Explosion at Pakistan Marriott hotel kills 40

[DogOnPorch]

Let me put it that way: there's only 1 ( O N E ) country that pretends to like it

That doesn't answer my question. Hated by whom?

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...bed goes up...bed goes down...bed goes up...bed goes down...

---The Simpsons

[PoliticalCitizen]

That doesn't answer my question. Hated by whom?

Oh? Everyone else...

[DogOnPorch]

Oh? Everyone else...

Hated by whom? Too big o' words?

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From Hell's heart, I stab at thee...

---Star Trek

Edited September 22, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[PoliticalCitizen]

Hated by whom? Too big o' words?

Damn, forgot about Georgia... OK, ALMOST every country except USA.

Does this answer your question? Do you want us to continue in a separate thread ('cause it's got nothing to do with the Islamabad's Marriott bombing)

[Peter F]

These desparately poor countries wonder why they can never get ahead. Look what happens to anyone who deigns to visit or do business.

jbg, its just a guess, but I perhaps the guy who blew up the Marriot didn't give two shits about foreign investment. A shocking belief, I know.

You are mistaken to believe that that persons actions are reflective of the beliefs of an entire nations population.

I will go so far as to say: Very foolish to believe so.

[jbg]

Does this answer your question? Do you want us to continue in a separate thread ('cause it's got nothing to do with the Islamabad's Marriott bombing)

You are obviously missing my point. My point is that the Jewish people have ample cause for "anger" against many groups and you don't see them engaging in barbaric, senseless attacks.

[jbg]

jbg, its just a guess, but I perhaps the guy who blew up the Marriot didn't give two shits about foreign investment. A shocking belief, I know.

Does he give two pieces of excrement about the grinding poverty and misery most of the Muslim world suffers in.

You are mistaken to believe that that persons actions are reflective of the beliefs of an entire nations population. I will go so far as to say: Very foolish to believe so.

Are you volunteering to take a beach vacation near Karachi?

[WestViking]

Let me put it that way: there's only 1 ( O N E ) country that pretends to like it

Of course you mean Canada.

[udm]

Correct...the assertion as you posted, attributed solely to the "Americans" is patently false. You would have fared a little better by including NATO, UN, or other such international effort against terrorism...

Right. I'm wrong about all this because I called it the 'American "war on terrorism"' rather than the 'Righteous Free World's "war on terrorism"'. The Americans started the war, there's nothing wrong with me calling it theirs. But, I don't see how this even matters. If you're going to try and find irrelevant details like this to try and disprove my position... don't... just don't...

but even then you still have the fatal flaw of "origin", when any number of historical issues plague Pakistan, and have for many years.

I was the first one to point out the issue of secular violence in Pakistan, and I've mentioned it more than once. But if there are other issues that may relate to bombings and violence of such kind before the "war on terror", please bring any number of these historical issues to my attention, instead of just saying that they exist.

In fact, Al Qaeda's first organization (predating the so called "war on terror") is largely believed to be Pakistani in origin, further eroding your position.

Yes, the CIA and the Saudis financed al-Qaeda, and the ISI trained them to fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. They weren't taking part in suicide missions inside Pakistan at the time.

Fear not...your only crime was one of being imprecise. Many factors contributed to the rise in suicide bombings for Pakistan.

Please divulge further into these many factors.

Suicide bombings in Pakistan were simply unheard of before the "war on terror", and now they are numerous and abundant.

If the hotel attack was a truce I hate to see what a non-truce looks like.

The government was even able to work out a truce with

certain regional leaders

following General Musharraf's departure from the presidency.

Certain regional leaders, a select, particular, amount of them. Reading. Comprehension.

InNteresting how Israel, itself the victim of this mayhem with some frequency, would never indulge in an attack of this variety.

I have few questions for you. While it is true that the Americans may be bombing the tribal region, giving some cause for anger, do the Jews have any cause for anger in the world? Are the Jews engaging in bloodshed directed at Germans and Austrians over the Holocaust? Are the Jews engaging in bloodshed directed at Russians and Poles for the pogroms of the late 1800's and early 1900's? Are the Jews engaging in bloodshed directed at Spanish and Portugese for the Inquisition? Are the Jews engaging in bloodshed directed at Muslims, other than surgical strikes, for the constant senselss bloodbaths that are a fact of everyday life in Israel? Are the Americans engaging in bloodshed directed at British and Canadian people for burning the White House?

