Omar Khadr's Sister on Hunger Strike

[myata]

Why making distinction on "violent"? Is it rational or ideological?

If you're sure that somebody can act as an adult in extreme situations, they sure can do it in the normal ones. Then, every 14 year old == adult, period.

[JB Globe]

Who cares?

Sorry, you don't care that you have less class than Omar Khadr's sister?

[JB Globe]

Do, you have Kids, are you telling me right now, that they don't know right from wrong,

I don't have kids, but I can tell you that in a few years when I do, they'll know right in wrong not because of some genetic ability to do so, but because I TAUGHT THEM the difference.

Do they kill or torture dogs and cats, do they beat other kids with a 2 X4 ....why is that....because they know it's wrong and they can make those kind of MAJOR decisions all by themselves.

What kind of nasty, pessimistic, cold-hearted, SOB are you that thinks that CHILDREN who (Very, very rarely) do these kinds of things do so simply because they chose to do so? Any rational person who knows even just a little bit about child psychology knows that a child kills a cat, either something isn't right at home (abuse) or they need help (mental illness).

or is it at the age 16 they suddenly get these so call MAJOR decision powers....

The ability of teenagers to make rational adult decisions differs from person to person - but 16 is the average, which is why we use that age as the point which teens can be charged with adult crimes. We can't start arbitrarily charging people younger than 16 with adult crimes just because some people with an ulterior motive are angry at them - because once you do that, there's no limit to how low you can go in age (I fully believe that there'd be people that would hold a 10 year old responsible if they hated Muslims enough to do so).

Besides, by ignoring international law, we're giving other regimes the perfect excuse to ignore it even more than they do already.

Some the Kids around here are armed with AK 47's and they are very much aware of the destructive power that they can deliver, and they are very much aware that over here it's not a game, there is no respawn, that death is violent and final..

And of course, if you had their upbringing, you'd probably be acting pretty similar.

And yes, unlike adults, they get a pass. Do you know why? Because they're CHILDREN. A kid with a gun is still a kid. Pulling a trigger doesn't make you a man. It's just makes you a little boy with a bigger and deadlier toy.

[AngusThermopyle]

And yes, unlike adults, they get a pass. Do you know why? Because they're CHILDREN. A kid with a gun is still a kid. Pulling a trigger doesn't make you a man. It's just makes you a little boy with a bigger and deadlier toy.

This is a very disingenous statement. When that bullet flies down range it doesn't matter if it was fired by a 15 or a 50 year old, it still does what its designed to do. When you take the field of combat you aren't playing with a toy, you are going to kill or be killed, its that simple.

[Oleg Bach]

Angus is right. No matter who or what or where - once you are armed you are reading and willing - plus full of intent to kill - I can see being in Canada and being invaded and protecting your home turf - but to travel half way around the planet to bear arms is NOT a person fighting for their survival. It is a person looking for trouble. A person driven by ideology and wanting to force by force that idea on others - and THAT is what the Khadrs were doing. This is akin to hearing about a long lost relative haveing a fued and that releative is a thousand miles away - and you go and attempt to kill the percieved offender. With this mentality I may as well go back to old Russia and start hunting down the decendants of the culprits that executed my grandfather...there are limits to revenge.. When you enter into the hospitable grace of the nation and family of Canada you let go of the past - Air India is a prime example of prolonged and stupified hate.

[myata]

What a pile of cr... He traveled with his family. Just stop hiding behind those rationalizations and say it plain and clear: we are/were/will be/etc scared of this kid with a gun to such an extent that we'll renege on ourselves proclaimed laws and principles, and studies and policies, etc whatever.

That would at least be honest.

[DogOnPorch]

JB Globe: The ability of teenagers to make rational adult decisions differs from person to person - but 16 is the average, which is why we use that age as the point which teens can be charged with adult crimes. We can't start arbitrarily charging people younger than 16 with adult crimes just because some people with an ulterior motive are angry at them - because once you do that, there's no limit to how low you can go in age (I fully believe that there'd be people that would hold a 10 year old responsible if they hated Muslims enough to do so).

lol...this to Army Guy who is on the scene as we speak. Maybe Mr Globe could do some social work in Afghanistan to show 15 year olds with AK-47s the ills of their ways, eh?? Should make a good YouTube video.

---------------------------------

These are the Captain's controls!

---Captain Link Hogthrob: Pigs In Space

[Radsickle]

WHat surprises me about all this is that the brother even made it out of afghanistan. Killing a medic is usually recieved badly by a squad. And im not naive enough to think some executions happen out there in the heat of battle.

