viciously that even I felt bad for Dion. These comments aren't terribly surprising.

However, it's obvious that Dion's personal unpopularity is a huge detriment to the coalition, and that embarking on this plan under his leadership was a mistake. I believe (and desperately hope) that saner Liberals will be vigorously searching for a resolution to this escapade that restores stability to parliament and ditches this turkey in on fell swoop.

-k

[Oleg Bach]

Interesting..The NDP are "vicious" - the word vicious actually means full of VICE. Immorality and the freedom granted by the left to participate in immorality or VICE is the very foundation of Laytonism. Look at the courts Layton has set up - where a man or woman can commit adultery and the offended party must pay money to the offender. Open marriages are not marriages but in the mind of this new breed of socialism - pubic breeding with mulitiple partners is encouraged. We have young woman who have children by four and five different fathers - that's NDP vice for you. Their crazed socialist court support workers that "assist" woman - have said to me..."men and woman will never get along - they are just like their parents and will repeat the mistakes of their parents - so it's best to enforce a seperation of males and females legally" - real family builders! Lieing in a court of law is inspired by the NDP philosophy...If a feminist eccentric court support worker sees that the male is guiltless...they will instruct the duped female to lie...and harm her own husband and family.

When in an NDP court a witness is caught lieing - the socialist judge forgives the person for corrupting that court with "If she lied she must have had a good reason" The NDP policy is full of vice and viciousness - who said that socialist were kind and honest? Stalin lied - so did Lenin.....why you may ask do they use deception...It is because if they were of strong principle and character they would not have to lie - because they are weak they need to lie in their minds to survive - I say some social Darwinism maybe helpful when it comes to the NDP..

[wulf42]

Bwhahahahaha...........losers couldn t hold it together, watching Dion last night trying to speak was hilarious and now the West hates the Liberals more than ever!

[Michael Hardner]

I keep referring the coalition tactics as 'throwing the corpse of Dion at Harper to see what happens'.

Harper may have been hurt. The corpse can't be hurt.

Here's to metaphors...

[Oleg Bach]

I keep referring the coalition tactics as 'throwing the corpse of Dion at Harper to see what happens'.

Harper may have been hurt. The corpse can't be hurt.

Here's to metaphors...

All have a purpose and being a meat puppet and human battering ram may be all that Dion is good for at present. It really is an abuse of Dion the human being. Metaphorically speaking it like a cowardly bunch of jerks beating you to death with the corpse of a new born then blaming the assualt on the baby!

[stevoh]

Jim Karygiannis was on my radio the morning after the election ripping into Stephane Dion so viciously that even I felt bad for Dion. These comments aren't terribly surprising.

However, it's obvious that Dion's personal unpopularity is a huge detriment to the coalition, and that embarking on this plan under his leadership was a mistake. I believe (and desperately hope) that saner Liberals will be vigorously searching for a resolution to this escapade that restores stability to parliament and ditches this turkey in on fell swoop.

-k

The threat of a coalition is exactly what Harper needed to put him back into his place, he should be representing ALL Canadians, not just his own party at the expense of others. He will continue to pay for this incredibly foolish and impetuous decision for a good while now.

That being said, the coalition in its current state does not give me any confidence that it can govern this country.

The coalition was a desperate move that I feel was warranted. However, the point has been made, lets get back to the business of governing the country. Harper has to now come up with a financial plan that benefits all Canadians, or we go back to the polls.

[madmax]

I keep referring the coalition tactics as 'throwing the corpse of Dion at Harper to see what happens'.

Harper may have been hurt. The corpse can't be hurt.

Here's to metaphors...

I wondered if that wasn't the case. If he somehow succeeded, no loss, if he fails, Harper feasts on rotted flesh.

[Smallc]

watching Dion last night trying to speak was hilarious and now the West hates the Liberals more than ever!

Yes, making fun of others language skills and hating other Canadians....something to be proud of.

[Oleg Bach]

All other parties went into panic mode since the economic upheavel arrived. They all believed that tossing more money at the nation and THEMSELVES would heal the potential wounds. It appears that those that oppose Harper believe in but one god ---------cash! -----while Harper being a man of depth and private faith - knows better - They are all pissed off at him for NOT panicing. Ask yourself this question - who has the cooler head? Certainly not the opposition - as for the Block - they are very cool - like sharks.

[M.Dancer]

The whole idea of a coalition sends a mesaage that the Party is in defeatist mode and can't survive without the assistance of the Video Professor and a party even more irrelevant than the Liberals are now...

It's a trend for Dion....first an agreement with a fringe party for the sake of the environment, now in the name of the economy a coalition with the one party that has zero intellectual collateral regarding the economy. Given this trend I assume in order to revitalise the auto industry Dion will consult with the best minds i the Amis community...

[Michael Hardner]

I've been asking fellow Liberal/NDP supporters what they think of this coalition and even the die-hard supporters have been iffy on it.

Strategy-wise, this seems to be shaping up as a big mistake.

[madmax]

Yes, making fun of others language skills and hating other Canadians....something to be proud of.

