Harper needs to step down

[BC_chick]

The guy called an election on his own terms. Huge advantage. He was running against what was undoubtedly the most (publicly perceived) weak candidate in recent Liberal history. Another big advantage. The Liberal platform was not resonating with people in these tough economic times. Wonderful for him. The NDP was gaining momentum under Layton and splitting the left vote. You can't get better than that.

This should've been his moment and that's exactly why he called the election in the first place. So why another minority government?

What CPC supporters fail to understand is that whether legitimate or not, Harper is 'scary' to us social-liberals. I'm not talking about his economic plans because a lot of people who did not vote for him admit to liking his economic plans. So, it's the image of the opposition leader Harper we just can't shake. The guy at the abortion rallies. The guy vowing that gays should not have equal rights for marriage. A lot of us seem to be having a hard time forgetting that Harper.

IMHO, I think Harper's economic background makes for a terrific finance minister because people genuinely do seem to like his economic ideas. But study after study, it's shown that Canadians strongly identify as moderate or liberal when it comes to our social leanings, and the leader of the CPC should be someone whose views at least parallels that to some level.

He had ALL the advantages, and 143 seats is the best he could do. Now imagine when the Liberals get a leader who is an actual threat.

Edited October 15, 2008 by BC_chick

[Smallc]

He had ALL the advantages, and 143 seats is the best he could do. Now imagine when the Liberals get a leader who is an actual threat.

But he still won. I see no reason, that a sitting Prime Minister, who has steadily improving results should have to step down. It is completely unnecessary and would not be the best thing during these difficult economic times.

[M.Dancer]

Now imagine when the Liberals get a leader who is an actual threat.

Subsitute Dream for imagine....

Dion is only problem number two for the Liberals....They couldn't elect Chretien with their paltform even if the centre right was even more divided than it is now.

[BC_chick]

But he still won. I see no reason, that a sitting Prime Minister, who has steadily improving results should have to step down. It is completely unnecessary and would not be the best thing during these difficult economic times.

Good point, he won.

But what happened yesterday is as good as it's going to get for a Harper-lead CPC. Is that really a victory?

Personally, I'm happy to see to him stay. As as a liberal, I don't want to see anything strengthens the CPC. But if I were a CPC strategist.... I would start really looking at Harper as a liability for the party.

[Smallc]

Good point, he won.

But what happened yesterday is as good as it's going to get for a Harper-lead CPC. Is that really a victory?

We really don't know that for certain. It very well may be the truth, but it may very well be completely incorrect too.

[independent]

Good point, he won.

But what happened yesterday is as good as it's going to get for a Harper-lead CPC. Is that really a victory?

Personally, I'm happy to see to him stay. As as a liberal, I don't want to see anything strengthens the CPC. But if I were a CPC strategist.... I would start really looking at Harper as a liability for the party.

Clearly the conservatives seem too like his autocratic type of leader. It may even be necessary with all the divergent view points of his candidates. They are probably better keeping Harper because of the lack of alternates. Maybe someone should start a tread for possible replacements. I think they would come up empty.

[Smallc]

Clearly the conservatives seem too like his autocratic type of leader. It may even be necessary with all the divergent view points of his candidates.

Isn't that the same as any other party? Do all Liberals think alike? Do all New Democrats?

[independent]

Isn't that the same as any other party? Do all Liberals think alike? Do all New Democrats?

Yes. Just not too the same extreme.

[Smallc]

Yes. Just not too the same extreme.

I would argue that the Liberals have just as much of a divergence in opinion.

[kengs333]

But he still won. I see no reason, that a sitting Prime Minister, who has steadily improving results should have to step down. It is completely unnecessary and would not be the best thing during these difficult economic times.

Just over 1% point increase in popular support is steadily static results in my opinion, but of course Canada's FPTP allows him to gain a disproportionate number of seats...

[blueblood]

Clearly the conservatives seem too like his autocratic type of leader. It may even be necessary with all the divergent view points of his candidates. They are probably better keeping Harper because of the lack of alternates. Maybe someone should start a tread for possible replacements. I think they would come up empty.

who else of prominence do the tories have that could replace harper, Lawrence Cannon? I don't see any leaders in the tory camp.

[noahbody]

What CPC supporters fail to understand is that whether legitimate or not, Harper is 'scary' to us social-liberals.

So Harper should step down because you choose to believe something you're not sure is even legitimate?

The guy at the abortion rallies.

Link please.

The guy vowing that gays should not have equal rights for marriage.

Link please.

But study after study, it's shown that Canadians strongly identify as moderate or liberal when it comes to our social leanings, and the leader of the CPC should be someone whose views at least parallels that to some level

.