What surprises me is that you assume him guilty based on rumour.

[tango]

That's not my point at all, On the battlefield their is no such thing as a child soldier,

Yes there is ... by international law. If you don't know that, I suspect you are just a wannabe, not a real soldier.

Again, I will say I am glad Omar came across US soldiers not ours, if you are an example. We know executions happen. They executed the man with him, shot Omar twice in the back and were about to finish him off when someone realized how young he was.

eta - Rereading your posts, it is clear that you know nothing about the facts of this case at all. There is NO evidence that Omar killed anyone. Read some reports before you spout off in ignorance, please. It is quite likely that Omar is not guilty of anything.

Suppose some white, non-Muslim looneytoon Canadian father forced his 10 year old son into an overseas military training camp and then into a war.

Would you be so quick to be so hateful?

Edited October 12, 2008 by tango

[Radsickle]

..there are limits to revenge.. When you enter into the hospitable grace of the nation and family of Canada you let go of the past - Air India is a prime example of prolonged and stupified hate.

Omar was born in Canada.... what past would you like him to let go of?

[tango]

DoP ... I think he has Omar mixed up with his father, as many do. Since Omar's father is dead, they want to punish Omar.

[DogOnPorch]

DoP ... I think he has Omar mixed up with his father, as many do. Since Omar's father is dead, they want to punish Omar.

I seriously doubt he has anyone mixed up.

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Machine gun,

tearin' my body all apart.

Machine gun,yeah,

tearin' my body all apart.

Evil man make me kill you.

Evil man make you kill me.

Evil man make me kill you,

even though were only famlies apart.

---Jimi Hendrix

[noahbody]

Omar was born in Canada.... what past would you like him to let go of?

He might have been born in Canada, but he was raised a foreign terrorist.

[myata]

That's not my point at all, On the battlefield their is no such thing as a child soldier,

Yes there is ... by international law. If you don't know that, I suspect you are just a wannabe, not a real soldier.

Well, for some people, the international law exists only as far as it's justifying their actions. When it suits, it's brought up as a pack of card (child soldiers in Africa), when doesn't - shuffled back and forgotten.

That's how we like to instruct other, lesser people on the paths of democracy and humanism.

Edited October 12, 2008 by myata

[AngusThermopyle]

Suppose some white, non-Muslim looneytoon Canadian father forced his 10 year old son into an overseas military training camp and then into a war.

Would you be so quick to be so hateful?

Actually Tango, that question is pure hypothesis with no factual basis and as such is purely emotional and devoid of any significance. Not to say I don't understand your point, it just doesn't have any validity when posed as a "what if" sort of question.

[tango]

Actually Tango, that question is pure hypothesis with no factual basis and as such is purely emotional and devoid of any significance. Not to say I don't understand your point, it just doesn't have any validity when posed as a "what if" sort of question.

I see you get the point. I rest my case.

[DogOnPorch]

tango: I see you get the point. I rest my case.

Angus is right. If you at least name one such occurance in 'white non-Muslim' culture, then the question has some validity beyond purely the hypothetical. The only thing dear old dad 'forces' me do with him in the wilderness is sit in a 12 foot car-topper until we reach our limit in trout. My friends growing-up enjoyed similar 'commando training' from their 'looneytoon' fathers.

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Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.

---Theodore Roosevelt

[Oleg Bach]

There is nothing racist or anti-Mohamid going on here..actually it is as we say with anti-christism..there sureley is an anti-mohamidism - Lets put an end to Muslim extremism and anti-mohamidism right here and now - GOD IS ALMIGHTY....first statement. All truely holy people who believe in God are in agreement with me on this one - second statement from an anti-god so-called Muslim......"I am killing in the name of God - Ahla..which is pretty arrogant giving the power that the infinite itelligent wisdom that is GOD....what these freaks are really saying is - GOD IS WEAK AND INFIRM AND IS INCAPABLE OF KILLING ON HIS OWN SO US SO-CALLED MUSLIMS MUST HELP POOR OLD WEAK DITHERING GOD...

This whole concept of killing in the name of God is blasphemy! God has been birthing and killing humans for millions of years and does not need the assistance of infidels that believe they are holy - they are not! I rest my damn case in these regards - there is no devine God given logic killing in the name of GOD - having said that - anyone driven to kill for so-called relgious reasons - Is the average human being weather Muslim, Christain or Jew must be pretty underdeveloped intellectually and spritually stupid to believe that God condones people attempting to help him or IT...this is an insult - If the Khadrs do what they do for religious reasons then they are losers - if they do it for political reasons or reasons driven by hate then they are convicted under God and in time natural justice will take place - we must be patient.

