Toronto gun violence leaves two dead

[Alta4ever]

It's funny you should use that term. Violence in those cities can be described with one word: Natives.

I see it a little different, money and organized crime.

[Mr.Canada]

Well, in Calgary, at least, it has to do with gangs; are these "Native" gangs?

Native, Arab and Asian gangs yes.

[noahbody]

At least they didn't someone who was married to organized crime figures.

Are you suggesting that Bernier dating someone with a shady past is somehow worse or even comparable to the crimes of the sponsorship scandal?

That Bernier dated someone married to organized crime figures? I think what was desperate was how the Tories dismissed it as a problem even though security experts thought it was no joking matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Libs put someone who they knew had direct connections to the mafia into cabinet? Just in case it slipped your mind:

The newspaper reported that mob informer and confessed killer Frank Lino told the FBI that in the 1990s he encountered Gagliano in Montreal at a catering hall, and during that meeting, a Bonanno gangster, Joseph Lopresti, introduced Gagliano to Lino as a made man in the family....

In 2001, opposition MPs demanded to know why Gagliano’s Montreal riding office contacted the immigration department on behalf of Maria Sicurella di Amodeo. The woman’s husband, Gaetano Amodeo, was arrested that year in Montreal in connection with Mafia-related murders in Italy and Germany.

Gagliano said his staff had carried out a routine service for a constituent and did not know Amodeo’s background.

A decade ago, Gagliano found his rise to cabinet delayed after the RCMP told prime minister Jean Chrétien Gagliano’s accounting firm was working for companies owned by Agostino Cuntrera, who spent time in prison for conspiracy in the murder of another mobster. Gagliano’s firm later stopped working for Cuntrera’s firms.

Cuntrera came from the same Sicilian town as Gagliano and worked to help Gagliano get elected in his riding.

In 1996, the Star reported police questioned Gagliano about his name appearing in the notebooks of suspicious characters, including a Mafia member fatally shot on Dec. 14, 1991, in Sicily.

http://www.nicaso.com/pages/doc_page180.html

[guyser]

Native, Arab and Asian gangs yes.

Oh goody, the whites dont do nuttin wrong.

[eyeball]

We can't outlaw guns because prohibition doesn't work but we shouldn't legalize drugs because prohibition works.

Stupidity leaves two dead in Toronto.

[Argus]

Oh goody, the whites dont do nuttin wrong.

No one has ever suggested that there aren't White vermin out there. However, Whites commit crimes, especially the kind people are most afraid of - random and violent - at a far lower rate than non-whites. Sorry if the truth hurts.

Macleans said that 90% of the violent street crime is attributable to Jamaicans. Are we not supposed to pay any attention to that? In a news story on the weekend regarding an HRC hearing against a former Tory MP (ridiculous intself) it was revealed that while natives make up 9% of the population of Saskatchewan they were responsible for 52% of the crime. Why should we ignore disproportionate numbers like that merely because it makes politically correct liberals feel uncomfortable?

[Argus]

We can't outlaw guns because prohibition doesn't work but we shouldn't legalize drugs because prohibition works.

Stupidity leaves two dead in Toronto.

Are you saying we should legalize hand guns? Let anyone buy one who wants to?

[M.Dancer]

Macleans said that 90% of the violent street crime is attributable to Jamaicans.

I would like to see that link,,

[Sir Bandelot]

Macleans said that 90% of the violent street crime is attributable to Jamaicans. Are we not supposed to pay any attention to that? In a news story on the weekend regarding an HRC hearing against a former Tory MP (ridiculous intself) it was revealed that while natives make up 9% of the population of Saskatchewan they were responsible for 52% of the crime. Why should we ignore disproportionate numbers like that merely because it makes politically correct liberals feel uncomfortable?

Even if its true, what conclusion should we draw from it, what should be done about it? It may be true that a gang war has developed, involving gangs of largely black youth. They may be small in number, compared to the overall black population but they commit alot of crimes. If they were gone, the number of crimes would drop dramatically. The problem is that based on this information, simple minded individuals would now go about in fear of all people who have dark skin. Even though, this gang that is causing so many problems could represent less than 1% of the black population. So there is clearly a problem with that logic, what it means to people who don't have a context to put it in. It has nothing to do with liberalism, its just a matter of understanding facts and what they mean, and preventing racists from using these facts wrongly, to instill fear in the less informed.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[Sir Bandelot]

Not a black man in this Toronto incident:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2...eese_081026.jpg

An arrest warrant has been issued for Kyle Weese, 25.

