whowhere Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hi All, After Watching Lou Dobbs Tonight it appears the US has a law (OCS lands Act) requiring all oil extracted in the US is to be sold and made available to the US. Hmmmm, considering Canada is an exporter of oil, yet we are paying more for our gas at the pump than the US who happens to imports 80% of their oil is absolutely ridiculous. If all that oil was made available to Canada first. What would that do for the cost of oil for Canada and Canadians? What's good for the US has to be good for Canada. I propose we pass a similar law requiring all oil produced in Canada to be made available to Canada FIRST!!! After we get our oil, only then do we export!!!! It's time we stop subsidizing world demand at our/Canadian's expense. By the way Venezula is also an exporter of oil but yet the country is kind enough to provide oil to its citizens at 40 cents a gallon. Yeah, 40 cents a gallon or 5.00 a gallon? Spread the word about this US law and tell your politicians you want a similar law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hi All,After Watching Lou Dobbs Tonight it appears the US has a law (OCS lands Act) requiring all oil extracted in the US is to be sold and made available to the US. Hmmmm, considering Canada is an exporter of oil, yet we are paying more for our gas at the pump than the US who happens to imports 80% of their oil is absolutely ridiculous. If all that oil was made available to Canada first. What would that do for the cost of oil for Canada and Canadians? What's good for the US has to be good for Canada. I propose we pass a similar law requiring all oil produced in Canada to be made available to Canada FIRST!!! After we get our oil, only then do we export!!!! It's time we stop subsidizing world demand at our/Canadian's expense. By the way Venezula is also an exporter of oil but yet the country is kind enough to provide oil to its citizens at 40 cents a gallon. Yeah, 40 cents a gallon or 5.00 a gallon? Spread the word about this US law and tell your politicians you want a similar law. Sorry bub. We signed a trade deal that says Oil & Natural Gas goes to the US. Supported by all Canadian Governments since Mulroney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Obviously you are an american spy, a forein national on a Canadian Forum, or you work for the oil company. Tell you what let's pass the law and worry about imaginary trade laws later. If the US can have a law requiring all oil be available for the US to use then so can we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Obviously you are an american spy, a forein national on a Canadian Forum, or you work for the oil company. Margrace? That you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Tell you what let's pass the law and worry about imaginary trade laws later. If the US can have a law requiring all oil be available for the US to use then so can we. Be careful what you wish for....Canada imports nearly 1,000,000 bpd, and lacks the refining capacity and distribution networks for all domestic consumption. It's not just about gasoline.....there are many other distillate products consumed in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Be careful what you wish for....Canada imports nearly 1,000,000 bpd, and lacks the refining capacity and distribution networks for all domestic consumption. It's not just about gasoline.....there are many other distillate products consumed in Canada. The fact is we export oil, period. If refining is all that stands in the way to 40 cents a gallon gasoline bring it on. Hmmmm, refining our own oil??? Would that not create more good high paying jobs for Canadians. Why should everyday hardworking Canadians subsidize world demand for oil. We get our oil first, if there is any left over, then the world will get what it gets at whatever price. Surely, you would not feed your neighborhood before feeding your own family would you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 The fact is we export oil, period. If refining is all that stands in the way to 40 cents a gallon gasoline bring it on. Hmmmm, refining our own oil??? Would that not create more good high paying jobs for Canadians. Why should everyday hardworking Canadians subsidize world demand for oil. We get our oil first, if there is any left over, then the world will get what it gets at whatever price. Surely, you would not feed your neighborhood before feeding your own family would you?? Your example of venuzuelans paying 40 cents overlooks a harsh reality. The venuzuelan gov't subsidizes the price of gasolene. To that we can say any nation, exporter of importer can have 40 cent gasolene......just like one of the poorist countries in the americas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 ....Canada is an exporter of oil, yet we are paying more for our gas at the pump than the US who happens to imports 80% of their oil is absolutely ridiculous. If all that oil was made available to Canada first. What would that do for the cost of oil for Canada and Canadians? I don't think it would lower your prices. Since the oil companies want to make big bucks, if they had an even smaller consumer base, I really don't think lowering their prices would make sense profit-wise, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) I propose we pass a similar law requiring all oil produced in Canada to be made available to Canada FIRST!!!Absurd. The government gets a piece