[JB Globe]

lol...this to Army Guy who is on the scene as we speak. Maybe Mr Globe could do some social work in Afghanistan to show 15 year olds with AK-47s the ills of their ways, eh?? Should make a good YouTube video.

Translation - you're too much of an idiot to come up with an actual response.

[JB Globe]

When that bullet flies down range it doesn't matter if it was fired by a 15 or a 50 year old, it still does what its designed to do.

Agreed, obviously - but at the end of the day a bullet doesn't fire itself, a human being does. And my point is that the deadliness of a weapon doesn't have ANY bearing on the the issue here - If a child is too young to have legally been capable of mens rea - than that's the end of the story.

If 15 year old is considered too irresponsible to purchase a beer, or operate a car, how on earth can you make the argument that this same child is responsible enough to make the decision to kill another human being FULLY INDEPENDENT of manipulation by adults using this child for their own purposes?

[DogOnPorch]

Translation - you're too much of an idiot to come up with an actual response.

No. It means you're second guessing a soldier on the ground in Afghanistan about the nature of the war. In my books that makes you the idiot.

--------------------

FU2

[myata]

If 15 year old is considered too irresponsible to purchase a beer, or operate a car, how on earth can you make the argument that this same child is responsible enough to make the decision to kill another human being FULLY INDEPENDENT of manipulation by adults using this child for their own purposes?

They don't have to. This argument is based not on science, logic, or reason, but on ideology. Ideology that states that whatever is dangerous to us, resisting us, is bound to be bad, and must be punished at all cost.

One can't argue "I'm right because I'm" argument. One should choose carefully whether they want to support those who employ it. Because we all should know well by now, where the road with no principles or laws, but with an absolute appointer of right and wrong in their stead would lead to.

[Army Guy]

double post.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Army Guy

[Army Guy]

I don't have kids, but I can tell you that in a few years when I do, they'll know right in wrong not because of some genetic ability to do so, but because I TAUGHT THEM the difference.

I did not say it was some genetic ability, did I....And your making my point here for me, why is your child different from the millions around the globe, because your special, or the rest of the children did not have parents, or communities that taught them anything, like what was right and wrong....…....

What kind of nasty, pessimistic, cold-hearted, SOB are you that thinks that CHILDREN who (Very, very rarely) do these kinds of things do so simply because they chose to do so?

I'm the nasty, pessimistic, cold hearted SOB, who has just started his third tour in Afgan, I'm the guy who has seen a 10 year old bury a axe into the back of a capts head, I'm the guy that has seen a 12 year put 5 rounds into a comrades back,( now in wheel chair) because he steped over a young boy during a house clearing operation we all thought was to young to be a combatant....I'm the guy who has seen children strapped full of explosives walk into a crowded market and detonate himself, im the guy that seen a close friend tears steaming down his face, with our Sgt major screaming in his ears shot that prick before he gets any closer" You see that prick was less than 10 years old, he was approached our position, with an explosive chest rig on with enough explosives to send our entire position to Allah, and no he did not get a pass, nor did we that day….

So while children may very rarely do those horrible things in North America and your home town, they are daily occurrences over here, over here you become cold hearted or you get carried home. Why is that so hard for the very few of you to come to the same conclusion, that things are not the same around the globe….things are not always peachy and rosy.

Any rational person who knows even just a little bit about child psychology knows that a child kills a cat, either something isn't right at home (abuse) or they need help (mental illness).

And in a perfect world that would work would it not..... we are talking about a kid who grew up in a combat zone, not your hometown....where killing was the norm, from a very very young age he has been exposed, to life and death everyday...where at the age of 15 he is a man, not the little boy you see him at, he's attended terrorist training camps, been on live combat patrols, planted IED's and mines to KILL, and been in combat where people lived and died....and he is very much aware of his actions, and the consequences….

The ability of teenagers to make rational adult decisions differs from person to person - but 16 is the average, which is why we use that age as the point which teens can be charged with adult crimes. We can't start arbitrarily charging people younger than 16 with adult crimes just because some people with an ulterior motive are angry at them - because once you do that, there's no limit to how low you can go in age (I fully believe that there'd be people that would hold a 10 year old responsible if they hated Muslims enough to do so).

Is that what you think that I hate Muslims, then I would suggest that you reread my posts, because that is not the case, what I do hate is terrorists and the ones that would take advantage of children and use them to their advantage in this war....

Besides, by ignoring international law, we're giving other regimes the perfect excuse to ignore it even more than they do already.

