Bill C-51

[margrace]

Mr. Clement owns a large amount of shares in a Drug company. He doesn't give a darn about you and me.

[SoccerDad]

Well hello to you too, but you got the wrong guy.

I think you meant Argus since this is my first and only post in this thread.

Many humble apologies!! I guess it's time for new glasses!

[DrGreenthumb]

Mr. Clement owns a large amount of shares in a Drug company. He doesn't give a darn about you and me.

Clement should not be allowed to work as health minister while he holds stock in any pharma company, it is a blatant conflict of interest. The government has no right to dictate what we may consume, unless they claim ownership of us. Do the conservatives think they own us?

[Alta4ever]

Clement should not be allowed to work as health minister while he holds stock in any pharma company, it is a blatant conflict of interest. The government has no right to dictate what we may consume, unless they claim ownership of us. Do the conservatives think they own us?

Wow......what outrage, I guess you had nothing to say about the problems with the Chinese toys at christmas because the government has no right to regulate what you can consume. What would your story have been if you had gotten very sick after eating spinage last summer.

[eyeball]

soccerdad: having actually read through chunks of Bill C51, it is disgusting , and reeks of caving to big pharma, some of the language in it looks as if it could be aimed at people who even gather their own herbs and use them on themselves.

the powers granted to confiscate are frightening.

Yep. I can sell you kelp powder, empty capsules and instructions on how to fill them and with how much but if I fill the capsules for you I could go to jail.

It is amazing to note the responses from the "conservatives", but not surprising, as they cry for ever bigger nanny governments to keep them safe, and allow themselves, nay beg, to have their own choices restricted to those that serve the interests of big big business, and not them.

As I said above my MP is a Conservative, Dr. James Lunney. C-51 was first initiated during the Liberals watch which is when Dr Lunney and I had a good talk about this very subject. We were out on a boat at the time so I had the opportunity to show him some of the spots where I collect kelp and explained how this new proposed legislation could affect me. All he could do was shake his head and as I recall our conversation was peppered with lots of rolling eyes and disdainful comments about the Nanny state.

At our all candidates meeting before the last election I had the opportunity to ask him again about the issue of natural health products and he was still rolling his eyes and declaring that this was the sort of government intrusion into our lives typical of the Liberal candidate sitting beside him.

Of course a few minutes later Dr Lunney was promising everyone how hard his government would be sicking Nanny on the proliferation of grow-ops on Vancouver Island. The Liberal beside him said his party would decriminalize marijuana.

Now we have the Conservatives tabling C-51 and the Liberals...

[kuzadd]

Yep. I can sell you kelp powder, empty capsules and instructions on how to fill them and with how much but if I fill the capsules for you I could go to jail.

As I said above my MP is a Conservative, Dr. James Lunney. C-51 was first initiated during the Liberals watch which is when Dr Lunney and I had a good talk about this very subject. We were out on a boat at the time so I had the opportunity to show him some of the spots where I collect kelp and explained how this new proposed legislation could affect me. All he could do was shake his head and as I recall our conversation was peppered with lots of rolling eyes and disdainful comments about the Nanny state.

At our all candidates meeting before the last election I had the opportunity to ask him again about the issue of natural health products and he was still rolling his eyes and declaring that this was the sort of government intrusion into our lives typical of the Liberal candidate sitting beside him.

Of course a few minutes later Dr Lunney was promising everyone how hard his government would be sicking Nanny on the proliferation of grow-ops on Vancouver Island. The Liberal beside him said his party would decriminalize marijuana.

Now we have the Conservatives tabling C-51 and the Liberals...

I'll totally agree with your earlier contention that the Liberals and Conservatives are the same.

I vote for anyone but them in hopes neither of them will form a majority government.

Off topic , but has anyone noticed, allegedly we have 3 "left of centre" parties in Canada, and the conservatives, still can't win? Just an observation.

Anyway C-51, will do nothing to address the problem of contaminated prescription drugs, or tainted meat, IMO, what it seems to be is a way to limit people from making their own choices, and giving a free hand to large multinational companies, to continue on their merry way of using ethelyne glycol in cough syrup, coating pills with paint, tainted heparin. Since most of this garbage is manufactured in China.

Can you really imagine Health Canada doing anything about that?

I can't.

This is clearly aimed at smaller manufacturers, especially those making herbal formulations, like I said , it looks as if , it is possible even if you gather your own herbs and make your own teas, tinctures whatever, an individual could be subjected to arrest, confiscation, incarceration, etc.