You get the picture.

While it's not right to compare Israel, a country, to disoriented groups of militants, I'll humour you for a bit.

To all your questions to do with wars and conflicts in the past:

In those wars, just like the conditions we are in today, there were two sides to the conflict and they fought against each other. Jews did engage in in bloodshed directed towards the Germans during the Holocaust, and rightly so, they were defending themselves. ... I don't know, I think that covers that...

As to Jews engaging in bloodshed directed at Muslims and the Israel-Palestine conflict:

Not all Jews engage in bloodshed directed at Muslims, just as not all Muslims engage in bloodshed directed at Jews.

However, in "protecting itself", Israel murders hundreds of Palestinian civilians for every Israeli that is killed by Palestinian militants. Israel has implemented an illegal blockade of Gaza, cutting off 1.5 from basic needs. The human-rights catastrophe is well documented by the UN. It's plain to who the bad guy is.

I'd rather I didn't go further into this, this discussion isn't about Israel and Palestine, it's about the recent upsurge in violence in Pakistan. Let's try to keep things on track from here on in.

See my questions above. Why do the tribal leaders, Palestinians, and Al Quaeda get a free pass?

First of all, it's so very wrong of you to use the word 'Palestinians' here, as this infers that all of them are militant aggressors fighting Israel. This, my friend, is called racism. I really hope you apologize for this.

Secondly, I don't understand what you mean by free pass. What are you saying? I really don't get it. What do you want to do? Kill them all? Kill all the terrorists? Is that possible?

Finally, once again, lets try and stay on topic. This is to everyone else that's gotten into talking about Israel as well. I'm sure there are other places to talk about that.

[jbg]

Of course you mean Canada.

The countries that hate Israel are generally sh*tholes that contribute more emigrants than product.

[Peter F]

Does he give two pieces of excrement about the grinding poverty and misery most of the Muslim world suffers in.

Goodness, jbg. The terrorists crime wasn't lack of concern for grinding poverty...the crime was murder - forty times over. Yet you insist on going on about how this will inhibit foriegn investment in Pakistan and what an idiot the terrorist is for not realizing that.

Hows about the guy was an idiot for not having any sense of humanity towards his fellow men? Hows that for a personal failing? Now there's something to criticize him for. ... Foriegn investment... Perhaps your anger would have been lessened had the terrorist just silently murdered 40 people in thier beds. That would have been a better thing eh?

Are you volunteering to take a beach vacation near Karachi?

Absolutely! Where do I pick up the tour package?

[jbg]

Goodness, jbg. The terrorists crime wasn't lack of concern for grinding poverty...the crime was murder - forty times over. Yet you insist on going on about how this will inhibit foriegn investment in Pakistan and what an idiot the terrorist is for not realizing that.

My point is that many people who consider themselves "progressive" say that the West is not doing enough for the Third and Fourth World. Isn't this a case in point as to why that part of the world is in such misery?

Hows about the guy was an idiot for not having any sense of humanity towards his fellow men? Hows that for a personal failing? Now there's something to criticize him for. ... Foriegn investment... Perhaps your anger would have been lessened had the terrorist just silently murdered 40 people in thier beds. That would have been a better thing eh?

I see your point. Why do Israel and the US receive such criticism for the stray civilian casualties of operations with legitimate military targets and there is not a word of criticism for the cowards that send others to their deaths to kill people whose identity they don't know or care about?

[moderateamericain]

Ahh yes the woes of the world blamed on the USA. I swear to god a muslim could slip on a gang walk on an oil derrick, fall and break his fool neck, and it would get blamed on the US. First of all the war on terror has only in the last month TOUCHED Pakistan outside of political pressure to stop the Pakistan (oops i mean Al queda) troops from firing on NATO troops in Afghanistan then scurrying back across the border. This attack came after Pakistan's president who had been working with President Bush to try to stem the violence was removed from office by the pakistani parliment. So pretty much all links to the war and terror were gone at the time of this attack. More over until we start bombing Pakistan villages I don't wanna hear crap about how they have been touched by the war on terror. Stop blaming everything on the USA and Own up to your own crap. You got a country full of pissed off dirt poor people. Think they might have a problem with that situation?