By ignoring international law…..., I think you have things alittle clouded here. Reread the laws and conventions, there is no age limit mentioned once you fall into the combatant category your free game, your a target like everyone else. it is not until after the battle is over that children are afforded any special privileges....

And yes, unlike adults, they get a pass. Do you know why? Because they're CHILDREN. A kid with a gun is still a kid. Pulling a trigger doesn't make you a man. It's just makes you a little boy with a bigger and deadlier toy.

In your world they may get a pass, but not in mine, here in the real world, in Afgan young boys as young as 10 years old are receiving military training, they are going on live combat patrols, they are brainwashed into thinking killing infidels like Canadian soldiers is alright by mom and dad, shit they'll be awarded 101 virgins, note I said virgins not Tonka trucks or a new bikes, something for a young man or sorry "kid" to aspire to....

Me being a cold hearted, pessimistic, bastard has nothing to do with his condition, nor his teachings, not about the way he is brought up....but that does not mean I have to swallow a bullet so you can prove your point "deep down he is a kid" and he really does not know what he is doing...

And while the act of just pulling the trigger can be done by everyone old enough to stand....it does not disprove that most 15 year olds can make that leap and do know that pulling that trigger means something is going to die....They come from a country where they have seen it done a million times....

[Oleg Bach]

I did not say it was some genetic ability, did I....And your making my point here for me, why is your child different from the millions around the globe, because your special, or the rest of the children did not have parents, or communities that taught them anything, like what was right and wrong....…....

I'm the nasty, pessimistic, cold hearted SOB, who has just started his third tour in Afgan, I'm the guy who has seen a 10 year old bury a axe into the back of a capts head, I'm the guy that has seen a 12 year put 5 rounds into a comrades back,( now in wheel chair) because he steped over a young boy during a house clearing operation we all thought was to young to be a combatant....I'm the guy who has seen children strapped full of explosives walk into a crowded market and detonate himself, im the guy that seen a close friend tears steaming down his face, with our Sgt major screaming in his ears shot that prick before he gets any closer" You see that prick was less than 10 years old, he was approached our position, with an explosive chest rig on with enough explosives to send our entire position to Allah, and no he did not get a pass, nor did we that day….

So while children may very rarely do those horrible things in North America and your home town, they are daily occurrences over here, over here you become cold hearted or you get carried home. Why is that so hard for the very few of you to come to the same conclusion, that things are not the same around the globe….things are not always peachy and rosy.

And in a perfect world that would work would it not..... we are talking about a kid who grew up in a combat zone, not your hometown....where killing was the norm, from a very very young age he has been exposed, to life and death everyday...where at the age of 15 he is a man, not the little boy you see him at, he's attended terrorist training camps, been on live combat patrols, planted IED's and mines to KILL, and been in combat where people lived and died....and he is very much aware of his actions, and the consequences….

Is that what you think that I hate Muslims, then I would suggest that you reread my posts, because that is not the case, what I do hate is terrorists and the ones that would take advantage of children and use them to their advantage in this war....

By ignoring international law…..., I think you have things alittle clouded here. Reread the laws and conventions, there is no age limit mentioned once you fall into the combatant category your free game, your a target like everyone else. it is not until after the battle is over that children are afforded any special privileges....

In your world they may get a pass, but not in mine, here in the real world, in Afgan young boys as young as 10 years old are receiving military training, they are going on live combat patrols, they are brainwashed into thinking killing infidels like Canadian soldiers is alright by mom and dad, shit they'll be awarded 101 virgins, note I said virgins not Tonka trucks or a new bikes, something for a young man or sorry "kid" to aspire to....

Me being a cold hearted, pessimistic, bastard has nothing to do with his condition, nor his teachings, not about the way he is brought up....but that does not mean I have to swallow a bullet so you can prove your point "deep down he is a kid" and he really does not know what he is doing...

And while the act of just pulling the trigger can be done by everyone old enough to stand....it does not disprove that most 15 year olds can make that leap and do know that pulling that trigger means something is going to die....They come from a country where they have seen it done a million times....

Bullies are all cowards - and if you want to define class - and be called Your Grace in the old noble manner - you must understand what grace is - It is the underved mercy of God - If you have class and are really a civil human being - you will show the world that you are above their barbarity and grant this young man Grace - at this point - all we are doing is acting like Henchmen for the bored and rich Cheneyites - who take delight and glee and find a sense of manhood in sadism - power corrupts the human soul - and as we know we continue to maintain a cruel approach to Khdar because we pander to our American masters - I say bring him home - THEN - deport the whole damned ungrateful frinking family!