of the action when the oil is pumped out of the ground. After that it belongs to the company/investors that paid for equipment/materials/people used to get the oil out of the ground to market and they are entitled to sell it to the highest bidder. If the government wants to help Canadians deal with price of fuels it should do so by cutting taxes or through existing programs which are partially paid for by royalities paid on oil. Edited July 15, 2008 by Riverwind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Your example of venuzuelans paying 40 cents overlooks a harsh reality. The venuzuelan gov't subsidizes the price of gasolene. To that we can say any nation, exporter of importer can have 40 cent gasolene......just like one of the poorist countries in the americas... Newsflash!!! China is subsidizing gasoline, India is subsidizing gasoline, and the list goes on. If the US can have a law requiring all oil produced in the US be available to the US for US use, then so can we. If China and India and countless other countries can subsidize the cost of gas then so can we. The political powers of Canada think they are clever by "embracing multiculturism." Since 1980, Canada's population has grown threw immigration from 20 million to about 33 million. To have anyone in Canada agree on anything from religion, values/principles, politics, and ideas in general is certainly an uphill battle. Canada operates in a way of total disregard for the "individual". Napoleon conquered Europe through divide and conquor. It appears Canada's politicians have conquered Canadians through divide and counquer as well. I suspect the detractors of this thread are card carrying liberals or conservatives waiting for your time to feed at the trough, oink, oink. Who is Canada looking out for Canadians or the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Newsflash!!!China is subsidizing gasoline, India is subsidizing gasoline, and the list goes on. If the US can have a law requiring all oil produced in the US be available to the US for US use, then so can we. If China and India and countless other countries can subsidize the cost of gas then so can we. Why should my taxes subsidize someone else's driving? The rest of your p[ost has nothing to do witrh the topic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I don't think it would lower your prices. Since the oil companies want to make big bucks, if they had an even smaller consumer base, I really don't think lowering their prices would make sense profit-wise, do you? Hmmm, American woman? A US spy on a Canadian Forum?? If domestic drilling of oil does nothing for oil prices then why are the US politician's interested in drilling in Alaska and encouraging more offshore oil drilling? Why does the US feel the need to have the law requiring all oil produced in the US be made available for US use. Repeal the law and have all oil produced in the US be put on the world market. I doubt the US politicians will do that. If the US can have this law then so can Canada. If all the oil produced by Canada had to be made available for Canada to use before export, this would collapse the price of oil within Canada. The Canadian Market would be saturated with an over supply of oil. The supply to Canada would outstrip Canadian demand by so much it would force the price of oil down!!!! That is the reality of supply and demand. Once Canadians have gotten their fill of oil, then the world can get the oil at whatever price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hmmm, American woman? A US spy on a Canadian Forum?? Yep. That's me. I'm a spy, and you're obviously a troll super intelligent new member. Sorry, but I won't be wasting my time reading your response beyond what I quoted above ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Why should my taxes subsidize someone else's driving?The rest of your p[ost has nothing to do witrh the topic.... Ahh, if you work for the oil industry, the government, or any public service your wages are blood money. You are a parasite to the rest of the economy. Your money is not earned but stolen and cheated out of Canada. I am not sure who in their right mind would defend high pump prices if there was a way push them down. Those who speak against this thread are likely American, work for the government in some capacity, the oil industry, or is a politician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Yep. That's me. I'm a spy, and you're obviously a troll super intelligent new member. Sorry, but I won't be wasting my time reading your response beyond what I quoted above ... Yeah, cry us a river of oil. This thread is about enacting the same law as the US. A law requiring all oil produced in the US be made available for US use. In our case A law requiring all oil produced in Canada be made available for Canadian use. After the law is put into place, let the market forces take care of the rest. Once upon a time there used to be a concept known as dumping which was illegal. Dumping is when you sell into a foreign market at a lower price than what you sell it at home. Hmmm, we pay 5.00 dollars a gallon, the Americans pay about $4.00. That looks like dumping to me. This copycat US law would turn that table right around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ahh, if you work for the oil industry, the government, or any public service your wages are blood money. You are a parasite to the rest of the economy. Your money is not earned but