[udm]

Ahh yes the woes of the world blamed on the USA. I swear to god a muslim could slip on a gang walk on an oil derrick, fall and break his fool neck, and it would get blamed on the US.

Actually, we (the developed world) don't necessarily use the religion of Islam as the basis to to pick on people, i.e. South America, a very Christian place.

First of all the war on terror has only in the last month TOUCHED Pakistan outside of political pressure to stop the Pakistan (oops i mean Al queda) troops from firing on NATO troops in Afghanistan then scurrying back across the border.

Pakistan has been given more than $7 billion dollars since 2001 and been forced to take part in the "war on terror". Musharraf was literally called up and told, if he didn't comply, Pakistan would be 'bombed back into the stone-age'. So the "war on terror" has been TOUCHING Pakistan since it began.

This attack came after Pakistan's president who had been working with President Bush to try to stem the violence was removed from office by the pakistani parliment. So pretty much all links to the war and terror were gone at the time of this attack.

Please don't reply to me comments without actually reading my posts. This attack occurred after Musharraf's resignation, but hundreds of suicide attacks took place during his reign. To reiterate, fifty-six took place of them in 2007, at an average of more than one a week.

Stop blaming everything on the USA and Own up to your own crap. You got a country full of pissed off dirt poor people. Think they might have a problem with that situation?

My own crap eh? Here, I'll own up; Canada also has a hand in this because of our military's involvement in Afghanistan.

But yes, I do have a country full of pissed of dirt poor people. In fact, I have many countries that in that condition, a very large horrible amount. You do as well. You do live on planet earth don't you?

Just because these people that are entrenched in poverty don't live in your country... and/or have a different skin-tone, and/or practice a different religion, and/or implement a different system of economics and government... or anything... doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about them. It doesn't mean that their problems are theirs to fix or make worse, even though we were the cause of those problems and are actively involved in making them worse. It's disturbing how people are so extremely closed-minded and short-sighted. It's all about self-interest.

Capitalism and the free market are really very great aren't they? Yes, they are very very great for us, no reason to worry about how this system subjugates the third world into living a lesser way of life just so it can sustain ours. The fact that you can buy sneakers for $3 at Walmart is great news, there's no reason to be concerned about the plight of the children who make them.

[DogOnPorch]

But yes, I do have a country full of pissed of dirt poor people. In fact, I have many countries that in that condition, a very large horrible amount. You do as well. You do live on planet earth don't you?

Just because these people that are entrenched in poverty don't live in your country... and/or have a different skin-tone, and/or practice a different religion, and/or implement a different system of economics and government... or anything... doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about them. It doesn't mean that their problems are theirs to fix or make worse, even though we were the cause of those problems and are actively involved in making them worse. It's disturbing how people are so extremely closed-minded and short-sighted. It's all about self-interest.

So they do hate us for our freedoms. Kinda figured.

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Hollywood people are filled with guilt: white guilt, liberal guilt, money guilt.

---Drew Carey

[jbg]

Capitalism and the free market are really very great aren't they? Yes, they are very very great for us, no reason to worry about how this system subjugates the third world into living a lesser way of life just so it can sustain ours. The fact that you can buy sneakers for $3 at Walmart is great news, there's no reason to be concerned about the plight of the children who make them.

Is there anything other than "capitalism and the free market" that has succeeded in actually producing anything? Are you saying that if sneakers weren't selling at Walmart for $3 that the tribal areas of Pakistan would be solid, middle-class areas?

[bush_cheney2004]

So they do hate us for our freedoms. Kinda figured.

Krikey...you mean Bush has been right all along? Well, they do have Ramadan if that helps.

[Army Guy]

Right. I'm wrong about all this because I called it the 'American "war on terrorism"' rather than the 'Righteous Free World's "war on terrorism"'. The Americans started the war, there's nothing wrong with me calling it theirs. But, I don't see how this even matters. If you're going to try and find irrelevant details like this to try and disprove my position... don't... just don't...

