Canada-EU trade proposal rivals scope of NAFTA

Drea · September 20, 2008

This is great news IMO and I wonder why Harper isn't sharing it with us before the election.

Well, let's find out what everyone on MLW thinks!

LONDON — Canadian and European officials say they plan to begin negotiating a massive agreement to integrate Canada's economy with the 27 nations of the European Union, with preliminary talks to be launched at an Oct. 17 summit in Montreal three days after the federal election.
Trade Minister Michael Fortier and his staff have been engaged for the past two months with EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson and the representatives of European governments in an effort to begin what a senior EU official involved in the talks described in an interview yesterday as “deep economic integration negotiations.”

Check out the comments... seems most are supportive of the idea.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Drea

Wild Bill · September 20, 2008

This is great news IMO and I wonder why Harper isn't sharing it with us before the election. Is he afraid, perhaps, of the reactions of his supporters on the far right?
Well, let's find out what everyone on MLW thinks!

Canada-EU trade proposal rivals scope of NAFTA

Check out the comments... seems most are supportive of the idea.

More trade is always welcome and it's always a good idea to diversify your business. One customer's business drops but another's may increase, helping to protect the overall balance.

That being said, America will ALWAYS have a huge advantage in shipping costs, being right next door instead of across an ocean. I use a lot of vacuum tubes that are made in China, Russia and Europe and the prices have gone up at least 15% in the last few months due to higher fuel costs in shipping.

whowhere · September 21, 2008

This is great news IMO and I wonder why Harper isn't sharing it with us before the election.
Well, let's find out what everyone on MLW thinks!

Canada-EU trade proposal rivals scope of NAFTA

Check out the comments... seems most are supportive of the idea.

I don't believe Harper on this. I believe he is vote pandering.

Drea · September 21, 2008

If it were simply pandering for votes, wouldn't he be mentioning it on the campaign trail?

Harper could score a kudo or two for diversifying our trade

OR

it could really piss of his supporters who believe that Europe is some socialist wasteland and the only worthwhile trading partner is the USA.

In light of what's happening with the US economy, it would behoove us to take this seriously.

Too bad not many on MLW think this topic is of any importance at all. Guess it's just not as "sexy" as Palin/Obama or Jack's pot smokin' MPs. LOL

kengs333 · September 21, 2008

Quite frankly, Europe should be our key partner: we should be looking to Europe and not the US or Asia, or anywhere else. The US is a mess, culturally, socially, economically, and it's best that we distance ourselves from it again, regardless of its proximity.

blueblood · September 21, 2008

I hope Fortier gets a good deal because the Europeans are snake oil salesmen when it comes to free trade. Europe activly screws Canada over on a regular basis when it comes to trade, we are much better expanding our trade with the US.

kengs333 · September 22, 2008

Oh, yeah, the Americans never screw us--if they get things there way...

cybercoma · September 22, 2008

If it's not obvious by now that we need to expand our exports, then might I suggest checking yourself for a pulse. Having all of our eggs in Uncle Sam's basket is extremely short-sighted. It's about time we started looking out for number one.

Drea · September 22, 2008

If it's not obvious by now that we need to expand our exports, then might I suggest checking yourself for a pulse. Having all of our eggs in Uncle Sam's basket is extremely short-sighted. It's about time we started looking out for number one.

Cyber, any reason (that you know of) that Harper isn't telling us about this prior to the election?

I think many would support it and might even garner him some additional votes.

M.Dancer · September 22, 2008

Quite frankly, Europe should be our key partner: we should be looking to Europe and not the US or Asia, or anywhere else. The US is a mess, culturally, socially, economically, and it's best that we distance ourselves from it again, regardless of its proximity.

Well, until they build either a railway or super highway to Europe, The US will still be our best partner.

Michael Hardner · September 22, 2008

Drea,

Thanks for posting this - I can't believe it has been lost the middle of a Federal election. My take on this is that it would be great news for Canada.

I believe that the EU shuts out foreign agriculture with stiff tariffs, so this would create new markets for our products. Our labour is generally cheaper, so there would be opportunities for services as well. European goods would drop in price as well, presumably including items that have been previously considered luxury items such as cars or wine.