stolen and cheated out of Canada. I am not sure who in their right mind would defend high pump prices if there was a way push them down. Those who speak against this thread are likely American, work for the government in some capacity, the oil industry, or is a politician. My dad saw the begining of the collapse of Soviet Russia...no not the recent one...the begining was in about 1933..He said that the work force was about 10% and the bureacrats (non-productive) work force were the rest!...Then he watch Stalin's five year plan for abundant food turn to poop. A person working the incorporated farm did not work very hard...so they gave an incentive (bonus) --- The guy driving the tractor instead of putting the blade of the plow down a foot, he put it down three inches so he could go faster and make more money. Dad said they all did this and crops failed...YEP we have corporate parasites the produce nothing other than act as bean counters for the slaves in China...the whole thing will collapse and righfully so...nothing worse than rewarding the lazy and persecuting the industrious and creative...at least I will be ready - most won't because most are parasites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) Hmmm, we pay 5.00 dollars a gallon, the Americans pay about $4.00. That looks like dumping to me. This copycat US law would turn that table right around. Actually, we're paying more than $4 a gallon; I paid $4.29 here today to be exact. But you do realize you pay a lot higher taxes in Canada than we do in the U.S., right?-- That a bigger portion of your price per liter is taxes? Look at the prices without the taxes if you want a true comparison. But that "copycat US law" would likely do nothing to lower the prices in Canada. As I already pointed out, why would oil companies be willing to sell at lower prices to a smaller consumer base? Edited July 16, 2008 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Actually, we're paying more than $4 a gallon; I paid $4.29 here today to be exact. But you do realize you pay a lot higher taxes in Canada than we do in the U.S., right?-- That a bigger portion of your price per liter is taxes? Look at the prices without the taxes if you want a true comparison. But that "copycat US law" would likely do nothing to lower the prices in Canada. As I already pointed out, why would oil companies be willing to sell at lower prices to a smaller consumer base? A short time ago, the Winnipeg Free Press ran a story comparing prices before and after tax. US prices are .10 less before tax for some reason. European prices are higher than Canadian prices before tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Actually, we're paying more than $4 a gallon; I paid $4.29 here today to be exact. But you do realize you pay a lot higher taxes in Canada than we do in the U.S., right?-- That a bigger portion of your price per liter is taxes? Look at the prices without the taxes if you want a true comparison. But that "copycat US law" would likely do nothing to lower the prices in Canada. As I already pointed out, why would oil companies be willing to sell at lower prices to a smaller consumer base? If such a law has no benefit why does the US have it in place. Sorry, I don't see why Canadians should be subsidizing world gas prices/consumption. Such a law would require all oil be sold to Canadians First. Your right, we can't trust the Oil Companies. So all oil produced will have to go to an independent storage entity. This entity will be in charge of ensuring Canadian refiners get access to the oil first at the demand to be accessed by polling drivers and gas retailers. CANADIANS FIRST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ahh, if you work for the oil industry, the government, or any public service your wages are blood money. You are a parasite to the rest of the economy. Your money is not earned but stolen and cheated out of Canada. I am not sure who in their right mind would defend high pump prices if there was a way push them down. Those who speak against this thread are likely American, work for the government in some capacity, the oil industry, or is a politician. Ahhh.....so you really don't know much about the subject then? Can yiou expkain why subsidizing gas is nore important than building roads or funding helathcare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Once upon a time there used to be a concept known as dumping which was illegal. Dumping is when you sell into a foreign market at a lower price than what you sell it at home. Hmmm, we pay 5.00 dollars a gallon, the Americans pay about $4.00. That looks like dumping to me. This copycat US law would turn that table right around. Again it seems that your superficial understanding of the topic has failed you. Those prices you float are gross....take away the taxes from the US and Canadian gross figures and you have near parity. Canadians pay more because there are higher taxes and levies on the litre than the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowhere Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ahhh.....so you really don't know much about the subject then?Can yiou expkain why subsidizing gas is nore important than building roads or funding helathcare? What roads? Oh we had a road recently built in Ontario, the 407 which charges twenty cents km to use. Coincidently, the same politicians that shafted Ontario on that one are now apart of the Federal Conservatives. Yeah, Canada is real