Link to news article

Edited October 27, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[Topaz]

Common sense says the people who admit crimes are people who have little or no education, therefore no job to support themselves. So they turn to crime thinking its an easier way to live. I think in Canada we have to do a better job of stopping the guns from coming into this country from the US. When is Canada going to make hand guns illegal? Why do people need them, they are made for people to kill with and if a person does have one then they better have a very good reason why they have one and be licensed to carry it. Too many people are dying by someone with a handgun.

[Smallc]

Well, whatever... that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeg has one of the highest rates of homicide per capita in the country. Sorry.

Doesn't change the fact that I feel safe there and in two years have never witnessed a crime.

[JB Globe]

I would like to see that link,,

So would I. I'm especially interested since crime-by-ethnicity stats aren't recorded, and there are so many unsolved murders where we don't know the identity of the perp.

Although I'm sure Jamaicans are over-represented in terms of violent crime, that has a lot to do with Jamaicans being over-represented below the poverty line. Plus, it's not news to any Jamaican folks that too many young Jamaican males are dying from gun violence - they just don't like to admit it because bigots are waiting in the wings to use that info to denounce their community as a whole and use it as justification for all kinds of discriminatory polices against them (which end up worsening the situation, not improving it).

[Argus]

I would like to see that link,,

Link doesn't seem to work any more, but I'm sure it can be found. The relevent portion, posted on MW earlier, is this:

An interesting interview in Macleans with LAPD (former NYPD) Chief William Bratton. Bratton talks about the uselessness of political correctness in combating violent gangs, and says the Toronto police should go after Jamaican gangs, and not be concerned about accusations of racial bias. I was a bit startled that Macleans would allow a suggestion that 80% of criminal gangs in Toronto were Jamaican.

Macleans: So you know a little bit about our city? You know about our problems? A 27-per-cent increase in the number of homicides from 1995 to today. A Boxing Day slaying where a 15-year-old innocent bystander was gunned down during a gang shootout on a major shopping street. Can I tell you -- it would be nice if you were our police chief.

Bratton: Well, thank you. Tell me, the gang violence that you are experiencing, what is the racial or ethnic background of the gangs?

Macleans: That's a refreshingly blunt question. Some say it may be as high as 80 per cent Jamaican. But no one knows for sure, because people here don't like to talk about that.

Bratton: You need to talk about it. It's all part of the issue. If it's Jamaican gangs that are committing the crimes, well then, go after the Jamaican gangs. And don't be afraid to go after them because they're black. That's the last thing you need to be concerned with.

[Mr.Canada]

I still remember the uproar over The Toronto Star publishing pictures off all the murderers and murder victims in onbe issue and around 90% victims and convicted murderers in TO were black. Why are liberals so afraid of the truth? There is a problem in the black community so let's deal with it instead of pretending it doesn't exsist.

Now Jane/Finch is being exported to the Peel Region through Social Housing. Gangs are running rampant through that area now. We all know what that means don't we?

[M.Dancer]

So would I. I'm especially interested since crime-by-ethnicity stats aren't recorded, and there are so many unsolved murders where we don't know the identity of the perp.

Although I'm sure Jamaicans are over-represented in terms of violent crime, that has a lot to do with Jamaicans being over-represented below the poverty line. Plus, it's not news to any Jamaican folks that too many young Jamaican males are dying from gun violence - they just don't like to admit it because bigots are waiting in the wings to use that info to denounce their community as a whole and use it as justification for all kinds of discriminatory polices against them (which end up worsening the situation, not improving it).

I may have found the reference....it's Linda Frum interviewing the Chief of Police from MYC and...she is guessing about the ethnic make up of gangs.

.

So you know a little bit about our city? You know about our problems? A27-per-cent increase in the number of homicides from 1995 to today. A BoxingDay slaying where a 15-year-old innocent bystander was gunned down during agang shootout on a major shopping street. Can I tell you -- it would be niceif you were our police chief. Well, thank you. Tell me, the gang violence that you are experiencing, whatis the racial or ethnic background of the gangs?That's a refreshingly blunt question. Some say it may be as high as 80 percent Jamaican. But no one knows for sure, because people here don't like totalk about that.You need to talk about it. It's all part of the issue. If it's Jamaicangangs that are committing the crimes, well then, go after the Jamaicangangs. And don't be afraid to go after them because they're black. That'sthe last thing you need to be concerned with.

