Israel attack on Iran "unavoidable"

[DogOnPorch]

This is for DOP, who just doesn't seem to believe that Israel has nuclear weapons!

I have said no such thing. However, you are free to show me one of these Israeli nuclear weapons. What I'm on about is that these are apparently original nuclear weapons that have never been tested. So do they work? Who knows? There's a reason the US, Russia France, UK, Pakistan, India, NK...et al test weapons. It's not just to show off.

BTW: You never answered my questions re: Do you support Iran's quest for the Atomic Bomb? If so...why? If not...what do you propose we do about Iran and nuclear weapons?

I'm used to you avoiding the important questions, though.

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I've been through the desert on a horse with no name...

---America

[Remiel]

I would ask, what do you think the full meaning of " the strategy of colonialism " is?

[jbg]

I would ask, what do you think the full meaning of " the strategy of colonialism " is?

To make the rest of the world safe from barbarians.

[Remiel]

Your snarky comments add nothing to this conversation, jbg.

[GostHacked]

I have said no such thing. However, you are free to show me one of these Israeli nuclear weapons. What I'm on about is that these are apparently original nuclear weapons that have never been tested. So do they work? Who knows? There's a reason the US, Russia France, UK, Pakistan, India, NK...et al test weapons. It's not just to show off.

BTW: You never answered my questions re: Do you support Iran's quest for the Atomic Bomb? If so...why? If not...what do you propose we do about Iran and nuclear weapons?

I'm used to you avoiding the important questions, though.

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I've been through the desert on a horse with no name...

---America

France had tested the design for them. Since France worked with Israel on nuclear weapons, there could have been an agreement that testing does not take place in Israel. It would take place in France, or out in the ocean. I am talking about before the ban on ocean nuke testing. Israel has had the benefit of using existing technology and improving on it to a certain extent. (Patriot Missle Batteries). Anyways the testing does not have to happen in the host country. If Israel had developed one on their own and tested it on their own, then the world would know about it. Many countries around the world have the equipment to monitor those siesmic activities. The US can detect a nuke going off in China, those vibrations are hard to ignore when you have the right equipment. So if this kind of shock happened in Israel, you can be sure that many would know about it.

Do you support Israel having a nuclear weapon? If so... why? If not, what do you propose we do about it?

OH, and to let you know, I have never seen an American nuke either. They are all stuffed into silo's with much much protection. I have not seen any of Russia's eiither, or India, Pakistan, North Korea... Iraq.

Don't forget that the US had only tested one bomb before destroying Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Today, you can run a plethora of computer simulations to test nuclear scenarios. So this could take care of the need to actually test one.

[DogOnPorch]

France had tested the design for them. Since France worked with Israel on nuclear weapons, there could have been an agreement that testing does not take place in Israel. It would take place in France, or out in the ocean. I am talking about before the ban on ocean nuke testing. Israel has had the benefit of using existing technology and improving on it to a certain extent. (Patriot Missle Batteries). Anyways the testing does not have to happen in the host country. If Israel had developed one on their own and tested it on their own, then the world would know about it. Many countries around the world have the equipment to monitor those siesmic activities. The US can detect a nuke going off in China, those vibrations are hard to ignore when you have the right equipment. So if this kind of shock happened in Israel, you can be sure that many would know about it.

Pure speculation without a shred of evidence to back up your wild claims. You know little about the subject and it shines through with your every comment. Keep in mind, I told you about being able to detect nuclear detonations. BC-2004 went on to inform you of the Vela system. This is what I assume, anyways as you didn't seem to know about that or nuclear weapon shelf-life before we mentioned it.

Do you support Israel having a nuclear weapon? If so... why? If not, what do you propose we do about it?

What nuclear weapons?

OH, and to let you know, I have never seen an American nuke either. They are all stuffed into silo's with much much protection. I have not seen any of Russia's eiither, or India, Pakistan, North Korea... Iraq.

Here's some examples then. Enjoy. :

Castle Bravo (US):

Joe 4 (USSR):

Grapple (UK): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLFRIiflSgU

Test #6 (Red China):

Toucan (France): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwMbD5_NMD4

Smiling Buddha (India): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635tO3mJ2vo

Chagai (Pakistan): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfRw5u-WwSU

?????? (Israel): your link here

Don't forget that the US had only tested one bomb before destroying Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Today, you can run a plethora of computer simulations to test nuclear scenarios. So this could take care of the need to actually test one.

Really? Care to provide a link for this bit of astonishing information re: computer simulation replacing nuclear testing? Note that this apparent software must be available to the Israelis in the time period claimed for Israel's apparent nuclear weapon development....circa 1970, say...1975 on the outside.

(Cricket...cricket...cricket...)

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A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right.

---Thomas Paine

[Oleg Bach]

So did the market roar its approval or its fear?

A roar is not fear. Did you mean "did the market wimper it's fear?' All seems about terror personally and globaly...looks like cowardice is the new brave. Still I wonder what this middle east thing is all about? This on going middle east situation is boring me to death. It reminds me of having a friend that you serve - that you are loyal and kind too - a friend that you risk your life liberty and security in order to protect...YET this friend this Israel, if it got down to the crunch...and WE unchoosen ones were up against the wall - they would not give a damn for us...so that makes us common fools...I say sink or swim and if I had my way - I would gather a force from all over the world and invade Israel and ALL Arab nations and create a The United State Of Shem. As for the attack on Iran being unavoidable..well that is a bunch of crap...one severly wrong move by Iran to harm Israel would mean the nuking of Iran by Israel..