I believe that the general public is fearful of trade pacts, and that is why this hasn't been brought out yet by the government. The opposition parties may want to see how this plays out before they react as well. If this is new, then taking a position on the issue this early in the game may be too risky.

cybercoma · September 22, 2008

Cyber, any reason (that you know of) that Harper isn't telling us about this prior to the election?
I think many would support it and might even garner him some additional votes.

Perhaps the leak is intentional and they're testing the waters of public opinion before taking full ownership of it. I'm really not sure, that's purely speculation on my part.

Michael Hardner · September 22, 2008

Cyber, I feel you could be right.

The way these things tend to go is as a focus group or phone survey question first, followed by a press leak to test the waters.

That is, after all, how they do it with Pop Tarts so why shouldn't it work with policy ?

That last statement, by the way, was sarcastic.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Michael Hardner

cybercoma · September 22, 2008

I swear to god, the next essay I write for a political science class is going to be titled:$

Pop Tarts and Prime Ministerial Power: How Canadians Control Parliament

kengs333 · September 22, 2008

I swear to god, the next essay I write for a political science class is going to be titled:$
Pop Tarts and Prime Ministerial Power: How Canadians Control Parliament

Are you still in high school?

blueblood · September 22, 2008

Oh, yeah, the Americans never screw us--if they get things there way...

In terms of agriculture, the Europeans have really screwed us over. Then there's the seals and god knows what else.

Drea · September 22, 2008

In terms of agriculture, the Europeans have really screwed us over. Then there's the seals and god knows what else.

In what way, Blueblood, has Europe "screwed us over" in regard to agriculture?

...the seals? We really ought to find a more humane way to kill them -- really we don't club steers over the head, why seals? Get a bullet for goodness sake.

As far as "god knows what else" -- this is what I meant when I said that some of Harper's supporters would be up-in-arms because they are ignorant of anything beyond the US and Canada.

Harper is doing the right thing (pun unintended LOL) by not using this in his campaign... too many of his supporters are of Blueblood's ilk.

Cheers!

Smallc · September 22, 2008

In terms of agriculture, the Europeans have really screwed us over.

So has the US. They unfairly subsidize their farmers at huge amounts in comparison to our subsidies and they won't stop no matter how much we complain.

bush_cheney2004 · September 22, 2008

So has the US. They unfairly subsidize their farmers at huge amounts in comparison to our subsidies and they won't stop no matter how much we complain.

Why should they stop....Canada has it's unfair share of subsidies and outright dumping...from dairy to aircraft parts. Play the game to win or take your ball and go home.

blueblood · September 22, 2008

In what way, Blueblood, has Europe "screwed us over" in regard to agriculture?
...the seals? We really ought to find a more humane way to kill them -- really we don't club steers over the head, why seals? Get a bullet for goodness sake.

As far as "god knows what else" -- this is what I meant when I said that some of Harper's supporters would be up-in-arms because they are ignorant of anything beyond the US and Canada.

Harper is doing the right thing (pun unintended LOL) by not using this in his campaign... too many of his supporters are of Blueblood's ilk.

Cheers!

Lets see, their import ban on GMO's, their ridiculous subsidies to agriculture which results in extremely cheap European grain to flood the world market putting 3rd world ag producers out of business and hurting Canadian ag producers. Their sky high tariffs regarding ag imports from Canada. We have a much better deal with the Americans in terms of agriculture than the europeans.

As for the seals, bullet holes don't make for nice fur coats. Bullets cost money and gun ownership in Canada is a quagmire. Who knows, maybe clubbing them is humane, how do I know, I'm not a sealer. Trying to impose trade action because killing seals is cruel is proposterous, yet they are allowed to torture bulls in Spain in stadiums.

This is how Europeans do business, stupidly. We have a much more productive and lucarative deal with the US and the Pacific Rim. As far as I'm concerned Europe can smarten up or go fly a kite.

blueblood · September 22, 2008

So has the US. They unfairly subsidize their farmers at huge amounts in comparison to our subsidies and they won't stop no matter how much we complain.

We also export to the US, they let us import GMO's, the Europeans shut the door.

Even though the US subsidizes, they have been a much better ag market than Europe. I can send a B train of roundup ready to the states no problem, Europe is a different story.