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content...amp;source=srch

HArdily a definitive state

[Argus]

Even if its true, what conclusion should we draw from it, what should be done about it? It may be true that a gang war has developed, involving gangs of largely black youth. They may be small in number, compared to the overall black population but they commit alot of crimes. If they were gone, the number of crimes would drop dramatically. The problem is that based on this information, simple minded individuals would now go about in fear of all people who have dark skin. Even though, this gang that is causing so many problems could represent less than 1% of the black population. So there is clearly a problem with that logic, what it means to people who don't have a context to put it in. It has nothing to do with liberalism, its just a matter of understanding facts and what they mean, and preventing racists from using these facts wrongly, to instill fear in the less informed.

Boy, patronizing a little? We don't want to keep information or statistics on such things because people - you know, those dumb people, not as smart as you - might use them to make Black people look bad or something.

As if black crime isn't on the back of so many minds anyway, to the point Jesse Jackson once famously said he feels relieved when he realizes the young men behind him on a street are white not black.

Curiously, however, we keep full crime statistics based on race for natives.

[Mr.Canada]

I may have found the reference....it's Linda Frum interviewing the Chief of Police from MYC and...she is guessing about the ethnic make up of gangs.

.

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content...amp;source=srch

HArdily a definitive state

By the same token you cannot provide links to a site that states whites are doing most of the violent crime in TO can you. You know damned well you cannot. Everyone knows thetruth.

[Argus]

I may have found the reference....it's Linda Frum interviewing the Chief of Police from MYC and...she is guessing about the ethnic make up of gangs.

.

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content...amp;source=srch

HArdily a definitive state

There are no definitive statements because we don't keep statistics based on race, except for natives. I recall a Toronto police bigshot getting into a lot of trouble when he admitted that blacks make up 5% of his division but were responsible for about 95% of the violent street crime. There have been numerous little tell-tails like this, like Macleans, like a Gazette article once detailing Montreal' homicide squad room, its walls covered with mug shots of non-whites, to a Globe and Mail story where the reporter sat in on one of the drug courts for a full day and saw almost no whites being brought before the bench, to a Citizen article stating over half of all the juveniles in custody were Somalians. But no, nothing definitive.

[Mr.Canada]

There are no definitive statements because we don't keep statistics based on race, except for natives. I recall a Toronto police bigshot getting into a lot of trouble when he admitted that blacks make up 5% of his division but were responsible for about 95% of the violent street crime. There have been numerous little tell-tails like this, like Macleans, like a Gazette article once detailing Montreal' homicide squad room, its walls covered with mug shots of non-whites, to a Globe and Mail story where the reporter sat in on one of the drug courts for a full day and saw almost no whites being brought before the bench, to a Citizen article stating over half of all the juveniles in custody were Somalians. But no, nothing definitive.

That's actually a good idea. I think that I may go to a courthouse and keep a running tally of each and the type of crime comitted. I'll type an article and try to sell it to a publication ir at least post it here.

[guyser]

Not a black man in this Toronto incident:

Its not as if that fact matters.

I feel safe in pretty much the entire city. Certain neighbourhoods I would avoid but this city is as safe and is safer than pretty much any city the same size in NA.

[Mr.Canada]

Boy, patronizing a little? We don't want to keep information or statistics on such things because people - you know, those dumb people, not as smart as you - might use them to make Black people look bad or something.

As if black crime isn't on the back of so many minds anyway, to the point Jesse Jackson once famously said he feels relieved when he realizes the young men behind him on a street are white not black.

Curiously, however, we keep full crime statistics based on race for natives.

If people of colour are not commiting the majority of violent crime on the streets of TO then why are they so against keeping stats on the ethnicity of those that are committing crimes?

Is the system protecting white criminals who are the majority committing these violent crimes?

You'd think they'd be up in arms over this.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[Kitch]

Funny what a few years of unchecked and wide open immigration can do eh?

Go Liberals Go!

That's not fair. White people belong to gangs and commit acts of violence too. The guy who killed an innocent girl at a bar on Queen street on the weekend was a white guy. Just pulled out his gun and fired it into a crowd. (There are other issues surrounding this guy, but you can't blame immigration for an increase in violence).

[Kitch]

Curiously, however, we keep full crime statistics based on race for natives.

VERY curious. Good point!

[Kitch]

That's not fair. White people belong to gangs and commit acts of violence too. The guy who killed an innocent girl at a bar on Queen street on the weekend was a white guy. Just pulled out his gun and fired it into a crowd. (There are other issues surrounding this guy, but you can't blame immigration for an increase in violence).

Sorry... this has been said already.