Study on native drug users brings elder to tears

[jbg]

This article represents a start to facing up to brutal facts that must be changed, but as usual white people get the brunt of the blame. Excerpts below (link).

Study on native drug users brings elder to tears

'No, no more. This has to stop,' panel member says about cycle of sexual and substance abuse among young aboriginals

MARK HUME

From Friday's Globe and Mail

May 16, 2008 at 4:49 AM EDT

VANCOUVER — A new public health study that looked at more than 500 young aboriginal drug users in two British Columbia cities produced such shocking data that people wept openly when it was first presented to a panel of elders.

"That was really painful for us," Patricia Spittal said of the Cedar Project research team, which reported to a native panel before releasing the results today.

The study found that nearly half of the aboriginal young people who were using injection and non-injection drugs in Vancouver and Prince George had previously been victims of sexual abuse.

The median age of first sexual abuse was six years.

****************

Dr. Spittal recalled one elder looking at the data and, with tears streaming down her face, saying: "No, no more. This has to stop."

Dr. Spittal said the problem of sexual abuse in native communities has its roots in the residential school system, which created a generation of victims who in turn found victims of their own. She said it has created a cycle of abuse that is destroying young lives through violence, suicides and substance abuse.

"I think we have to understand why kids and young people use drugs. They don't use drugs because it's fun, many kids use drugs because they are in pain. This is one way that we're seeing the impact of multigeneration trauma in native communities," she said.

[eyeball]

This article represents a start to facing up to brutal facts that must be changed, but as usual white people get the brunt of the blame.

So they should.

the problem of sexual abuse in native communities has its roots in the residential school system

"White people" in other words. Look around the planet, just about everywhere that Europeans pulled this sort of shit on indigenous people, resulted in a destabalizing culture shock that will likely resonate for generations. That was the whole point of doing it.

[DangerMouse]

So they should.

"White people" in other words. Look around the planet, just about everywhere that Europeans pulled this sort of shit on indigenous people, resulted in a destabalizing culture shock that will likely resonate for generations. That was the whole point of doing it.

I agree! It's not a wonder some whites will try to deny the reality...colonalization had huge impacts as well as residential schools. Yes gentle white readers, your ancestors did some nasty things just so you can live nicely today...in order to get the land they had to commit acts of murder, arson, squatting, rape of women, and child molestation...no onder you have to lie about your history..at least the natives have culture and songs, you have Bart Simpson, booze, drugs, and Take Me Out To The Ballgame

[geoffrey]

"White people" in other words. Look around the planet, just about everywhere that Europeans pulled this sort of shit on indigenous people, resulted in a destabalizing culture shock that will likely resonate for generations. That was the whole point of doing it.

I'm sure no one in Canada would complain if they went back to starving to death and dying of disease every few years. I mean, all the technology we brought was worthless.

Yet I see them driving trucks and living in houses, not tipis. Hmmm....

[eyeball]

If those who used tipis went back to living in them it would indicate they'd probably taken up their nomadic ways again. I can't think of anything that would piss of white people more than allowing other people to just wander about the wilderness living off the fat of the land and camping-out wherever and whenever they please.

[DogOnPorch]

If those who used tipis went back to living in them it would indicate they'd probably taken up their nomadic ways again. I can't think of anything that would piss of white people more than allowing other people to just wander about the wilderness living off the fat of the land and camping-out wherever and whenever they please.

Yeah...typus, cholera and death at the ripe old age of 30 is a real cool way to live. We called it the Stone Age.

DM: I agree! It's not a wonder some whites will try to deny the reality...colonalization had huge impacts as well as residential schools. Yes gentle white readers, your ancestors did some nasty things just so you can live nicely today...in order to get the land they had to commit acts of murder, arson, squatting, rape of women, and child molestation...no onder you have to lie about your history..at least the natives have culture and songs, you have Bart Simpson, booze, drugs, and Take Me Out To The Ballgame

This wasn't the USA with its Indian Wars. Many American tribes escaped to the safety of Canada...as did black slaves and numerous other refugees through time. In BC, so-called Indian wars were more Indians slaughtering settlers and road/railway workers while they slept...then looting and stealing everything in sight. The Chilcotin 'War' being a prime example. Very brave...but you do gotta love how the Indians were paid-off to the tune of $50,000 for being 'charged with murder' rather than 'waging war'. As for native culture and song: when one of your people produces something like Bach, Mozart or Pink Floyd rather than that horrible wailing...let me know.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.

---Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

[DrGreenthumb]

I'm sure no one in Canada would complain if they went back to starving to death and dying of disease every few years. I mean, all the technology we brought was worthless.

Yet I see them driving trucks and living in houses, not tipis. Hmmm....

That is one of the most disgusting things I have ever read on this forum. What kind of animal would wish death and disease on his fellow man?

[CANADIEN]

That is one of the most disgusting things I have ever read on this forum. What kind of animal would wish death and disease on his fellow man?

One could argue that your posting insults animals otherwise I agree.

[CANADIEN]

First Nations should look at themselves for a solution to their problems. Not to deny the huge cost of racist government policies. Not to say that the treaty they signed in good faith should not be honoured. It is just that, as demonstrated by some of the postings here, there are too many people who will not even recognize their dignity as human beings.

[Remiel]

I am unwilling to pass judgement on the quality of traditional native music as a whole, because I suspect that the best of it was probably lost in the colonial era.

If you look at the history of how things went, particularly it was Europeans who have been behind much of the imperialism that has caused much suffering in the world. But to say that Europeans are some kind of unique scourge upon the human race is to fail to realize that everything that was done by Europeans would have been done by ANY other civilization that had been in the same position of power. That is not to excuse Europeans either, but without understanding the problem there can be no overcoming it.

Before the age of imperialism, Europeans were doing the same thing to each other, and I bet dollar to a dime that if you had accurate historical records of every other region on Earth with advanced civilizations, they were probably doing the exact same thing. You can include the Aztecs, Mayans and Inca in that. While they may not have been as technologically advanced as Europe, the Middle East and Asia, they certainly had empires, and were thus in a prime position to be imperialists.

I think that we do need to come to some sort of solution that involves natives having semi-autonomous control over more substantial lands, within Canada. And more respect for their culture and language. It was only after I read a book by Taiaiake Alfred (Peace, Power, Knowledge, I think) that I truly began to understand how *I* was being deprived by the lack of my own native language, Scots Gaelic, and that it change from something I'd like to learn to something I must learn. But I am in no way interested in the kind of capitulation that many want or try to justify through old agreements that were written in circumstances far different than we have today. There is no special rule for native Canadians saying that all prior agreements with them must be adhered to by the letter to a degree that would not be feasible between any other groups. For instance, if Britain suddenly pulled out a contract from 1649 saying that they own Denmark, Denmark is not going to magically become a British territory. There is no such thing as the Law, a supreme and unchanging guide for behaviour that overrules everything else, unless perhaps you subscribe to some kind of Divine Law. But that is far outside the kind of temporal issue we are addressing here.

Edited May 17, 2008 by Remiel

[Borg]

So they should.

"White people" in other words. Look around the planet, just about everywhere that Europeans pulled this sort of shit on indigenous people, resulted in a destabalizing culture shock that will likely resonate for generations. That was the whole point of doing it.

Hilarious!

So personal responsibility is not the issue - the white man is to be blamed for everything?

I needed that laugh - thank you so much.

I wonder what colour your sky is?

Smoked any crack lately?

Indian problems start and finish right here - lack of personal responsibility and crooked leadership.

it is always someone elses fault.

Borg

[Borg]

That is one of the most disgusting things I have ever read on this forum. What kind of animal would wish death and disease on his fellow man?

I am relatively certain this was a sarcastic comment taken as serious - time for a valium?

Borg

[Wild Bill]

As for native culture and song: when one of your people produces something like Bach, Mozart or Pink Floyd rather than that horrible wailing...let me know.

Just out of curiousity, did the north american natives develop any musical instrument more advanced than the drum?

Just about every other primitive culture, including the Inca, developed pipes and other wind instruments. The Africans developed those little boxes with the metal strips tuned to different notes that you play with your thumbs.

All I ever remember seeing with American and Canadian natives is drums and vocal chants. What's more, although I can understand that they may not follow the same scale of notes as european music many of the chanters seem to have no concept of a musical key at all!

Perhaps someone could enlighten...

[AngusThermopyle]

As for native culture and song: when one of your people produces something like Bach, Mozart or Pink Floyd rather than that horrible wailing...let me know.

And don't forget The Bee Gees!