I'd be curious to know just how the US started the the war on terror, where things quite at the white house and they just randomily picked Afganistan, and said hey lets have a war, call it the war on terror.....or was this whole war on terror started when serveral nut bars drove planes into some buildings killing over 3000 people.

Pakistan has been given more than $7 billion dollars since 2001 and been forced to take part in the "war on terror". Musharraf was literally called up and told, if he didn't comply, Pakistan would be 'bombed back into the stone-age'. So the "war on terror" has been TOUCHING Pakistan since it began.

They were forced to take more than 7 bil dollars in aid, and military funding ? then the US government had the nerve to ask the Pakistani government to control thier own borders, to keep thier problems from spilling into afganistan....

But you go beyond that and make the bold statement that someone actually called up Musharraf and threaten him with " Pakistan would be 'bombed back into the stone-age" if he did not comply.... Could you please provide a quote on that on who called, when they called you know some basic facts....

Please don't reply to me comments without actually reading my posts. This attack occurred after Musharraf's resignation, but hundreds of suicide attacks took place during his reign. To reiterate, fifty-six took place of them in 2007, at an average of more than one a week.

But it is much easier to package them all up in a nice little box with a fancy bow and say, to the world see this is all the US fault....it had nothing to do with the Pakistani government and it's decisions it made to control a portion of thier own country, trying to contain refugees or pakistani pushtuns from entering Afganistan for one purpose only...."So they are linked to the war on terror"....But thats not what this is about....it's not about pakistan not be able to control a porous border, which allows terrorist to come and go, when they please ,giving them a huge advantage when operating in Afgan again'st NATO soldiers....No it's about blaming the US , despite what the terrorist scumbags do....

Just because these people that are entrenched in poverty don't live in your country... and/or have a different skin-tone, and/or practice a different religion, and/or implement a different system of economics and government... or anything... doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about them.

Sort me out here we should care about them but we should'nt get involved, what is it that your trying to say here....and your right it's all about self interest no matter how thin you slice it....

It doesn't mean that their problems are theirs to fix or make worse, even though we were the cause of those problems and are actively involved in making them worse. It's disturbing how people are so extremely closed-minded and short-sighted. It's all about self-interest.

Capitalism and the free market are really very great aren't they? Yes, they are very very great for us, no reason to worry about how this system subjugates the third world into living a lesser way of life just so it can sustain ours. The fact that you can buy sneakers for $3 at Walmart is great news, there's no reason to be concerned about the plight of the children who make them.

This is the part i'm suppose to take my hanky out and wipe away the tears right, Capitalism and the free market are what built most western countries, if you feel guilty about having so much then move, another great option of Capitalism and the free market your not forced to take part....And while you are quick to piont our our shortfalls you neglected to piont out that any of it's good pionts, maybe you where saving that for another post.....And just how many Canadians actually question why or for that matter give a shit....how Walmart can sell sneakers at 3 dollars, would they actually put them back if they were made in China, pakistan...or what ever country.... and that is a big leap on your part to suggest that they might all be made by child labour...

[PoliticalCitizen]

You are obviously missing my point. My point is that the Jewish people have ample cause for "anger" against many groups and you don't see them engaging in barbaric, senseless attacks.

I got your point.

There's a very clear distinction between the evil state of Israel and Jewish people in general. I live surrounded by Jewish people (in a Russian-speaking Jewish region of Toronto) and most of them are very nice people and have helped me on numerous occasions. ALL of them have LEFT ISRAEL because of the constant WAR.

Israel is a murderous Zionist formation who's bloody vengeance formula is 10 "enemy" lives for every one of theirs. The citizens of Israel that do not serve in the army do not have to engage in "barbaric, senseless attacks" because their military does it for them, largely through the use of unmanned aircraft.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Of course you mean Canada.

I meant US of A, grace to whom Israel exists.

If a referendum would be held most likely more than half of Canadians would disapprove of Israel's actions. There may be some hate but definitely no love...

[PoliticalCitizen]

The countries that hate Israel are generally sh*tholes that contribute more emigrants than product.

The sh!tholes governments can air their hatred towards the Zionist state freely.

The governments of European countries have to TRY to be nice, whereas the population of these countries is free to despise and hate Israel which it does to a large extent.

