Bob Rae

[mikedavid00]

Your Official Bob Rae Predictions.

Will be referenced in future time to see who was right.

Well anyone who knows how to read between the lines can see what's shaping up.

Last night on CTV the split screen between Rae and Ignatieff. Iggy claiming that he wont 'entertain' or 'go near' the question while Rae faces the question.

Rae also said that the Liberals will need to rebuild and is being more of a maverick.

Iggy is being a loyalist to Dion. Saying things like 'how could you be so insensative' when being asked about Dion getting boot.

Rae and Iggy are not seing eye to eye.

Iggy seems to be strategisng and alligning himself with the Dion establishment.

Rae is speaking how he feels and is acting more of a Maverick and making his position now.

I immagine Rae was not happy about getting the plagerism bit. Rae seems like the type to hold grudges.

Sikh's will racially hijack leadership in Iggy's favor (again). Rae will have had enough and seek other options.

Harper will want to continue to lead. Harper knows that Rae will be a threat to him if with the Liberals *or* the Conservatives and will not take kindly to that.

What is your prediction for the record?

[drewski]

I think if its only the guys who ran last time, he would have a could chance of winning (really depends on who endorses who on the 2 and higher votes).

If it was against Tobin and McKenna he wouldn't stand a chance. I think even Manley or Rock would have a good chance of beating him

[capricorn]

For the record, if Bob Rae is elected Liberal leader this would be the final disaster for the Liberal Party. Bob Rae is a socialist. Joining the Liberals was an opportunistic move on his part. It is a known fact that Canada is more centrist in its politics. These elections confirm that fact. If the Liberals want to remain a viable option they must follow the lead of Canadians and reverse its movement to the left.

As a Conservative supporter, I hope the Liberals are short sighted enough to choose Rae. As Liberal leader, he'd make a very big target for all the other parties in any general election.

[blueblood]

For the record, if Bob Rae is elected Liberal leader this would be the final disaster for the Liberal Party. Bob Rae is a socialist. Joining the Liberals was an opportunistic move on his part. It is a known fact that Canada is more centrist in its politics. These elections confirm that fact. If the Liberals want to remain a viable option they must follow the lead of Canadians and reverse its movement to the left.

As a Conservative supporter, I hope the Liberals are short sighted enough to choose Rae. As Liberal leader, he'd make a very big target for all the other parties in any general election.

Harper would have a field day blasting him on Rae days. It won't take too much attack ads to get Rae, he can send some Duceppe's way now.

[Moonbox]

Bob Rae would be a disaster. He ran Ontario's biggest deficits ever and had the lowest approval rating of any premier in Ontario ever.

It wasn't that long ago. We all remember.

Making Bob Rae, who is held in contempt by the majority of people in the Liberal heartland, leader of the party would put the nail in their coffin. Maybe the Liberals would do well again in Toronto, but that'd be about it.

[drewski]

while I disagree with most of his polices as premier, I will concede to him that he inherited the government of a province headed into a nasty recession, which severely limited his options

[Bryan]

As a hard core Conservative supporter, I think a Bob Rae led Liberal Party would be an amazing gift. He'd be a lot easier to bury than Dion was, for a variety of reasons.

....I mean... Yeah! Bob Rae, we're scared of him!!!! Please, have mercy, don't elect Bob Rae as your leader!

Edited October 16, 2008 by Bryan

[Mad_Michael]

I'll support Rae over any of the 'assumed' candidates for leadership of the Liberal Party.

He's shifted very nicely from a 'silk-stocking-socialist' past to adopt the liberal-centerism of Paul Martin over the last twenty years. Most of the members of the Liberal party that I like, were in the Martin faction and supported Rae.

He's got the best package of abilities needed for the top job - impeccable French language skills, telegenic looks and is a polished and experienced campaigner (clearly Harper, Dion and Iggy are not). And most notably, Rae's national polling numbers taken during the last leadership contest showed that he was the only candidate that was resonating with the public in all of the Provinces across this great country.