WB: Now you mention it I can't recall seeing or hearing anything but drums, pretty crude drums. In all honesty, to the best of my knowledge I don't know if they developed wind or string instruments. If they did then they couldn't have been very good since non seem to be used today, or they just didn't develop an understanding of music at that level.

You posed an interesting question, virtually all races and cultures have developed sophisticated forms of music, many of them distinct but equally good. Personally I really like some of the African Tribal music. The harmonies are amazing and the rythmes are perfect, those guys just "get it" naturally. European culture has also produced some of the most enduring and perfect compositions, as someone mentioned, Mozart, Bach, etc. etc. I also like Irish music, another bunch who knew how to use wind and percussion and strings coupled with beautifull vocals.

Isn't it rather strange that the music bug never really seemed to hit North America when it was pretty much universal everywhere else in the world. In all fairness though, you have to admit that Indian music isn't really that great, I'm just not a big fan of Sitar solo's. On the other hand Indian music does use more advanced instruments than percussive ones, it does have structure and flow, so even though I personally don't like it, it does qualify as a more evolved form of music.

For most people music is nothing more than entertainment, a non visual singing TV sort of thing. If you look a little deeper though, you realize that music is tied to the higher functions of the brain, this is where it gets interesting. Are the different musical abilities of different races dependant on race? Or are cultural and environmental influences more influential?

All in all an interesting subject, thanks for bringing it up.

[Topaz]

No matter how the the non-natives feel about the First Nation, we do have to take some of the responsibility of what has become of these people. Both, the English and the French treated this people with no respect and it still goes on today from individuals. I like to see anyone of you who are so down on the First Nation to go live their lives and perhaps wouldn't be fast to judge. They need help and we should give it if asked for and then maybe we can wipe out the drugs from their lives.

[Oleg Bach]

No matter how the the non-natives feel about the First Nation, we do have to take some of the responsibility of what has become of these people. Both, the English and the French treated this people with no respect and it still goes on today from individuals. I like to see anyone of you who are so down on the First Nation to go live their lives and perhaps wouldn't be fast to judge. They need help and we should give it if asked for and then maybe we can wipe out the drugs from their lives.

There are first nations guys selling crack to withered former white Christians..they look upon the customers the same way as a hunter peers down on a deer from a tree stand. Having said that...I have made friends with some of the natives that wander about. Some are highly intelligent..some are not..just like us..I treat them with respect. Respect is the transphere of power! Even if a native smells like he has a litre of alcholic mouth wash in his gut..I still send respect...and you know what. The RESPECT ME. This is the civilized Christian appoach to the problem. For most the problem lies in the fact that whites in authority treat natives like n***ers..and I have noticed those people treat whites the same. Those in power are NOT better human beings than the natives..Once they realize that - the problem will be solved.

[bk59]

...

So personal responsibility is not the issue - the white man is to be blamed for everything?

...

Indian problems start and finish right here - lack of personal responsibility and crooked leadership.

it is always someone elses fault.

We have Aboriginal leaders clearly saying that they must address the issues of sexual abuse, drug abuse and suicide that plague Aboriginal communities, and yet some of you want to accuse Aboriginal leaders of not taking any responsibility? Maybe we should encourage the leaders who are brave enough to address the issues, rather than spout rhetoric that implies these issues are the fault of Aboriginals and that the rest of society should not get involved.

It is quite clear that many of these issues are exacerbated by the residential school system forced upon Aboriginal people. Before blaming Aboriginals for not taking personal responsibility maybe we should accept our own share of personal responsibility for the situation. When considering the residential school system, I think perhaps non-Aboriginals are more to blame for many of these problems than "crooked leadership" or "lack of personal responsibility".

How ironic that Borg's post, which seems to blame only Aboriginal peoples for their problems, ended with the line "it is always someone else's fault". If only Borg had applied the logic to everyone, and not just Aboriginal leaders. Both Aboriginals and non-Aboriginals share responsibility for where we are right now. Both must be involved to try to fix the problem.

[Oleg Bach]

We have Aboriginal leaders clearly saying that they must address the issues of sexual abuse, drug abuse and suicide that plague Aboriginal communities, and yet some of you want to accuse Aboriginal leaders of not taking any responsibility? Maybe we should encourage the leaders who are brave enough to address the issues, rather than spout rhetoric that implies these issues are the fault of Aboriginals and that the rest of society should not get involved.

