whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 What are you going to do with all the excess production, which wouldn't even exist were it not for the American market and American/foreign capital. The US actually exported Alaskan crude to Asia for many years up until about 2000.There are many things that the US has and you don't....this is one of them. Better check out NAFTA too: What Does NAFTA Say About Energy Exports? Canada’s trade in energy products with the United States and Mexico is governed by the rules found in Chapter 6 of NAFTA, “Energy and Basic Petrochemicals.” The scope of NAFTA Chapter 6 is such that it includes virtually all forms of energy, ranging from uranium to fossil fuels to electricity. Only a handful of energy products, none of them significant, are exempt. There are four specific clauses within NAFTA Chapter 6 that directly or indirectly affect Canada’s ability to restrict exports: Article 603(2) prohibits the use of minimum or maximum export-price requirements in cases where restrictions on the volume of exports are prohibited. Article 604 explicitly prohibits NAFTA members from imposing any export tax or duty on the sale of energy or petrochemical products, unless the same tax is placed on all NAFTA members, including the exporting party. Article 605 outlines the conditions under which Canada can restrict energy exports. It can do so only if all of the following conditions apply: -exports as a percentage of total Canadian supply do not fall; -Canada cannot charge a higher price to the United States or Mexico by means of taxes, licence fees, minimum prices or any other regulation; and -any restriction cannot result from a disruption of normal supply channels. -Article 607 outlines four specific national security-related scenarios under which energy exports could be restricted: to fulfil a defence contract or supply a military establishment; -to respond to a situation of armed conflict; -to implement policies related to the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons; and -to respond to threats of disruption in the supply of nuclear materials for defence purposes. These four clauses apply only to Canada and the United States. Mexico reserves the right to control its own energy industries in most cases and is explicitly exempt from the provisions of Articles 605 and 607. http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/...s/prb0633-e.htm I find it hard to believe NAFTA is ok with the US Law but if Canada enacts the same law NAFTA is not ok with it. Nonsense. As soon as Barack wins the white house, he is going to scrap NAFTA anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I find it hard to believe NAFTA is ok with the US Law but if Canada enacts the same law NAFTA is not ok with it. Nonsense. As soon as Barack wins the white house, he is going to scrap NAFTA anyway. You better believe that NAFTA is OK with the law.....after what happened to Alberta with the NEP oil abortion in the '80s, Canada signed right up, happy to get distillate exports from the USA (and still does). Barack Obama isn't going to scrap NAFTA anymore than the two bit posturing BS we get from Ottawa come election time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGuard Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) After Watching Lou Dobbs Tonight it appears the US has a law (OCS lands Act) requiring all oil extracted in the US is to be sold and made available to the US... To add some context, The OCS Lands Act, aka The Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, applies only to off-shore resource extraction (which is currently banned until Congress gets off their rears, anyways). Furthermore, there is not a broad, mandatory, or permanent condition that all oil produced from the OCS be used only for domestic consumption - Lou Dobbs sold you a tale, or you misunderstood. What OCSLA does is grant the US government right of first purchase to a small portion of the resources. They can also ask for the royalties to be paid in resources rather than cash, and the royalties count against the portion the government has right of first purchase on. The government must pay fair market value for resources purchased. Another clause is that, in a time of war, the President can make an order to claim First Right of Refusal on all production - but the government must *still* may full market value. OCSLA does not do what you claim. It has clauses to *fairly* ensure 'first dibbs' in extremely limited cases. It is neither intended to, nor capable of, allowing widescale nationalization of the oil industry. Source: Minerals Management Service Edited July 16, 2008 by NorthGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGuard Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 To address the other half of the argument, as some said, land-based oil does not belong to Canada, and is not under the jurisdiction of the Federal government. Resources belong to the Province, and once a province sells the mineral rights to an interested party, said party owns the resource, and they may do as they please with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Stupid OP but other posters have dealt with the errors elsewhere. A short time ago, the Winnipeg Free Press ran a story comparing prices before and after tax. US prices are .10 less before tax for some reason. European prices are higher than Canadian prices before tax.I haven't seen that article but I have wondered about this too.First, it's hard to understand how taxes have an impact on the price to consumers. Second, what taxes? For example, how do different payroll taxes (or health care costs) affect the selling price of gasoline? Third, local market conditions. I suspect that more gasoline is sold in the US in competitive market