And yes the "conservatives" were quick to rail on the nanny state when it was the liberals, but now the biggest ninnying nanny of them all is quiet, on the interference of even bigger state government.

Upon reading C51 I think local farmers, who sell products at markets , may be subjected to arrest, reading the part about "made only in sanitary conditions", ya know like mass manufactured meds , or KFC where I got food poisoning from myself. But, I have bought lovely home made jams, from the farmers and have never had an issue.

4. No person shall sell or import for sale a food that

(e) was manufactured, processed, prepared, preserved, packaged, stored or conveyed under unsanitary conditions.

which means the local peach or cherry person who makes pies or jams could get in big trouble, if their Kitchen is deemed "Unsanitary", and who is the decider , how is the standard set??

I don't want to eat toxic food, but like I said, given that I got food poisoning at a local KFC,which is still open for business, and eaten plenty of market jams and baked goods????

This is picking on the little guy to the benefit of the big guy.

Cause it's always easier to pick on the little guy.

Like the case I mentioned previously

Edited May 6, 2008 by kuzadd

[Dutchman9]

Under Dion, the Liberals and Conservatives have effectively merged. There is really NO opposition. NO counterbalance.

Which is why it's imperative we vote Green or NDP next election.

Also, even though I'm not a Libertarian, why can't the Ron Paul express influence politics north of the border ? It would be nice to have the right side of the spectrum influenced by something other than destructively oblivious Neo-Conservative insanity.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Dutchman9

[DrGreenthumb]

Under Dion, the Liberals and Conservatives have effectively merged. There is really NO opposition. NO counterbalance.

Which is why it's imperative we vote Green or NDP next election.

Also, even though I'm not a Libertarian, why can't the Ron Paul express influence politics north of the border ? It would be nice to have the right side of the spectrum influenced by something other than destructively oblivious Neo-Conservative insanity.

Voting NDP makes sense, but voting green is kind of a waste of time. The greens do not and will not have even one MP, so it makes no sense to vote for a party that will not even get to vote on bills before parliament. The greens really have nothing to offer anyway that the NDP are not already providing. At least the NDP can be counted on to consistently vote against the conservatives and their neverending quest to give the state more power. I used to vote conservative because I thought they were about SMALLER government and LESS power to the state but it has become more than obvious that these conservatives are AUTHORITARIAN, paternalistic scum who want to control every aspect of Canadians lives. We need to get rid of them as soon as possible. Vote for Layton's NDP, Jack is the only one fighting for the the priorities of ordinary Canadians. It's time for a change, a real change, no more Liberal/Conservative governments that are just more of the same corruption/eliteism.

[margrace]

I'll totally agree with your earlier contention that the Liberals and Conservatives are the same.

I vote for anyone but them in hopes neither of them will form a majority government.

Off topic , but has anyone noticed, allegedly we have 3 "left of centre" parties in Canada, and the conservatives, still can't win? Just an observation.

Anyway C-51, will do nothing to address the problem of contaminated prescription drugs, or tainted meat, IMO, what it seems to be is a way to limit people from making their own choices, and giving a free hand to large multinational companies, to continue on their merry way of using ethelyne glycol in cough syrup, coating pills with paint, tainted heparin. Since most of this garbage is manufactured in China.

Can you really imagine Health Canada doing anything about that?

I can't.

This is clearly aimed at smaller manufacturers, especially those making herbal formulations, like I said , it looks as if , it is possible even if you gather your own herbs and make your own teas, tinctures whatever, an individual could be subjected to arrest, confiscation, incarceration, etc.

And yes the "conservatives" were quick to rail on the nanny state when it was the liberals, but now the biggest ninnying nanny of them all is quiet, on the interference of even bigger state government.

Upon reading C51 I think local farmers, who sell products at markets , may be subjected to arrest, reading the part about "made only in sanitary conditions", ya know like mass manufactured meds , or KFC where I got food poisoning from myself. But, I have bought lovely home made jams, from the farmers and have never had an issue.

4. No person shall sell or import for sale a food that

(e) was manufactured, processed, prepared, preserved, packaged, stored or conveyed under unsanitary conditions.

which means the local peach or cherry person who makes pies or jams could get in big trouble, if their Kitchen is deemed "Unsanitary", and who is the decider , how is the standard set??