It is quite clear that many of these issues are exacerbated by the residential school system forced upon Aboriginal people. Before blaming Aboriginals for not taking personal responsibility maybe we should accept our own share of personal responsibility for the situation. When considering the residential school system, I think perhaps non-Aboriginals are more to blame for many of these problems than "crooked leadership" or "lack of personal responsibility".

How ironic that Borg's post, which seems to blame only Aboriginal peoples for their problems, ended with the line "it is always someone else's fault". If only Borg had applied the logic to everyone, and not just Aboriginal leaders. Both Aboriginals and non-Aboriginals share responsibility for where we are right now. Both must be involved to try to fix the problem.

That's so liberal "taking personal responsiblity" Boy oh boy is that typical liberalistic reversal of reality. Crooks like to use this term. (no offence) . Has anyone ever considered that you should not except personal blame IF THINGS GET DONE TO YOU!

Take poverty for instance when a family falls from grace..it is usually following an attack by competators. Usually it's intergenerational. Natives got screwed literally by our rober barrons and that is a fact..and their family was so damaged that they may never recover from the economic-spiritual-cultural- sexual attack!

[AngusThermopyle]

and their family was so damaged that they may never recover from the economic-spiritual-cultural- sexual attack!

Given that what you say is true then it stands to reason that they must evolve, not physically but socially. Given that we know evolutionary theory has been shown to be accurate in the vast majority of cases to which it has been applied would it not stand to reason that what we are experiencing now is no more than a blip on the evolutionary scale? A period of change and upheaval on a socially quantifiable scale?

Yet another example of evolution, societal evolution, the model can be applied to all aspects of our lives.

[Oleg Bach]

Given that what you say is true then it stands to reason that they must evolve, not physically but socially. Given that we know evolutionary theory has been shown to be accurate in the vast majority of cases to which it has been applied would it not stand to reason that what we are experiencing now is no more than a blip on the evolutionary scale? A period of change and upheaval on a socially quantifiable scale?

Yet another example of evolution, societal evolution, the model can be applied to all aspects of our lives.

I am suspect of the idea of us evolving. We may have it in reverse. Those closest to harmonizing with nature are the more evloved to begin with..Untill we accept the fact that the blue eyed wolf that was the Anglo - that for the most part was a cunning preditor and hunted the natives like sheep...well..point being - I believe the native was already highly evolved and we force him into de-evolution..It was us that were savage...once we get that straight we might all evolve together. You can not become right until you admit you are wrong..we were wrong..when we entered into north america it was us that were the inferiour human beings not them! They rarely hunted humans..we justified hunting them stating publically that they were sub-humans..this attitude still persists..eg..Former Priemier Harris..."Get those f**ing Indians out of that park" - That says it all..also - I know of a man of great influence and he insists that the social ills at the Jane-Finch corridor are due simply to the fact they are black (inferiors) - and he from what I gather appoints judges..we have a problem..It may not be the natives that need evolution.

[AngusThermopyle]

I am suspect of the idea of us evolving. We may have it in reverse. Those closest to harmonizing with nature are the more evloved to begin with..Untill we accept the fact that the blue eyed wolf that was the Anglo - that for the most part was a cunning preditor and hunted the natives like sheep...well..point being - I believe the native was already highly evolved and we force him into de-evolution..It was us that were savage...once we get that straight we might all evolve together. You can not become right until you admit you are wrong..we were wrong..when we entered into north america it was us that were the inferiour human beings not them! They rarely hunted humans..we justified hunting them stating publically that they were sub-humans..this attitude still persists..eg..Former Priemier Harris..."Get those f**ing Indians out of that park" - That says it all..also - I know of a man of great influence and he insists that the social ills at the Jane-Finch corridor are due simply to the fact they are black

Sorry Olegh but I have to disagree with you. if you understand evolutionary theory it does not state at any time that desirable results will occur. In fact the theory postulates that many "variations" will arise and fail before a viable "variation" will be produced. This is basically how evolution works, it comes back to Darwins "survival of the fittest" precept, one that has not been disproven or discredited to this date.

it was us that were the inferiour human beings not them! They rarely hunted humans..

This is just sheer nonsense. If they were so inferior how did White Anglos ever develope the technology to cross Atlantic? I can't say for sure but I'm pretty certain they didn't just paddle across in Birch Bark canoes.

As for the old saw about

They rarely hunted humans

what a crock of shit! They behaved in basically the same manner as all humans have behaved within our understanding of Human Evolution.