conditions than elsewhere in the world. In Europe, for example, I wouldn't be surprised if profit margins get dissipated in various rents that probably wouldn't exist in the US. ---- Other interesting examples are laptop computers and cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 - Lou Dobbs sold you a tale, or you misunderstood. I see how those on this Forum roll. Now you are calling Lou Dobbs a liar or question my comprehension. Ok Direct Quotes CNN/LOU DOBBS/CARRIE LEE "The US consumes 21 MILLION Barrels of oil a day, that's 4 times as much as we (US) produce. The minerals management service, a unit of the interior department (US Government) estimates our (US) offshore areas contain a total 85 BILLION Barrels of oil. That is more than 10 years worth of supply at todays levels. BY LAW ANY OIL EXTRACTED IN THE US STAYS IN THE US." Chris Oynes, Minerals Management Service (US Government) "The Ocs Lands Act requires that companies that produce off the outer continental shelf have to have that oil production be used and transported to the United States rather than shipped somewhere else" CNN/Loub Dobbs/ Carrie Lee "But, whoever leases the land for exploration can be US or foreign owned" John Kingston, Platts Global Energy "More competition is better, it brings in more money for the federal government" CNN/Lou Dobbs/Carrie Lee "So, the government is making as much as it can from these leases, but americans are still paying record amounts for gas." There you have it. Pretty Clear Cut. If the US can have a law "BY LAW ANY OIL EXTRACTED IN THE US STAYS IN THE US" Its time Canada passes the same law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I see how you roll. You are definately a card carrying liberal or conservative. I'm sure you are certifiable yourself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I see how those on this Forum roll. Now you are calling Lou Dobbs a liar or question my comprehension. Lou Dobbs is not just a liar...he is a xenophobic liar. I'm sure you can find better liars on your side of the border. The US exports refined petroleum products (from "US oil") around the world, including Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 The only problem with that law in the US doesn't produce much oil within its own country, so what's the point of having the law. I saw on the CBC last weekend about Alberta's oil industry and it seems every country in the world is in Alberta taking the oil and leaving Alberta's land ready for landfills! I couldn't believe what the oil sands industry is doing to Northern Alberta and after the sands are done as I say, ship the country's garbage to fill them up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'm sure you are certifiable yourself.... At least I am looking out for Canada and Canadians, not selling them out for my consertative/liberal buddies. oink oink (dictionary.com) Whore [Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) ] 2. to act as a whore. Whore [American Heritage Dictionary] 3. A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain. whore [WordNet] 3. compromise oneself for money or other gains; "She whored herself to Hollywood It's quite simple you are for Canada/Canadians or you are a treasonous/whore. CANADIANS FIRST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Lou Dobbs is not just a liar...he is a xenophobic liar. I'm sure you can find better liars on your side of the border. The US exports refined petroleum products (from "US oil") around the world, including Canada. Chris Oynes, Minerals Management Service (US Government) "The Ocs Lands Act requires that companies that produce off the outer continental shelf have to have that oil production be used and transported to the United States rather than shipped somewhere else" It's not just lou dobbs, you are getting the info right from the horses mouth (US government). Imagine if Canada passed the same law, what it would do for oil prices within Canada!!!. Its quite obvious Canada has to take the next step and refine its oil and export the gasoline to the US rather than the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Imagine if Canada passed the same law, what it would do for oil prices within Canada!!!. Nothing much at all. The excess production that you would in a totalitarian fashoin forbid to sell overseas would force the layoffs of 10s of thousands, our dollar which is bouyed by oil and rsources would fall causing import prices to climb again. We would still be importing oil because not all the oil that comes out of the ground is the same and the price of oil is set on the world market. I couldn't think of a better way to ruin the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 ...It's not just lou dobbs, you are getting the info right from the horses mouth (US government). Imagine if Canada passed the same law, what it would do for oil prices within Canada!!!. Its quite obvious Canada has to take the next step and refine its oil and export the gasoline to the US rather than the other way around. US oil production is very diversified....not so simple minded. Canada can't do jack to impact world oil prices based on current and future contracts, spot price, and consumption. Hell, Canada isn't even a top ten producer of oil last time I checked. Lou Dobbs also thinks that Canada is a huge menace to the USA because of the Langley-Lynden drug tunnel. Canada already exports gasoline to the US....I buy some every week for a lower price than you. East-west distribution in Canada is a challenge you will need to fix first, then you will have to deal with the armed rebellion in Alberta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hell, Canada isn't even a top ten producer of oil last time I checked. Hell, check again. #7 with a bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 US oil production is very diversified....not so simple minded. Canada can't do jack to impact world oil prices based on current and future contracts, spot price, and consumption. Hell, Canada isn't even a top ten producer of oil last time I checked. Lou Dobbs also thinks that Canada is a huge menace to the USA because of the Langley-Lynden drug tunnel. Canada already exports gasoline to the US....I buy some every week for a lower price than you. East-west distribution in Canada is a challenge you will need to fix first, then you will have to deal with the armed rebellion in Alberta! Well its quite simple pass the same law. If the law is good for the US. Its good for Canada. Logic states Supply in Canada will immensly outstrip demand for oil produced in Canada. The dynamics of this will be lower prices for Canadians. If there is any oil leftover after Canadians get their fill, then ship it out. Canada has a law, the war measures act. The act allows the Government to send in the army to preserve the peace. Originally targeted towards Quebec Separatists but easily adaptable to an Alberta rebellion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hell, check again.#7 with a bullet Ahh.....good to see such an improvement....still a ways to go to catch 'dem Mexicans, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Canada has a law, the war measures act. Once again your superficial knowledge hamstrings you. The war measures act hasn't been law since 1988. Originally targeted towards Quebec Separatists but easily adaptable to an Alberta rebellion. No, you are batting poorly. The War Measures act came into being in 1914 as a result of the First World War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ahh.....good to see such an improvement....still a ways to go to catch 'dem Mexicans, eh? Not really. Mexico is # 6 and is ahead be about 1000 barrels a day (average). Mexico's oip production is apparently decreasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Well its quite simple pass the same law. If the law is good for the US. Its good for Canada. Errr...Canada and the USA have different forms of government. You will find that several provinces won't have much enthusiasm for the "US law". Logic states Supply in Canada will immensly outstrip demand for oil produced in Canada. The dynamics of this will be lower prices for Canadians. If there is any oil leftover after Canadians get their fill, then ship it out. Why should Canadian producers (with a lot of foreign capital) give away petroleum for peanuts when they can get a world market price? Canada has a law, the war measures act. The act allows the Government to send in the army to preserve the peace. Originally targeted towards Quebec Separatists but easily adaptable to an Alberta rebellion. It didn't work.....Quebec is still rebelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Why should Canadian producers (with a lot of foreign capital) give away petroleum for peanuts when they can get a world market price? Naturally they wouldn't. Nations with cheap oil, have their fuel subsidized. Instead of paying down the debt, alleviating poverty or fixing the infrastructure, nations like venuzuela use tax dollars that could be spent on those things to keep fuel prices down. Cheap gas is the ultimate wish of the uneducated socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Once again your superficial knowledge hamstrings you. The war measures act hasn't been law since 1988. No, you are batting poorly. The War Measures act came into being in 1914 as a result of the First World War. Trudeau enacted some law in the 70's to send in the army against Quebec. A law that could be used against any other province just as easily. I doubt very much the politicians would willingly remove a power allowing them to crush armed dissent. Last time I checked Ontario and Quebec holds a huge influence on the party who forms the government. If gas prices keep going the way they are it is only a matter of time before the people of Ontario and Quebec wake up and know it is in their interest to elect politicians who support the passing of a similar law to the US requiring oil production be used and transported to Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Naturally they wouldn't. Nations with cheap oil, have their fuel subsidized. Instead of paying down the debt, alleviating poverty or fixing the infrastructure, nations like venuzuela use tax dollars that could be spent on those things to keep fuel prices down.Cheap gas is the ultimate wish of the uneducated socialist. So how do Characterize the Bush welfare checks. A family of four got $1800, $600 for adults, $300 for children. Where's my rebate/welfare check/cheque?????? I am waiting for my $600 bucks Canada!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 So how do Characterize the Bush welfare checks. A family of four got $1800, $600 for adults, $300 for children. Where's my rebate/welfare check/cheque?????? I am waiting for my $600 bucks Canada!! Move to Alberta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 So how do Characterize the Bush welfare checks. A family of four got $1800, $600 for adults, $300 for children. Where's my rebate/welfare check/cheque?????? I am waiting for my $600 bucks Canada!! Why do you think that the government of Canada owes you cheap gas? suck it up buttercup - drive less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Why do you think that the government of Canada owes you cheap gas?suck it up buttercup - drive less. Of course...but I think it frosts his cookies to know that those damn 'merkins are paying ten cents less per liter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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