RCMP raids Tory party headquarters

[BubberMiley]

I am more intrigued about the fact that both the Liberal Party and the media were notified about the raid beforehand. Is it usual practice for Elections Canada or the RCMP to invite political parties or journalists with cameras when they are obtaining documents by force?

Nope, and, again, provide a source that they were invited beforehand. Or is this another pathetic attempt to deflect attention from the CPC's illegal activity?

[DrGreenthumb]

Loophole? MD, you have a very naive view of politics and the law if that's how you view this.

The Conservatives have done nothing illegal. The campaign finance law allows them to do what they did. And if I understand properly, the purpose was not to obtain taxpayer funds but rather to use the maximum limits on campaign spending.

And MD, if you take the big picture view of this, is it right that the State should limit who can or cannot spend money advertising during an election campaign? At present in Canada, an individual is not free to advertise in support of a political position during an election campaign.

-----

I am more intrigued about the fact that both the Liberal Party and the media were notified about the raid beforehand. Is it usual practice for Elections Canada or the RCMP to invite political parties or journalists with cameras when they are obtaining documents by force?

This charade has all the makings of an insider's Ottawa silly intrigue.

Dobbin, that RCMP investigation concerned leaks about changes to income trusts and the budget. It appeared that insider information was leaked to traders presumably for kickbacks of some sort.

This investigation of the Liberals followed a much larger scheme to funnel millions of taxpayer dollars to advertising friends who then shovelled some of the money back to the federal Liberal Party as donations.

The current dispute between Elections Canada and the CPC is not at all comparable. It's noteworthy that all political parties do what the CPC does - but Elections Canada only investigates the CPC. If that's not enough to make people wonder, the use of two RCMP officers is the other tip off that this is all about politics and show.

I guess the CPC stands for Corrupt Party of Canada. Cheating and breaking all the rules to try and buy an election seems pretty serious to me.

We need strong election laws like we have to prevent corrupt groups like the CPC from buying their way into power. We have spending limits so that the very rich minority that votes for very corrupt parties like the CPC cannot use their very deep pockets to fleece the public into believing their lies with fancy tv ads. The CPC spent over a million dollars more than they were legally allowed to spend to BUY this minority government. HMM, a million dollar crime should warrant a mandaTORY minimum sentence, what's Harper going to do for a year in prison?

[margrace]

Harper thought if he got in and appointed all his own people that, like good little obedient dogs, they would do as they are told. In this and with Hilliar he found out differently. This is how democracy is supposed to run isn't it? Harper is a class A bully.

[August1991]

The CPC spent over a million dollars more than they were legally allowed to spend to BUY this minority government.

Do you really believe that a politician can buy an election in the manner you suggest?

By your logic, Steve Forbes should be president and Mitt Romney should be the Republican candidate.

Apparently, I have more faith in ordinary voters than you do. You seem to believe that we need a paternalistic State to protect us.

------

As to this specific issue, all the political parties do this in one form or another. It just goes to show that when the State starts trying to limit what people can do, there are inevitable problems and difficulties. DrGreenthumb, you should surely disagree with teh State's arbitrary power to limit certain activities.

[scribblet]

Loophole? MD, you have a very naive view of politics and the law if that's how you view this.

The Conservatives have done nothing illegal. The campaign finance law allows them to do what they did. And if I understand properly, the purpose was not to obtain taxpayer funds but rather to use the maximum limits on campaign spending.

------

I am more intrigued about the fact that both the Liberal Party and the media were notified about the raid beforehand. Is it usual practice for Elections Canada or the RCMP to invite political parties or journalists with cameras when they are obtaining documents by force?

This charade has all the makings of an insider's Ottawa silly intrigue.

It was mentioned on the news that the Liberals where there with cameras at the first, they had to know it was going to happen.

You are correct that it isn't taxpayer's money, it is conservative money from donors, used for conservative campaigns. Part of the tab for all parties for local candidates is picked up by the taxpayers thanks to Chretien's funding arrangement. The 'in and out' arrangement is common, used by all parties at some time. The issue was taken up by the CPC to clear up a ruling by Elections Canada, and so far there is no law broken.