And I'd even defend Rae's record as Premier of Ontario as a 'decent job' under impossible conditions. Rae's victory was a total surprise for everyone (including Rae I'm sure). Rae was caught between the rightwingers screaming about manning the barricades against the socialist hordes to one side and leftwingers demanding they storm the Bastille on the other) - and inheriting another one of those 'mystery' deficits that Conservatives always leave behind when they get thrown out (and deny furiously the existence of). Indeed, the greatest opposition to Rae's premiership came entirely from the left (public sector unions). Though, truth be told, having Mike Harris follow you as Premier can make anyone look good by comparison.

Indeed, Rae's principle failing as premier of Ontario is that it revealed him to be a centerist liberal. The left hates him for that. The right just hates anyone who is not a tory, so that's a bit of a moot point.

Rae has the personality needed to bring the Liberal Party back together. And yes, the party establishment will line up behind Iggy. That alone is enough for me to prefer Rae.

[tom cody]

I actually like Bob Rae. This is coming from a strong Conservative supporter. I know that he was among the worst premiers in Ontario history but I think he has learned his lesson from that and is ready to move on.

Should be an interesting contest for the Liberals if there is one.

[Vancouver King]

A Liberal return to power must begin with it's traditional base of Ontario. Right or wrong, Rae is perceived to have far too much baggage there from his former provincial regime.

Likable and savvy won't be enough in the coming leadership race, a guaranteed winner is crucial for the debt-strapped Liberal party. Only Manley or Ignatieff qualify against that standard.

[White Doors]

A Liberal return to power must begin with it's traditional base of Ontario. Right or wrong, Rae is perceived to have far too much baggage there from his former provincial regime.

Likable and savvy won't be enough in the coming leadership race, a guaranteed winner is crucial for the debt-strapped Liberal party. Only Manley or Ignatieff qualify against that standard.

Agree on Ignatief, definitely disagree on Manley. Add McKenna.

[na85]

Frankly I don't see how Rae will ever win a leadership race, given his track record in Ontario. Rae at the reins of the Liberals would be handing the Tories a propaganda/attack ad weapon of immense power.

[betsy]

Liberal Leader Rae will result in a Blue wave in Ontario!

[mikedavid00]

Frankly I don't see how Rae will ever win a leadership race, given his track record in Ontario. Rae at the reins of the Liberals would be handing the Tories a propaganda/attack ad weapon of immense power.

Rae was much younger and voters are forgiving. Voters have a short memory.

Because of ethnic voting, I believe Iggy will win the leadership race. He wants to have immigration applications online and increase people to 500,000 a year and have the non contributing family members here within a year.

Rae is not liked in the Sikh communities and bus loads of Sikhs will sway the outcome away from Rae. All because Rae made comments to the Air India Bombings and the families. The Sikh's didn't like that. Rae will get fed up and possible join the Conservatives.

The CPC will want Rae to run in his riding because he's a shoe-in and the first break into the city ridings they are looking for.

Rae wone by a landslide a couple days back. A landslide. The guy just wins elections. The leadership was ethnically hijacked. If not, he would have one. He had almost everyone running standing behind him. Who can forget the crowed around him at the leadership race.

[Mr.Canada]

Dion has basically no support in his party and would likely have trouble getting 40% of the popular vote in a review. So if Ignatiaf is getting Dion(s) supporters he will lose.

I believe that Rae will like be the front runner along with MacKenna and probably some dark horse unknown. Forget about Kennedy as he has blown any credibility he had by pressuring them into voting for Dion so he is done. The Liberals need a ground up rebuild they need a strong leader to give them an identity and a policy and a plan they none of those wt this time.

[blueblood]

Rae was much younger and voters are forgiving. Voters have a short memory.

Because of ethnic voting, I believe Iggy will win the leadership race. He wants to have immigration applications online and increase people to 500,000 a year and have the non contributing family members here within a year.

Rae is not liked in the Sikh communities and bus loads of Sikhs will sway the outcome away from Rae. All because Rae made comments to the Air India Bombings and the families. The Sikh's didn't like that. Rae will get fed up and possible join the Conservatives.

The CPC will want Rae to run in his riding because he's a shoe-in and the first break into the city ridings they are looking for.

Rae wone by a landslide a couple days back. A landslide. The guy just wins elections. The leadership was ethnically hijacked. If not, he would have one. He had almost everyone running standing behind him. Who can forget the crowed around him at the leadership race.