[Oleg Bach]

Sorry Olegh but I have to disagree with you. if you understand evolutionary theory it does not state at any time that desirable results will occur. In fact the theory postulates that many "variations" will arise and fail before a viable "variation" will be produced. This is basically how evolution works, it comes back to Darwins "survival of the fittest" precept, one that has not been disproven or discredited to this date.

This is just sheer nonsense. If they were so inferior how did White Anglos ever develope the technology to cross Atlantic? I can't say for sure but I'm pretty certain they didn't just paddle across in Birch Bark canoes.

As for the old saw about what a crock of shit! They behaved in basically the same manner as all humans have behaved within our understanding of Human Evolution.

Now you are stating that technolgy (to cross the Atalantic) is a superiour thing..just listen to the average idiot on a cell phone and you tell me if tech is a superiour force saving the world...I am not impressed with tech. Morality and ethics have never kept up with technology in the distant past present or future. The highly evolved folks on those old wooden ships had greed and conquest on their minds..that is not evolved. Also you are suddenly an applogist for evolution in saying that you don't always get the desired results. It depends on what you desire does it not..either good results or nasty.

[Wild Bill]

Now you are stating that technolgy (to cross the Atalantic) is a superiour thing..just listen to the average idiot on a cell phone and you tell me if tech is a superiour force saving the world...I am not impressed with tech. Morality and ethics have never kept up with technology in the distant past present or future. The highly evolved folks on those old wooden ships had greed and conquest on their minds..that is not evolved. Also you are suddenly an applogist for evolution in saying that you don't always get the desired results. It depends on what you desire does it not..either good results or nasty.

I'm in my 8th week of recovery after a quadruple heart bypass. I'll take the white man's technology, thank you!

If I had had to depend on native shaman medicine, I would have been dead years ago.

And don't give me any crap that eating pemmican would have kept my arteries clear and native food would have kept me disease-free, hale and hearty till I died peacefully in the arms of Manitou on my 100th birthday!

Incidently, there was a native american in my ward who had the same operation. He too was grateful for the white man's technology. So was his family, come to think of it. Just like mine!

Edited May 18, 2008 by Wild Bill

[Oleg Bach]

I'm in my 8th week of recovery after a quadruple heart bypass. I'll take the white man's technology, thank you!

If I had had to depend on native shaman medicine, I would have been dead years ago.

And don't give me any crap that eating pemmican would have kept my arteries clear and native food would have kept me disease-free, hale and hearty till I died peacefully in the arms of Manitou on my 100th birthday!

Hope you recover and have quality..nothing worse than life extention that creates suffering and continues to occupy and enrich the medical guys. Actually if we lived in a more natural manner instead of this artifical high tech one - food included. You probably would not have clogged up. You ate to much..where as a natural man wandering about exercising ate just enough to stay alive.. I am sure you are thankful to the good doctors but - you should not have ended up sick to begin with. So if you got down to the nitty gritty..what and who would you depend on to save your butt in the future ...God or Tech? Personally I respect tech to some degree but not 100% . It's imperfect...and I would put my life in the hands of the great turtle in the sky....I have seen doctors that are less than barbaric shamans..you are lucky you got one with talent.

[AngusThermopyle]

Now you are stating that technolgy (to cross the Atalantic) is a superiour thing..just listen to the average idiot on a cell phone and you tell me if tech is a superiour force saving the world...I am not impressed with tech. Morality and ethics have never kept up with technology in the distant past present or future. The highly evolved folks on those old wooden ships had greed and conquest on their minds..that is not evolved. Also you are suddenly an applogist for evolution in saying that you don't always get the desired results. It depends on what you desire does it not..either good results or nasty.

Technology is a perfect example of evolution, it does not necessarily improve anything but it does introduce factors that influence its continueing viability as a vindication of evolution. in answer to your question about the technology required to cross the Atlantic (at any time of the year). Yes, it took a highly evolved civilisation to learn the knowledge required to do that. If you aren't a sailor I suppose you will never really understand it but the Oceans are our all powerfull creationists. They can either transport you or take your life, they do both efortlessly, if your advanced guys have done their homework -properly and not forgotten anything, you'll make it across safely.

This has nothing to do with "Mythical spirituality" and everything to do with us amazing creatures and our obidience to the natural laws of evolution.