The legal issue is really one of defining clearly local ad versus a national ad.

[White Doors]

We need strong election laws like we have to prevent corrupt groups like the CPC from buying their way into power. We have spending limits so that the very rich minority that votes for very corrupt parties like the CPC cannot use their very deep pockets to fleece the public into believing their lies with fancy tv ads. The CPC spent over a million dollars more than they were legally allowed to spend to BUY this minority government. HMM, a million dollar crime should warrant a mandaTORY minimum sentence, what's Harper going to do for a year in prison?

The liberals were the party that got the rich donations in the last 15 years. The Conservatives traditionally got small donations from many people.

[White Doors]

We need strong election laws like we have to prevent corrupt groups like the CPC from buying their way into power. We have spending limits so that the very rich minority that votes for very corrupt parties like the CPC cannot use their very deep pockets to fleece the public into believing their lies with fancy tv ads. The CPC spent over a million dollars more than they were legally allowed to spend to BUY this minority government. HMM, a million dollar crime should warrant a mandaTORY minimum sentence, what's Harper going to do for a year in prison?

The liberals were the party that got the rich donations in the last 15 years. The Conservatives traditionally got small donations from many people.

[jdobbin]

I am more intrigued about the fact that both the Liberal Party and the media were notified about the raid beforehand. Is it usual practice for Elections Canada or the RCMP to invite political parties or journalists with cameras when they are obtaining documents by force?

Citation that they were informed before?

This charade has all the makings of an insider's Ottawa silly intrigue.

Dobbin, that RCMP investigation concerned leaks about changes to income trusts and the budget. It appeared that insider information was leaked to traders presumably for kickbacks of some sort.

And publicly naming Goodale was a political decision according to the RCMP Complaints Commissioner. There was no basis for naming him personally according to the report that was just released.

This investigation of the Liberals followed a much larger scheme to funnel millions of taxpayer dollars to advertising friends who then shovelled some of the money back to the federal Liberal Party as donations.

The current dispute between Elections Canada and the CPC is not at all comparable. It's noteworthy that all political parties do what the CPC does - but Elections Canada only investigates the CPC. If that's not enough to make people wonder, the use of two RCMP officers is the other tip off that this is all about politics and show.

Citation that all parties did this in the last election?

As for the RCMP, since they helped manipulate the last election in favour of the Tories, they kept saying yesterday that they were there art the behest of the Elections Canada.

[sharkman]

Being that the RCMP was only there at the behest of Elections Canada, this was most certainly not an RCMP raid as media outlets across the country claimed.

Not only were the Liberals there at the raid, they brought cameras? That's pretty brazen, and they were obviously tipped off.(Sorry but at last questioning, the Liberals do not admit they were tipped off, they say they went out for a walk to take pictures of ladybugs and happened across this raid just as it was setting up.)

In this matter the Tories are claiming that the national Liberal party has done the same thing, transferring about $1.7-million to its local candidates in the 2006 election and billing them $1.3-million for goods and services provided to them. This is in yesterday's National Post. If this is the case, why is Elections Canada not investigating the Liberals as well?

[DrGreenthumb]

Being that the RCMP was only there at the behest of Elections Canada, this was most certainly not an RCMP raid as media outlets across the country claimed.

Not only were the Liberals there at the raid, they brought cameras? That's pretty brazen, and they were obviously tipped off.(Sorry but at last questioning, the Liberals do not admit they were tipped off, they say they went out for a walk to take pictures of ladybugs and happened across this raid just as it was setting up.)

In this matter the Tories are claiming that the national Liberal party has done the same thing, transferring about $1.7-million to its local candidates in the 2006 election and billing them $1.3-million for goods and services provided to them. This is in yesterday's National Post. If this is the case, why is Elections Canada not investigating the Liberals as well?

Iknow how this works, I'm the vice president of my riding assosiation and well involved in all elections. Elections Canada has very strict rules that we must follow, for very good reasons. It can be a real pain in the ass following these regulations but it ensures a fair election. If elections Canada is only after the CPC(corrupt party of Canada) it is because they are the only ones who have cheated. We are very very careful to follow elections Canada guidelines to the letter, but then we are NDP and not sleazy like the conservative party obviously is.