Having read the early Civil War thread postings by Wulf..... they speak for themselves.

[madmax]

The whole idea of a coalition sends a mesaage that the Party is in defeatist mode and can't survive without the assistance of the Video Professor and a party even more irrelevant than the Liberals are now...

If you make me pee my pants again, I am sending you the cleaning bill.

[guyser]

Strategy-wise, this seems to be shaping up as a big mistake.

Had it gone through I would agree, but all along I felt that some sanity would prevail and cooler heads would think this through.

And the idea of throwing the corpse is very intriguing. Could well be what was thought.

[Alta4ever]

What uproad

99% is engineered by conservative ads to get a response from the sheep, that and party members who can't accept their impotence and are inanely and in an unbalanced way pathetically trying to salvage something that will simply fail.

They are damaging the canadian economy and wasting money in the process.

I have not seen or one ad yet on television or Radio out hear about this. The people in this part of the world see you for what you are.

[Smallc]

If there was an election today, Harper would have his majority.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/...ament-poll.html

[Oleg Bach]

Jack and his friends in Toronto and Europe have been planning a take over ever since their university days. He is much more hard core leftist than he lets out. Idealogs steeped in communism are brainwashed and fully indoctrinated - like robots - Jack is fully institutionalized and if he had his way - woman would be laying bricks in the cold while the men built statues of Jack in a Leninist pose. Extremism is not the way to go - Now that all the unionization has failed and most of our industrial blue collar jobs are in China - Jack does not have the traditional communist "worker" base to stand on - He simply ran out of time and is desperate to be famous - let him go to China and help his commradicals there.

[Michael Hardner]

Had it gone through I would agree, but all along I felt that some sanity would prevail and cooler heads would think this through.

And the idea of throwing the corpse is very intriguing. Could well be what was thought.

Wait, guyser, are you saying it was never supposed to go this far ? Odd thought, that.

[Oleg Bach]

If they all leaped on mass from the castle walls they could crush Harper...just wonder if they are co-ordinated enough to toss all the potential corpses...maybe some rocks and boiling oil also.

[kimmy]

I keep referring the coalition tactics as 'throwing the corpse of Dion at Harper to see what happens'.

Harper may have been hurt. The corpse can't be hurt.

Here's to metaphors...

that's hilarious (though also rather grisly. )

Do you think that the plan all along was to create a nightmare scenario for Canadians, then provide a much better alternative later on?

And if so, do you think Dion knew he a human sacrifice, or did he honestly believe he was going to be PM all along?

-k

[guyser]

Wait, guyser, are you saying it was never supposed to go this far ? Odd thought, that.

I dont think any of them thought it would be like this. Sometimes things get a life of their own and overpower what any logic was apparent at the time.

I dont think Harper understood the ramifications of his moves. If he thought that the Libs or one other would roll over and play with him, like they did before the election, he miscalculated...badly.

All three leaders are surprised by the reaction from the public. (arent we all?) What did they think?

A lawyer never asks a question for which he does not already have the answer. Harper should have known and I dont think he did. Sometimes we all go in for a penny, and wind up a hundred bucks shorter...why? Who knows, things just snowball.

My biggest peeve about all of this has to do with the timing and nothing else. If the 3 losers want to try this in a good economic climate, fine, it is legal and it is something Harper and the Cons would do, notwithstanding those far right idiots here and elsewhere that claim he wouldnt.

But with the eco crisis we have, why now, why couldnt our PM have stood up to them and said we need to work together in this crisis and get the country moving so, what do you need to do this?

Conciliatory, accomodating and non partisan. It is what a leader does. we dont have anyone fitting that bill.

[capricorn]

And if so, do you think Dion knew he a human sacrifice, or did he honestly believe he was going to be PM all along?

-k

I have read commentators say the professor side of Dion is adverse to taking advice and is rather bull headed. Add to this his ineptness at politics and his inability (and/or refusal) to see the big picture. Therefore, it would not be surprising that Dion wouldn't realize if he was being played. I am reminded of Ray Heard opining that Dion is an idiot savant. That cruel label may be closer to the mark than I thought at the time.

Now, about Janine Krieber. Spouses of politicians have been known to have a degree of influence on political decisions. When Dion retreated for a week after his October 14 defeat and decided to remain leader rather than resign immediately, I wondered to what extent Janine influenced his decision. And now, I ask myself whether he sought her opinion on the merits of entering this coalition maze. I don't know what Janine's political aspirations are. But I do recall reading she felt certain her husband would ascend to the Prime Minister's job. It appears they shared this conviction therefore I can see them talking themselves into agreeing on all those moves quicker than you can say Kyoto.

I am now thinking Dion will decide to run once again for the leadership of the Liberal Party. What's to stop him?

[Wilber]

I dont think any of them thought it would be like this. Sometimes things get a life of their own and overpower what any logic was apparent at the time.

I think that's exactly what happened. Fortunately we have an office called the GG who gave everyone an opportunity to return to the land of the sane. Whatever happens in January, hopefully a lot more thought will have gone into it.