I don't want to eat toxic food, but like I said, given that I got food poisoning at a local KFC,which is still open for business, and eaten plenty of market jams and baked goods????

This is picking on the little guy to the benefit of the big guy.

Cause it's always easier to pick on the little guy.

Like the case I mentioned previously

Yes we picked up some KFC food several years ago and there was rotten chicken in it. We did not complain, we just told everyone we knew about it and Neve have been back in one since.

[kuzadd]

Yes we picked up some KFC food several years ago and there was rotten chicken in it. We did not complain, we just told everyone we knew about it and Neve have been back in one since.

God, I was sick, dizzy, nauseated, horrid.!!

It had to have been the chicken sandwich.

I even returned the salad, didn't touch it,as it stunk to high heaven.

But hey they are still in business and no I do not buy thier food at all.

But, I had the most delicious jam,(cherry rum) from a local farmer, who BTW stakes their entire livelihood, on the quality of their product. Unlike KFC.

Edited May 6, 2008 by kuzadd

[White Doors]

I think this is great legislation. About time. I was shocked to see that we did not have this, especially after the pet food fisaco last year. Guess who makes your 'natural' home remedies? yep, come from China too.

This is to protect the people that can be hurt by this unregulated industry.

About time they play by the same rules.

[eyeball]

I think this is great legislation. About time. I was shocked to see that we did not have this, especially after the pet food fisaco last year. Guess who makes your 'natural' home remedies? yep, come from China too.

This is to protect the people that can be hurt by this unregulated industry.

About time they play by the same rules.

I harvest and manufacture my product right here in Canada. My small home-based plant is inspected by the province and governed by CFIA rules. The new rules will now require me to shell out many tens of thousands of dollars in new inspection, registration, licencing, testing and labelling costs etc etc. I simply can't afford this and am being forced out of business as a result. These new rules are crippling thousands of other small home-based business' across North America many which also prepare their products from materials right here.

Even more "natural" home remedies will be coming from China soon. They should rightly be called un-natural corporate remedies because that is what this is all about, shifting production away from small business to large and these days that means...China . This legislation will only help China.

You've been duped into feeling shocked and great about the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

[Argus]

I harvest and manufacture my product right here in Canada. My small home-based plant is inspected by the province and governed by CFIA rules. The new rules will now require me to shell out many tens of thousands of dollars in new inspection, registration, licencing, testing and labelling costs etc etc. I simply can't afford this and am being forced out of business as a result. These new rules are crippling thousands of other small home-based business' across North America many which also prepare their products from materials right here.

Even more "natural" home remedies will be coming from China soon. They should rightly be called un-natural corporate remedies because that is what this is all about, shifting production away from small business to large and these days that means...China . This legislation will only help China.

You've been duped into feeling shocked and great about the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

What would you suggest as an alternative? Let anyone market whatever they want under whatever label they want, without regard to truth of claims or even whether the right drugs or chemicals are in the pills? Much of our Vitamin C now comes from China. Vitamins, dietary suppliments, "herbal remedies". When granny takes her fiber pills is it really fiber or is it the scrapings of some factory floor in China? Do we not need someone to be able to tell what it is people are ingesting?

[kuzadd]

What would you suggest as an alternative? Let anyone market whatever they want under whatever label they want, without regard to truth of claims or even whether the right drugs or chemicals are in the pills? Much of our Vitamin C now comes from China. Vitamins, dietary suppliments, "herbal remedies". When granny takes her fiber pills is it really fiber or is it the scrapings of some factory floor in China? Do we not need someone to be able to tell what it is people are ingesting?

I see , so the solution is to oppress and shutdown local manufacturing and individuals, so that people are forced to buy more crap from china that health canada will do ZERO about.

Great solution.

[White Doors]

What would you suggest as an alternative? Let anyone market whatever they want under whatever label they want, without regard to truth of claims or even whether the right drugs or chemicals are in the pills? Much of our Vitamin C now comes from China. Vitamins, dietary suppliments, "herbal remedies". When granny takes her fiber pills is it really fiber or is it the scrapings of some factory floor in China? Do we not need someone to be able to tell what it is people are ingesting?

exactly.

How do we know eyeball is not doing the same thing?

There needs to be standards in this area and it is a way overdue. Sorry if I say screw the 'small businessman' on this one in the interests of not having another pet food fiasco with humans.

[White Doors]

I see , so the solution is to oppress and shutdown local manufacturing and individuals, so that people are forced to buy more crap from china that health canada will do ZERO about.