Another day, another conservative corruption scandal. The only thing I worry about is that the electorate will become too complacent and start accepting the dirty politics of the conservative party. It's even getting hard for ME to get excited at each new conservative party scandal as there seems to be a new one daily. I guess Dion just had to "give them enough rope". The conservatives have been exposed for the liars and cheaters that they are. You conservative supporters should direct your anger at the politicians in your own party that have betrayed your trust by being so corrupt. You will have nobody to blame but Harper and his cronies when Canadians boot the conservatives to the curb and elect majority Liberal governments for the next 15-20 years.

[Canadian Blue]

Iknow how this works, I'm the vice president of my riding assosiation and well involved in all elections.

Jeeze, are you with the GP?

We are very very careful to follow elections Canada guidelines to the letter, but then we are NDP and not sleazy like the conservative party obviously is.

You forgot the Liberal Party, wasn't their some kind of scandal with them in the past.

The only thing I worry about is that the electorate will become too complacent and start accepting the dirty politics of the conservative party.

They've accepted the dirty politics of the LPC for the past 15 years, why should anything change.

I guess Dion just had to "give them enough rope".

Later on he talked about how Canada would get megatonnes of money.

[scribblet]

Did it ever cross anyone's mind that the CPC took Elections Canada to court over their interpretation of the Elections Act on advertising spending and are finding that they (Elections Canada) doesn't have a case. That EC are soon to take the stand and, knowing that they don't have a case, are desperate to find 'evidence', so, in order to save face they order the search (the RCMP didn't order it) and notify the Liberals in order to put the heat on the CPC and not themselves - so they get the opposition to do their smearing for them.

[BubberMiley]

So it's Elections Canada in collusion with the Opposition and (who else?) the RCMP and maybe the media. But still no source indicating the Libs were there before the raid started.

[sharkman]

Iknow how this works, I'm the vice president of my riding assosiation and well involved in all elections. Elections Canada has very strict rules that we must follow, for very good reasons. It can be a real pain in the ass following these regulations but it ensures a fair election. If elections Canada is only after the CPC(corrupt party of Canada) it is because they are the only ones who have cheated. We are very very careful to follow elections Canada guidelines to the letter, but then we are NDP and not sleazy like the conservative party obviously is.

FYI, your leader (Jack Layton) is the sleaziest I've ever seen and an embarrassment to what the NDP once stood for. As to your finances, I suppose it's easier to understand and follow these very strict rules when you are bringing in so little money.

Good point Scriblett, this sounds less like cpc wrong doing and more like Elections Canada hardball.

[M.Dancer]

News of the raid first broke on CBC Newsworld Tuesday and other media quickly arrived on the scene. Liberal staffers from the Liberal research bureau, which is one block away from the Conservative party headquarters, then followed with a video camera to record the event.

Several Conservatives expressed suspicion Wednesday that the media and Liberals were made aware of the raid. Liberals insist they learned of it by watching television. CBC News has not yet said how they became aware of the raid.

“I do find it odd when I look at a photograph as I did this morning, and I see someone knocking on the door with cameras, news cameras present, and to see that there were Liberal party people in the hallway,” said Finance Minister Jim Flaherty.

“I find that very strange indeed. This is I gather some sort of enforcement warranted activity that was being undertaken. In my life as a lawyer in the courts of Canada, I'm not used to the media being along with officers carrying out their duties. It's rather unusual actually.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

Something is fishey....

[DrGreenthumb]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

Something is fishey....

Yes very fishy how these conservatives think they are above the law. Trying to rig elections is nothing new for the Corrupt Party of Canada. The Conservatives were already in trouble for trying to rig the Manitoba elections. See Monin Inquiry. More conservative corruption, no surprise here.

[Rovik]

FYI, your leader (Jack Layton) is the sleaziest I've ever seen and an embarrassment to what the NDP once stood for. As to your finances, I suppose it's easier to understand and follow these very strict rules when you are bringing in so little money.

Really, explain why Layton is sleazy without resorting to name calling, exaggerations and untruths.