WHAT IS REALLY UNAVOIDABLE IS THE WEAPONS DEALERS WORLD WIDE NEED A WAR AND ISRAELS PRIME PURPOSE IN THE REGION IS TO GENERATE MONEY FOR THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX...Forget this Jewish state and our warm hearted benevolence for this money maker called Israel...I will not profit by such a war and neither will you.

[sharkman]

I just read some musing in today's National Post on the matter, and a study by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy suggests that hitting Iran's oil exporting capacity would do more damage to the regime than going after nuclear targets. Oil revenues account for 75% of the Iranian government's income and 80% of export revenues. They say such a strike could force Iran to rethink it's nuclear stance. Personally, I doubt that, and I think it would be seen as a low blow, but what do I know.

The Post article also mentions that Iran moved to acquire Russian manufactured SA-20 SAM missile batteries to protect their nuclear sites. This may pressure Israel to attack before these missile systems come on line. Israeli assessments suggest Iran could have nuclear weapons by the end of 2008 or mid 2009. They have been stockpiling BLU-109 bunker buster bombs for the past 4 years.

Not surprisingly, the US intelligence community insists that Iran stopped weapons research in 2003. After being beat about the face and neck repeatedly by the US media after the Iraq WMD mistake, I don't think they'd be willing to find anything wrong with Iran, North Korea, China or anyone else.

Sorry, couldn't immediately find a link.

[DogOnPorch]

Good point. Interesting and quite possible. Atomic bombs are expensive...if one doesn't have the money to build one...one is out of luck, I suppose. However, I also imagine that since we're thinking about it, some Iranians might also get that same lightbulb over their heads and move some SAMs back to the oil fields.

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It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it.

---Douglas MacArthur

[Remiel]

And what do you think hitting their oil exporting capacity is going to do to the oil importing capacity of the rest of the world? That is not a cheap option at all.

[WIP]

And what do you think hitting their oil exporting capacity is going to do to the oil importing capacity of the rest of the world? That is not a cheap option at all.

No kidding! But fortunately we can trust the Bush Administration to make sure that an air war against Iran won't cause a complete shutdown of oil exports from the Persian Gulf and cause a complete meltdown of the global economy! It's a good thing we have wise leaders in Washington who have secured the world from terrorism and stopped Bin Laden from achieving this strategic goal in 2001:

Fears, Again, of Oil Supplies at Risk

By NEELA BANERJEE

Published: October 14, 2001

''If bin Laden takes over and becomes king of Saudi Arabia, he'd turn off the tap,'' said Roger Diwan, a managing director of the Petroleum Finance Company, a consulting firm in Washington. ''He said at one point that he wants oil to be $144 a barrel'' -- about six times what it sells for now.....................Most Western politicians and oil industry experts say they believe assurances from the Middle East that oil supplies will stay stable as the American-led attacks on terrorist groups continue.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A9679C8B63

I'm glad that never happened! Thank you George for preserving the international oil supply - the life blood of the world economy! With the good job you did protecting the world from terrorism, I guess we can trust you and your advisers, when you say that Iran is developing a nuclear weapons program that threatens global security, and your team will be able to eliminate this threat before the end of your term in office without disrupting the oil supply! Based on your prior success in office, we can put our complete trust in you now -- http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07...07fa_fact_hersh

[bush_cheney2004]

No kidding! But fortunately we can trust the Bush Administration to make sure that an air war against Iran won't cause a complete shutdown of oil exports from the Persian Gulf and cause a complete meltdown of the global economy! It's a good thing we have wise leaders in Washington who have secured the world from terrorism and stopped Bin Laden from achieving this strategic goal in 2001:

You don't have any leaders in "Washington", but we'll leave the light on for 'ya.

[Topaz]

The citizens of NA have to be reminded that those lawmakers in Ottawa or Washington, do so, and their decisions also profit themselves. How many politicans are raking in the oil profits? How many are making money from the war? I just read the other day, where McCain's wife, is a big investor in Busch beer company and they supply the miltary with water, and non-alcohol drinks, she made 100 million from it. We know that the Bush family are profiting from the war and from the oil prices. I believe the US will always be at war because it makes money.

[bush_cheney2004]

The citizens of NA have to be reminded that those lawmakers in Ottawa or Washington, do so, and their decisions also profit themselves.

What happened to Mexico City...capital of Mexico?

How many politicans are raking in the oil profits? How many are making money from the war?

Not nearly as many compared to the citizens of Canada, USA, and Mexico.

I just read the other day, where McCain's wife, is a big investor in Busch beer company and they supply the miltary with water, and non-alcohol drinks, she made 100 million from it. We know that the Bush family are profiting from the war and from the oil prices. I believe the US will always be at war because it makes money.

Sounds good to me.....poverty sucks.

[WIP]

You don't have any leaders in "Washington", but we'll leave the light on for 'ya.

George Bush still thinks he's the leader! That's why he plans to carry out an Iran Attack before the end of the year, if Obama is elected president:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07...ct_hersh/?yrail