good hands. Don't pretend the politicians are using the tax money to benefet Canadians in general. They are not. They funnel the money to all their buddies and special interest groups. China and India subsidize gas prices for its citizens. This drives up world gas prices. Venezula and other oil producing countries look after their own requirements first. The Best Canada can do is exploit, cheat and repress Canadians with this debauched democracy. I see how you roll. You are definately a card carrying liberal or conservative. How's that tax raping salary treating you? Oh and that nice pension after six years in office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I understand what you are saying BUT, when you have a PM that is connected to the oil and gas and when gas and oil is probably giving money to the Conservative Party, why would you want to bring in a law that could hurt the shareholders, which are also politicans?? The rich dont care about the price of gas its only hurting the low and middle-incomers. What some low and middle incomers should do is come up with a good new concept for fuel and hurt the oil and gas in their pocket book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I understand what you are saying BUT, when you have a PM that is connected to the oil and gas and when gas and oil is probably giving money to the Conservative Party, why would you want to bring in a law that could hurt the shareholders, which are also politicans?? The rich dont care about the price of gas its only hurting the low and middle-incomers. What some low and middle incomers should do is come up with a good new concept for fuel and hurt the oil and gas in their pocket book! Take a drive out to Western Canada west of the Red River. People who would be low income earners are doing well because of jobs in the oil patch which are related to high gas prices. The amount of jobs the oil industry provides is crucial to the Canadian economy. Without the oil industry in Canada we would be worse off than the U.S. right now. The oil industry also pays taxes which are funnelled to fund Eastern Canada's socialist paradise. Don't like high gas prices, start walking or riding a bike. Or we can be smart and by shares in publically traded Canadian oil companies and make some money to offset the gas prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Yeah, cry us a river of oil. This thread is about enacting the same law as the US. A law requiring all oil produced in the US be made available for US use. In our case A law requiring all oil produced in Canada be made available for Canadian use. After the law is put into place, let the market forces take care of the rest. What are you going to do with all the excess production, which wouldn't even exist were it not for the American market and American/foreign capital. The US actually exported Alaskan crude to Asia for many years up until about 2000. Once upon a time there used to be a concept known as dumping which was illegal. Dumping is when you sell into a foreign market at a lower price than what you sell it at home. Hmmm, we pay 5.00 dollars a gallon, the Americans pay about $4.00. That looks like dumping to me. This copycat US law would turn that table right around. There are many things that the US has and you don't....this is one of them. Better check out NAFTA too: What Does NAFTA Say About Energy Exports? Canada’s trade in energy products with the United States and Mexico is governed by the rules found in Chapter 6 of NAFTA, “Energy and Basic Petrochemicals.” The scope of NAFTA Chapter 6 is such that it includes virtually all forms of energy, ranging from uranium to fossil fuels to electricity. Only a handful of energy products, none of them significant, are exempt. There are four specific clauses within NAFTA Chapter 6 that directly or indirectly affect Canada’s ability to restrict exports: Article 603(2) prohibits the use of minimum or maximum export-price requirements in cases where restrictions on the volume of exports are prohibited. Article 604 explicitly prohibits NAFTA members from imposing any export tax or duty on the sale of energy or petrochemical products, unless the same tax is placed on all NAFTA members, including the exporting party. Article 605 outlines the conditions under which Canada can restrict energy exports. It can do so only if all of the following conditions apply: -exports as a percentage of total Canadian supply do not fall; -Canada cannot charge a higher price to the United States or Mexico by means of taxes, licence fees, minimum prices or any other regulation; and -any restriction cannot result from a disruption of normal supply channels. -Article 607 outlines four specific national security-related scenarios under which energy exports could be restricted: to fulfil a defence contract or supply a military establishment; -to respond to a situation of armed conflict; -to implement policies related to the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons; and -to respond to threats of disruption in the supply of nuclear materials for defence purposes. These four clauses apply only to Canada and the United States. Mexico reserves the right to control its own energy industries in most cases and is explicitly exempt from the provisions of Articles 605 and 607. http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/...s/prb0633-e.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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