[Canadian Blue]

Yes very fishy how these conservatives think they are above the law. Trying to rig elections is nothing new for the Corrupt Party of Canada.

Where did they rig elections Mr. Greenthumb, please cite your sources. As well the investigation had nothing to do with vote rigging.

The Conservatives were already in trouble for trying to rig the Manitoba elections. See Monin Inquiry. More conservative corruption, no surprise here.

Which party are you with again?

[jdobbin]

Did it ever cross anyone's mind that the CPC took Elections Canada to court over their interpretation of the Elections Act on advertising spending and are finding that they (Elections Canada) doesn't have a case. That EC are soon to take the stand and, knowing that they don't have a case, are desperate to find 'evidence', so, in order to save face they order the search (the RCMP didn't order it) and notify the Liberals in order to put the heat on the CPC and not themselves - so they get the opposition to do their smearing for them.

There is that smear again. Typical right wing stuff. Please cite your sources that the Liberals were informed of the search before it happened. Otherwise, your claims are just desperate hot air.

A judge signed a search warrant based on what Elections Canada gave him. The RCMP will not be called in for a criminal investigation unless Elections Canada decides what was done was criminal. They did, however, accompany the federal agency to ensure the warrant was properly executed.

The Tories keep saying that all the parties did the same thing in the last election. Prove it. Or stop making stuff up.

[jdobbin]

Yes very fishy how these conservatives think they are above the law.

Perhaps the Tories can call a public inquiry into all of it.

Otherwise, it is a desperate and sleazy claim they are making based on no proof at all.

[M.Dancer]

Yes very fishy how these conservatives think they are above the law. Trying to rig elections is nothing new for the Corrupt Party of Canada. The Conservatives were already in trouble for trying to rig the Manitoba elections. See Monin Inquiry. More conservative corruption, no surprise here.

Rig elections? Wasn't it only a few months ago that the ndp was forced by the court to issue a public apology in the HoC to the man they defamed in BC during the election forcing himto resign to fight the slander?

yes indeed, NDP party of sleaze.

[DrGreenthumb]

Rig elections? Wasn't it only a few months ago that the ndp was forced by the court to issue a public apology in the HoC to the man they defamed in BC during the election forcing himto resign to fight the slander?

yes indeed, NDP party of sleaze.

i can tell that you are hurt by the conservative sleaze and are just lashing out, its ok, i understand your sorrow. Too bad the conservatives are sleazzy a corrupt party, sorry that's making u bitter.

[M.Dancer]

i can tell that you are hurt by the conservative sleaze and are just lashing out, its ok, i understand your sorrow. Too bad the conservatives are sleazzy a corrupt party, sorry that's making u bitter.

Get back to me when a court orders them to apologise in the HoC.

[Canadian Blue]

Come on guys, Dr Greenthumb doesn't respond well to logic and reason.

By the way Dr Greenthumb can you please tell all of us which party you are with, as well point out any evidence that the Federal Tories ever rigged an election.

[capricorn]

Iknow how this works, I'm the vice president of my riding assosiation and well involved in all elections. Elections Canada has very strict rules that we must follow, for very good reasons. It can be a real pain in the ass following these regulations but it ensures a fair election. If elections Canada is only after the CPC(corrupt party of Canada) it is because they are the only ones who have cheated. We are very very careful to follow elections Canada guidelines to the letter, but then we are NDP and not sleazy like the conservative party obviously is.

Another day, another conservative corruption scandal. The only thing I worry about is that the electorate will become too complacent and start accepting the dirty politics of the conservative party. It's even getting hard for ME to get excited at each new conservative party scandal as there seems to be a new one daily. I guess Dion just had to "give them enough rope". The conservatives have been exposed for the liars and cheaters that they are. You conservative supporters should direct your anger at the politicians in your own party that have betrayed your trust by being so corrupt. You will have nobody to blame but Harper and his cronies when Canadians boot the conservatives to the curb and elect majority Liberal governments for the next 15-20 years.

So, you are involved in all elections working for the NDP...BUT you are hoping a Liberal majority is elected. Such loyalty to one's party and principles. Do you have a reason for having a split mind on which party to support?