Drea · September 23, 2008

Lets see, their import ban on GMO's, their ridiculous subsidies to agriculture which results in extremely cheap European grain to flood the world market putting 3rd world ag producers out of business and hurting Canadian ag producers. Their sky high tariffs regarding ag imports from Canada. We have a much better deal with the Americans in terms of agriculture than the europeans.

Currently, we have a much better deal with the US, because we have NAFTA.

If we were to enter into an agreement with the EU, current tariffs etc. would obviously be reviewed and removed or altered.

Until the US and Canada agreed* on the terms of NAFTA, tariffs played a huge role in inhibiting trade betweern us.

*agreement is subjective -- did we ever really "agree"?

As for the seals, bullet holes don't make for nice fur coats. Bullets cost money and gun ownership in Canada is a quagmire. Who knows, maybe clubbing them is humane, how do I know, I'm not a sealer. Trying to impose trade action because killing seals is cruel is proposterous, yet they are allowed to torture bulls in Spain in stadiums.

Yes, I see your point but there are babysealhuggers everywhere, not just Europe. Perhaps our "greenies" can protest their bullfights in the future?

This is how Europeans do business, stupidly. We have a much more productive and lucarative deal with the US and the Pacific Rim. As far as I'm concerned Europe can smarten up or go fly a kite.

The EU seems to be doing okay economically...

The "lucrative" deal with the US is no longer secure. I agree that the Pacific Rim is a viable alternative, not as a replacement for trade with the US and the EU, but in addition to it.

The more customers I have the better off I am if one of them decides to use the competitor. Basic sales.

blueblood · September 23, 2008

Currently, we have a much better deal with the US, because we have NAFTA.
If we were to enter into an agreement with the EU, current tariffs etc. would obviously be reviewed and removed or altered.

Until the US and Canada agreed* on the terms of NAFTA, tariffs played a huge role in inhibiting trade betweern us.

*agreement is subjective -- did we ever really "agree"?

Yes, I see your point but there are babysealhuggers everywhere, not just Europe. Perhaps our "greenies" can protest their bullfights in the future?

The EU seems to be doing okay economically...

The "lucrative" deal with the US is no longer secure. I agree that the Pacific Rim is a viable alternative, not as a replacement for trade with the US and the EU, but in addition to it.

The more customers I have the better off I am if one of them decides to use the competitor. Basic sales.

The US can turn the tap off on us, they did it with BSE because of health issues, why don't they ban GMO's? Hence the beef with Europe. They don't play fair. I'd like an agreement, but judging how Europe does business I am skeptical.

The Pacific rim is a much bigger market than the EU, then there is India and potentially Africa when they get their act together. Europe is a shitshow as far as trade issues are concerned, the asians have also been really good to us, better than the europeans and no nafta style treaty to boot.

I agree with the animal lovers, tit for tat as far as I'm concerned.

I'd say the more better customers I have the better off I am. Hence why casinos in vegas and ag retailers have their "whales". I like my big whale down south and the big whale out east, Europe has a ways to go.

Drea · September 23, 2008

But the one big whale is pretty much broke!

Why depend on two large customers when you could have two large customers, one medium customer and a buncha little ones to boot?

The only way to economically protect ourselves is to have access to those with buying power. That would be historically the US, but this is changing. European money is no longer moving to America and if we want to access that money, we have to make changes among our trading partners.

One does not need to dump one trading partner for another. Just add to the party! LOL

Edited September 23, 2008 by Drea

blueblood · September 23, 2008

But the one big whale is pretty much broke!
Why depend on two large customers when you could have two large customers, one medium customer and a buncha little ones to boot?

The only way to economically protect ourselves is to have access to those with buying power. That would be historically the US, but this is changing. European money is no longer moving to America and if we want to access that money, we have to make changes among our trading partners.

One does not need to dump one trading partner for another. Just add to the party! LOL

The ag retailers have their big whales, because they pay, pay well and are a reliable gold mine. When Europe proves they are whale material, they can play too, so far I haven't seen much for helping their cause.

And if Europe dances to our tune then fine. But Europeans are historically a pain in the ass. The Americans still have a very well run economy and will soon be out of this mess when the market corrects itself.