If there is one issue Harper doesn't want to have anything to do with, it's abortion. He has said countless times his government won't introduce abortion legislation. He has said he would allow a free vote if an MP from any party introduced a bill, but any Liberal PM would have to do the same. Harper, who doesn't even claim to be pro choice and says his view are somewhere in the middle, has 1 vote. That's scary.

Not sure if you've looked at the Conservative party, but it's quite diverse. Do you think the majority of its members want to sacrifice their political careers by voting for abortion? If the answer is 'no' then your fears are not legitimate.

[eyeball]

Harper's socially conservative attitudes towards crime certainly contributed to killing his chances in Quebec. People there clearly want a humane justice system as opposed to the US style vengence system Harper proposes. Quebec handed the Conservatives their ass this election and they've never seemed more Canadian to me.

[lukin]

The guy called an election on his own terms. Huge advantage. He was running against what was undoubtedly the most (publicly perceived) weak candidate in recent Liberal history. Another big advantage. The Liberal platform was not resonating with people in these tough economic times. Wonderful for him. The NDP was gaining momentum under Layton and splitting the left vote. You can't get better than that.

This should've been his moment and that's exactly why he called the election in the first place. So why another minority government?

What CPC supporters fail to understand is that whether legitimate or not, Harper is 'scary' to us social-liberals. I'm not talking about his economic plans because a lot of people who did not vote for him admit to liking his economic plans. So, it's the image of the opposition leader Harper we just can't shake. The guy at the abortion rallies. The guy vowing that gays should not have equal rights for marriage. A lot of us seem to be having a hard time forgetting that Harper.

IMHO, I think Harper's economic background makes for a terrific finance minister because people genuinely do seem to like his economic ideas. But study after study, it's shown that Canadians strongly identify as moderate or liberal when it comes to our social leanings, and the leader of the CPC should be someone whose views at least parallels that to some level.

He had ALL the advantages, and 143 seats is the best he could do. Now imagine when the Liberals get a leader who is an actual threat.

Why are you so bitter. He did very well considering 80% of the media was painting him as something he's not. I guess you are sucker for the bias mainstream Canadian media. You are probably a pro at playing follow the leader.

[guyser]

He did very well considering 80% of the media was painting him as something he's not. I guess you are sucker for the bias mainstream Canadian media.

No the sucker is you. "80% of the media.."?

Oh my.

[betsy]

Good point, he won.

But what happened yesterday is as good as it's going to get for a Harper-lead CPC. Is that really a victory?

Definitely a better victory than Dion had!

Though it isn't a majority, a solid minority is still a victory.

Yeah...especially considering the ace team of the Liberals were actively campaigning to unseat him - CHRETIEN, PAUL MARTIN, BOB RAE, IGNATIEFF - and Harper, the one-man army emerged the victor. And to boot, gaining additional seats for the Conservatives! So yeah! I say bring it on!

That should put an end to that silly talk about forming a coalition.

Personally, I'm happy to see to him stay. As as a liberal, I don't want to see anything strengthens the CPC. But if I were a CPC strategist.... I would start really looking at Harper as a liability for the party.

I'm very happy too to see him stay! He has another chance to show his leadership skill. And you know it never hurts to have all the experience....the longer the people get to know him....if he keep handling his leadership well, the more people will trust him. Then the Oppositions can't use the "scary Harper" theme anymore.

With a good advice from those who know how to resonate effectively, especially in Quebec......you might be looking at Harper for a very, very, very long time.

Who knows, a few years form now....you'll be here on Maple leaf...with us on the Conservative side!

Edited October 15, 2008 by betsy

[betsy]

Maybe Dion will cross the floor?

[betsy]

The way I figure it is this: if he calls an election every two years, and gains 18 seats each time. In 18 years he'll have ALL the seats.

And he's still young!

[betsy]

By the way, he'll also have a majority after the first two years!

[Topaz]

who else of prominence do the tories have that could replace harper, Lawrence Cannon? I don't see any leaders in the tory camp.

What about Prentice? Former Ontarian who moved to Alberta, they have alot in common.

[lukin]

No the sucker is you. "80% of the media.."?

Oh my.

I know your think your very intelligent after that last post. Maybe 80% is a little high, but a majority of the media in Canada favors the left. Look at Craig Oliver and Robert Fife of CTV. These two guys, I expect to be unbiased commentators. That, however, couldn't be further from the truth. Both of them traveled in Dion's private jet during the election. those two guys are just a tip of the iceberg. People like you are easily fooled and don't want to believe the REAL truth. Seamus O Regan and Jane Taber are two other liberal supporters working for CTV.