Now let me ask you a question - can you name a country neighboring Israel, or even in Israel's vicinity (should we go as far as the continent?) with whom the Zionist state maintains friendly economic, political, or any other kind of relations?

[DogOnPorch]

The sh!tholes governments can air their hatred towards the Zionist state freely.

The governments of European countries have to TRY to be nice, whereas the population of these countries is free to despise and hate Israel which it does to a large extent.

Now let me ask you a question - can you name a country neighboring Israel, or even in Israel's vicinity (should we go as far as the continent?) with whom the Zionist state maintains friendly economic, political, or any other kind of relations?

Zionist state...lol. Don't you mean "Zionist Entity"?

Greece comes to mind. Turkey would be another. Egypt and Jordan on a good day.

-------------------------------------

Here's your one chance, Fancy, don't let me down...

---Reba

[moderateamericain]

I'd be curious to know just how the US started the the war on terror, where things quite at the white house and they just randomily picked Afganistan, and said hey lets have a war, call it the war on terror.....or was this whole war on terror started when serveral nut bars drove planes into some buildings killing over 3000 people.

They were forced to take more than 7 bil dollars in aid, and military funding ? then the US government had the nerve to ask the Pakistani government to control thier own borders, to keep thier problems from spilling into afganistan....

But you go beyond that and make the bold statement that someone actually called up Musharraf and threaten him with " Pakistan would be 'bombed back into the stone-age" if he did not comply.... Could you please provide a quote on that on who called, when they called you know some basic facts....

But it is much easier to package them all up in a nice little box with a fancy bow and say, to the world see this is all the US fault....it had nothing to do with the Pakistani government and it's decisions it made to control a portion of thier own country, trying to contain refugees or pakistani pushtuns from entering Afganistan for one purpose only...."So they are linked to the war on terror"....But thats not what this is about....it's not about pakistan not be able to control a porous border, which allows terrorist to come and go, when they please ,giving them a huge advantage when operating in Afgan again'st NATO soldiers....No it's about blaming the US , despite what the terrorist scumbags do....

Sort me out here we should care about them but we should'nt get involved, what is it that your trying to say here....and your right it's all about self interest no matter how thin you slice it....

This is the part i'm suppose to take my hanky out and wipe away the tears right, Capitalism and the free market are what built most western countries, if you feel guilty about having so much then move, another great option of Capitalism and the free market your not forced to take part....And while you are quick to piont our our shortfalls you neglected to piont out that any of it's good pionts, maybe you where saving that for another post.....And just how many Canadians actually question why or for that matter give a shit....how Walmart can sell sneakers at 3 dollars, would they actually put them back if they were made in China, pakistan...or what ever country.... and that is a big leap on your part to suggest that they might all be made by child labour...

Thanks Army, I was busy at work and didnt have a chance to respond, since you took the words right out of my mouth I agree 100 percent with your post. Let me also say, I was not responding to your post at all. I would have quoted you UDM.

[GostHacked]

History tells us otherwise....from suicide missions during WW2, bombings in Algeria/Italy/Spain, suicide bombers during the Vietnam War, IRA bombings in the UK, Palestinian suicide attacks, and of course 9/11....all of which happened before the so called American "war on terror".

Definition of insanity : Trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Army Guy

I'd be curious to know just how the US started the the war on terror, where things quite at the white house and they just randomily picked Afganistan, and said hey lets have a war, call it the war on terror.....or was this whole war on terror started when serveral nut bars drove planes into some buildings killing over 3000 people.

The war on terror started long before 9/11.

Even when the Taliban had offered to hand over Al-Queda persons, the USA refused. Afghanistan was invaded.

Now that the Taliban and Bin Laden are hiding out in the remote area's of Pakistan, the US is now respecting borders and not going in to get the Taliban or Bin Laden. They do not want to upset an ally on teh War on terror. So, since Pakistan can be considered harbouring terrorists. They are not 'with' us anymore... correct??

[PoliticalCitizen]

Zionist state...lol. Don't you mean "Zionist Entity"?

Greece comes to mind. Turkey would be another. Egypt and Jordan on a good day.

I mean what I said. It is a state and it is Zionist.

I'm glad to hear it has at least some friends. Makes me feel better for all the Russian-speaking "Jews" trapped there