I think you support the CPC because you think they will shut the door on immigration and boot the immigrants out. You idolizing Bob Rae shows you are the farthest thing from a fiscal conservative.

If I were you I would support another party because the CPC is not anti-immigration and would never ever let a socialist in their caucus. Especially one who has tanked the Ontario economy.

[Mad_Michael]

A Liberal return to power must begin with it's traditional base of Ontario. Right or wrong, Rae is perceived to have far too much baggage there from his former provincial regime.

Likable and savvy won't be enough in the coming leadership race, a guaranteed winner is crucial for the debt-strapped Liberal party. Only Manley or Ignatieff qualify against that standard.

You're kidding about Iggy right? Guarenteed winner? This guy makes Gordon Brown look like a movie star.

Btw, it is helpful to remember that the Liberal party tried to "crown" Iggy the first time and that was such an ugly prospect opposed by a majority of the party that we ended up with Dion as the 'anyone but Iggy' candidate.

Iggy has nothing. He's just a warmed over Harvard boy - totally out of place in Canadian politics - and he makes Gordon Brown look charismatic by comparison.

[madmax]

Iggy.... Rae.....

Libs are in big trouble. Easy Pickings these guys.

Rae couldn't pull 20 people when he came to one liberal held riding. More reporters then people.

Iggy did worse.

Rae always was a spend and tax Liberal. The very fact that he stood beside Dion to express his support for the Green SHift shows that he is NOT a Paul Martin Liberal but a Trudeau elitist, as his family roots demonstrate. Silver spoon, silver tongue. Won't get fooled again.

Layton and Harper have more in common with Paul Martin Economics then either the intellectual Iggy or the proven failure Rae.

I can understand Liberals desperation for a new candidate.

It won't be these two guys..... as the next one.

[Mad_Michael]

Rae always was a spend and tax Liberal.

Please cite an example of some proof of this absurd assertion.

Rae has NEVER been a tax and spend Liberal.

Btw, that's an American term, though usually without the capital "L".

The very fact that he stood beside Dion to express his support for the Green SHift shows that he is NOT a Paul Martin Liberal but a Trudeau elitist, as his family roots demonstrate. Silver spoon, silver tongue. Won't get fooled again.

Layton and Harper have more in common with Paul Martin Economics then either the intellectual Iggy or the proven failure Rae.

I can understand Liberals desperation for a new candidate.

It won't be these two guys..... as the next one.

Okay, whatever you say. Your arguments are just too impressive for me to bother rebutting them.

[madmax]

Please cite an example of some proof of this absurd assertion.

Rae has NEVER been a tax and spend Liberal.

Bob Rae abandoned NDP economic practices of Tommy Douglas and previous NDP governments...

The real issue is "what party has the history of being the most fiscally responsible?" The objective evidence would suggest it's the NDP.

Figures from the federal Department of Finance confirm that, on average, NDP governments stayed out of deficit 49 per cent of their years in office from 1984 to 2006, while Conservatives managed that same feat only 39 per cent and Liberal governments only 23 per cent of the time.

Before introducing Medicare in Saskatchewan in 1948, Tommy Douglas eliminated the debt. He took a lot of criticism, even from some of his supporters but he was able to set a pattern followed by most NDP governments ever since. Perhaps, considering the Department of Finances numbers, we can agree Bob Rae is finally where he belongs.

Those figures don't include Tommy Douglas reign of consecutive balanced budgets which would skew the results more.

the Saskatchewan government of Roy Romanow for paying off its debt after 12 consecutive balanced budgets.

This was accomplished after the previous Conservative government of Grant Devine was only able to stave off bankruptcy by accepting an emergency loan from the government of Brian Mulroney, who as you know, increased the national debt by 223 per cent while enjoying the largest Parliamentary majority in Canadian history.

With the information that the LIBERALS run deficits, and are tax and spenders, and that Bob Rae did not behave as an Economic Socialist or CCF/NDP economic fiscal responsibility, lets look at the track record of Mr Silver tongue in denial.

The following is a tax and spend liberal using keysenian policy, typical of the Liberal Record....and not typical of the NDP as the data from the Federal Government provides.