As for the CBC, if you don't think they favour the Liberals, then you're not getting out enough. Heather Mallick works for the CBC. Have you ever read any of her columns? She's as far left as you can get.

My challenge to you is to name commentators on CBC and CTV who favour the Conservative party. It's time for you to put up or shut up.

As for the 80% Liberal media bias, that came from the USA. Here is a study from UCLA (University of California) that explains media bias for you. Please read it so that you can become more informed.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media...-UCLA-6664.aspx

Have a nice day.

http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/media-bias-in-canada/

[betsy]

What CPC supporters fail to understand is that whether legitimate or not, Harper is 'scary' to us social-liberals. I'm not talking about his economic plans because a lot of people who did not vote for him admit to liking his economic plans. So, it's the image of the opposition leader Harper we just can't shake. The guy at the abortion rallies. The guy vowing that gays should not have equal rights for marriage. A lot of us seem to be having a hard time forgetting that Harper.

It's not because we don't understand. We understand very well. We're not delusional like our left-wing opponents.

The fact that a rational, intelligent and competent leader is scary to liberals is the very reason why we don't want Liberals in power.

Rational, intelligent and competent are not Liberal strong points. Conservatives are grateful for what WE have.

And of course grateful for what you DON'T have....

IMHO, I think Harper's economic background makes for a terrific finance minister because people genuinely do seem to like his economic ideas. But study after study, it's shown that Canadians strongly identify as moderate or liberal when it comes to our social leanings, and the leader of the CPC should be someone whose views at least parallels that to some level.

Of course you're right about Harper and his economic background. He, ulike others, knows what he's talking about.

And for those very same reasons, his leadership qualities and competence and intelligence...he makes a great Prime Minister. A Conservative one. Why would we want another Liberal Party? We already have 3 or 4! They're called the OpposistionS!

He had ALL the advantages, and 143 seats is the best he could do.

What??? He gained 16 seats! And it looks like he got them all from the Liberals. Heck, we'll take what we can get.

He only had to compete with the Liberal TEAM - Chretien, Martin, Rae, Ignatieff et al - notice there's somebody missing?

Now imagine when the Liberals get a leader who is an actual threat.

WHO????

Bob Rae, the ex NDP? Remember what he did to Ontario.

Gerald kennedy? He can't stop talking long enough to listen.

Michael Ignatieff? An ex-pat who's come back to Canada looking for a job. Don't be too surprised if he's the first to cross the floor. After all, he is a conservative at heart. All be it....an unprincipled one.

Now, imagine which one of your team are you going to try next time? Or are you going to use them all again?

[BC_chick]

So Harper should step down because you choose to believe something you're not sure is even legitimate?

No, I think it's legitimate, it's your camp that disputes it. I said whether or not you feel our image of him is legimate, it doesn't change the fact that to us, he is.

Link please.

Link please.

You're denying Harper ever spoke in rallies against abortion or SSM?!?

.

If there is one issue Harper doesn't want to have anything to do with, it's abortion. He has said countless times his government won't introduce abortion legislation. He has said he would allow a free vote if an MP from any party introduced a bill, but any Liberal PM would have to do the same. Harper, who doesn't even claim to be pro choice and says his view are somewhere in the middle, has 1 vote. That's scary.

Not sure if you've looked at the Conservative party, but it's quite diverse. Do you think the majority of its members want to sacrifice their political careers by voting for abortion? If the answer is 'no' then your fears are not legitimate.

Edited October 15, 2008 by BC_chick

[noahbody]

You're denying Harper ever spoke in rallies against abortion or SSM?!?

I asked you to provide evidence for your accusations. To my knowledge he hasn't attended pro-life rallies. If he has, it will be easy for you to provide a link. If you can't find one, you should hopefully come to the conclusion that you've boughten into a lie. A lot of the scary, scary is fiction. Paul Martin entire campaign against Harper was fiction. Soldiers on the streets. Wanting the American health care system. Did you believe those too?

I'm not sure how one vows against same sex marriage, but what he vowed to do was not use the not-withstanding clause. He did hold a free vote on the issue as to whether revisit as he promised he'd do, as parliament never voted on the issue. Did he push that agenda? No. There are pro-life groups that are actually rallying against Harper. That's how scary he is.

Edited October 16, 2008 by noahbody

[M.Dancer]

No, I think it's legitimate, it's your camp that disputes it. I said whether or not you feel our image of him is legimate, it doesn't change the fact that to us, he is.

You're denying Harper ever spoke in rallies against abortion or SSM?!?

.

That didn't look like Harper at all.....