Great solution.

cite?

The pharma companies operate under even stricter rules and regulations and one of the biggest in the world is in Canada. Actually, make that two if you include Alberta in Canada.

As usual, your logic is non-exitent.

[Fain]

That's not "Bill C-51" it's someone's summary of it and they've added in their own bias to it. How bout some objectivitity and give us the Bill C-51 word for word.

[Topaz]

I think this is great legislation. About time. I was shocked to see that we did not have this, especially after the pet food fisaco last year. Guess who makes your 'natural' home remedies? yep, come from China too.

This is to protect the people that can be hurt by this unregulated industry.

About time they play by the same rules.

I understand were you are coming from but have you ever heard of the company "Jamesion"? Check them out on the net, its a Canadian company for many years located in Windsor On. I always buy Canadians first and and I also checked them and their products out first before using and they are a good company.

[SoccerDad]

That's not "Bill C-51" it's someone's summary of it and they've added in their own bias to it. How bout some objectivitity and give us the Bill C-51 word for word.

Ask and you shall receive! Read closly and you'll find that "summary" version is not too far off the mark.

Bill C-51

[DrGreenthumb]

I think this is great legislation. About time. I was shocked to see that we did not have this, especially after the pet food fisaco last year. Guess who makes your 'natural' home remedies? yep, come from China too.

This is to protect the people that can be hurt by this unregulated industry.

About time they play by the same rules.

Again, I do not need protection from inanimate objects like foods, vitamins, supplements or drugs from your Harper-Daddy. I can damn well decide for myself what products I will choose to buy and how I will freakin use them.

What are you so afraid of? People have existed for thousands of years on this planet without these kind of fascist laws, and survived just fine. This law makes it illegal to gather herbs for one's own use. This violates every human being's natural right to ALL THE PLANTS THAT GROW ON THIS EARTH! This makes me so angry I could spit! Who do these conservative arseholes think they are? What right do they think they have to control every aspect of our friggin lives including what we may eat? Free country? Yeah whatever. Just don't ask me to go to your wars to defend my "freedom". assholes.

[M.Dancer]

Again, I do not need protection from inanimate objects like foods, vitamins, supplements or drugs from your Harper-Daddy. I can damn well decide for myself what products I will choose to buy and how I will freakin use them.

So I guess then that people, like those who died using over the counter weight loss products have no one to blame but themselves.

What are you so afraid of? People have existed for thousands of years on this planet without these kind of fascist laws, and survived just fine.

Thousands? Well if you don't count the influenza epidemics, black plagues and other assorted natural events....

This law makes it illegal to gather herbs for one's own use.

No it doesn't. Pewrhaps when the buzz wears off you can read the law.

[SoccerDad]

Again, I do not need protection from inanimate objects like foods, vitamins, supplements or drugs from your Harper-Daddy. I can damn well decide for myself what products I will choose to buy and how I will freakin use them.

What are you so afraid of? People have existed for thousands of years on this planet without these kind of fascist laws, and survived just fine. This law makes it illegal to gather herbs for one's own use. This violates every human being's natural right to ALL THE PLANTS THAT GROW ON THIS EARTH! This makes me so angry I could spit! Who do these conservative arseholes think they are? What right do they think they have to control every aspect of our friggin lives including what we may eat? Free country? Yeah whatever. Just don't ask me to go to your wars to defend my "freedom". assholes.

Good post Dr. Pretty much sums my point of view as well....

[M.Dancer]

Good post Dr. Pretty much sums my point of view as well....

And how about backing up your over the top out to lunch claims while you're here....

[SoccerDad]

So I guess then that people, like those who died using over the counter weight loss products have no one to blame but themselves.

Thousands? Well if you don't count the influenza epidemics, black plagues and other assorted natural events....

No it doesn't. Pewrhaps when the buzz wears off you can read the law.

1) There is a simple solution to these types of problems. Please read my post on page 2ish of this thread. And before you counter with "well those folks wouldn't have died if the product was not available", then by extension we should remove Tylenol from the shelves 'cause those folks didn't get was was on the label either...

2) Doesn't count, not even apples to apples

3) I read it, all 62 wonderfully wasted pages...you can bet it does!

Edited May 6, 2008 by SoccerDad

[SoccerDad]

And how about backing up your over the top out to lunch claims while you're here....

*grin*, over the top and out to lunch? You had best read C-51 thoroughly my friend...