The Rae government's first budget, introduced in 1991, increased social spending to mitigate the economic slowdown and projected a record deficit of $9.1 billion. Finance Minister Floyd Laughren argued that Ontario made a decision to target the effects of the recession rather than the deficit

He increased our taxes and ran a huge deficit.

Gotta tell you.... Rae standing up with Dion Promoting the Green Shift and its tax increase while promoting an increase in spending is typical of Rae and I see no change in his economic behaviour.

Ironically Jack Laytons Platform had more in common with Paul Martin and no Deficit spending then anything Rae backed in this campaign or his track record.

He is a great speaker. And Very Likeable. But he will be crucified by the CPC, NDP and even the GPs.

Not a wise choice for leader. At least he has now ran as a Liberal. His arrogance to be the leader of a party where he had no previous membership only demonstrates the level of arrogance this opportunists has.

But what a friendly guy and a great speaker.

[capricorn]

I can understand Liberals desperation for a new candidate.

It won't be these two guys..... as the next one.

madmax, the problem I see is that the more attractive candidates, i.e. those without financial worries or tarnished political pasts, like John Manley and Frank McKenna, will probably turn thumbs down on a race for the leadership. It will take years to rebuild the fractured and bankrupt party. Why would these guys want to involve themselves in this monumental rebuilding process when they have everything going for them in the private sector. The only motivators I can see would be their deep love of the Liberal cause and their concern for its failing, and/or a patriotic calling to do what they believe must be done for the sake of their country.

Even though Iggy comes across as elitist and self centered, I think his personal negatives can be kept in check with the proper handlers. It's obvious he desperately wants to become Prime Minister. He can't do any worse than some of our past or present political party party leaders.

The Liberal leadership problem is immediate. The sooner that question can be resolved, the faster the Liberal Party can be revived, become a true opposition and later ascend to power.

[drewski]

madmax, the problem I see is that the more attractive candidates, i.e. those without financial worries or tarnished political pasts, like John Manley and Frank McKenna, will probably turn thumbs down on a race for the leadership. It will take years to rebuild the fractured and bankrupt party.

I think you'd see somebody like McKEna would run because he could unite the party a lot faster then the current crop of leaders like Rae or Iggy.

Why would these guys want to involve themselves in this monumental rebuilding process when they have everything going for them in the private sector. The only motivators I can see would be their deep love of the Liberal cause and their concern for its failing, and/or a patriotic calling to do what they believe must be done for the sake of their country.

to paraphrase an old saying, you can that the politician out of politics, but you can't take politics out of the politician. As i said in another thread, i also think he'd have a good chance to beat harper because of his obvious inability to win a majority given a relatively poor opponent

[Mr.Canada]

So Bob Rae is a " great guy and good speaker"?

Too bad he cannot run a party or a government or politic at all.

Perhaps he needs to leave politics and go on the speaking tour.

[Smallc]

So Bob Rae is a " great guy and good speaker"?

Too bad he cannot run a party or a government or politic at all.

Perhaps he needs to leave politics and go on the speaking tour.

Is it fun just constantly trumpeting conservative talking points>

[jdobbin]

Ironically Jack Laytons Platform had more in common with Paul Martin and no Deficit spending then anything Rae backed in this campaign or his track record.

Don't disagree that Rae has lots of negatives. I think he will fall short of the leadership but is probably going to be effective on the benches or as a future cabinet minister.

As for Layton, his cap and trade passed on lot of costs to the consumer that might not have ended up in lots more taxes but in plenty of additional costs for consumers.

I happened to believe the Green shift was a good way to price carbon. I think the tax cuts should been twice what they were though.

Now, I think any emissions program is going to be hampered by economic fears. The only way that will change is if the environmental changes pose even greater threats to Canadians. In the end, it could more expensive for Canadians to do nothing in advance of that.

Back to Layton. He won more seats but not as many as Broadbent. He still seems more a protester/activist rather than someone who runs things. For Layton to make a breakthrough, he has to moderate his attack on business. He talks about the kitchen table but he should also talk about the business table since for many, it is one and the same. It seems in his view everyone is an employee rather than employer.

Lastly on Rae, I don't think it is beyond comprehension for a deal to be made ala Blair and Brown. It brings peace, it sets up succession and it creates a united front. I just don't think that Rae will go first.